Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

[GuamoKun]

Ravens best string with throw immunity is b23 and I think I needed to use it more when I fought tyrant. I tried to fall back to zoning way to much and that wasn't good. Also air teleport to whiff punish swamp hands probably won't work because it has a bit of an air hitbox so it'll grab me out of the air.

I fought Tyrant once with Raven waaaaaaay back in like June and used Raven we went around even because I abused b23 so much...but other than that I tried staying airborne and away from him most of the match.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

I fought Tyrant once with Raven waaaaaaay back in like June and used Raven we went around even because I abused b23 so much...but other than that I tried staying airborne and away from him most of the match.

Abusing b23 was probably what I should have been doing the entire time. There's just no way to zone him.

 

[Sami]

It still doesn't make the MU any easier lol.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Abusing b23 was probably what I should have been doing the entire time. There's just no way to zone him.

Bingo

You can also use teleport to punish a Swamp Hands attempt iirc

Edit:

It still doesn't make the MU any easier lol.

It forces him to actually think before throwing out WC. If he starts canceling it you can wait and punish the cancel or if he keeps doing WC B23 is going to constantly blow him up.

A 4-6 for sure but definitely not the end of the world.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Bingo

You can also use teleport to punish a Swamp Hands attempt iirc

Edit:


It forces him to actually think before throwing out WC. If he starts canceling it you can wait and punish the cancel or if he keeps doing WC B23 is going to constantly blow him up.

A 4-6 for sure but definitely not the end of the world.

Are you sure about teleport to punish swamp hands? Like on read or reaction and air or ground? I'm assuming grounded on read and I can see that working.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Are you sure about teleport to punish swamp hands? Like on read or reaction and air or ground? I'm assuming grounded on read and I can see that working.

Grounded on more of a read yeah

 

[nightw0lf]

Black Adam, Zod, Nightwing(maybe), Aquaman(maybe). There's a few that can dash through and black Adam can also jump to avoid soul crush so he doesn't have to give a flying fuck about her frame traps.

Ill be testing every character in like 10-15 minutes when I'm home.

Edit: well never mind my sister is incapable of hitting forward forward down fast enough and can't react fast enough to the blocked pillar to test this correctly so fuck it. Sorry guys.

Sounds like your sis needs to level up!

 

[Sami]

Bingo

You can also use teleport to punish a Swamp Hands attempt iirc

Edit:


It forces him to actually think before throwing out WC. If he starts canceling it you can wait and punish the cancel or if he keeps doing WC B23 is going to constantly blow him up.

A 4-6 for sure but definitely not the end of the world.

If you're throwing out B23 over and over again then it can be easily reacted to and punished. B23's hits will happen well before the point of not being able to cancel, which gives Grundy an easy WCC into full combo due to the 3's recovery time. Ducky was doing plenty of B23s in one of the match and Tyrant was just dealing with them without breaking a sweat.

 

[OG Mannimal]

So have we decided on Ravens worst matchups yet? I'm thinking flash and grundy are both either 3-7 or very rough 4-6s. Flash has his good, no risk high reward mixups, and grundy has armor and can't be zoned. I struggle the most against these two characters, especially online vs the Flash, as his f2 is really hard to react to IMO.

 

[OG Mannimal]

After playing at a tourney today, I have one question:

WHAT DO I DO AGAINST MARTIAN MANHUNTER AND SHAZAM?!?

Came in 5th btw.

I'm kind of late to answer this but I'm just catching up on this thread, so hopefully I can still help.
MMH: I don't have all the answers vs Martian but I do know some stuff. You can punish the non mb version of his pillar with a reversal soul crush. You can react to his overhead projectile with empty void and mb it for a dash up soul crush. MB b3ing the OH teleport is always an option, or you can dash up afterwards to see what they will do, and if they mb b3 remember that for the next time. Since a lot of MMH players will mb b3 after the OH teleport, go ahead and do f222 as it will be out his b3 every time.
Shazam: I wish you would've specified your problems vs Shazam, but whatever. Anyway, Shazam cannot teleport on Raven, like ever. You can react to his teleport and soul crush and he's taking that damage every time. As for his wake up teleport, he can't do that safely either. You can position yourself so that soul crush will hit if they teleport away from you, and if they teleport behind you, soul crush will autocorrect to lift, and you get a full combo. Once you train him not to tele on wakeup, you get 223 pressure for free which is nice. His 22 mixups are really good, and it's a 50/50 and if you guess wrong you're taking damage. I believe you can mash d1 to trade with his OH charge, and as long as you're crouching, his command grab will not hit you. B23 is easily punished with d1 lift. This MU is pretty heavily in ravens favor IMO. However shazam is one of those characters that you need a lot of experience against so that you don't get bodied. He can be rough if you have no experience against him. If you have any other questions against those characters, feel free to ask. I'm sure there are other people who can help more than I can.

 

[Sami]

Doomsday's wake-up options vs Raven's cross-up setups.

• Air Snatch is not invincible on wake-up lol. Can hit him all day long with jump-ins providing the attack hits early. Too late and the huge grab hitbox on the snatch will win, but the standard jump-in/cross-up setups after knockdown beat Air Snatch.
• Earthshaker has 3 outcomes after ji3: 1) you hit the invincible frames and land in front. You have enough time to block earthshaker. 2) you trade. doomsday is knocked down thanks to ji3. 3) you jump over him with enough time to punish.
• Venom will wiff and put DD far away from you. MB still wiffs
  
• Up Venom will often wiff. MB will add more hits if the move didn't wiff, or will put him further away from you if it wiffs
  
• Supernova almost always wins
• Super wiffs

 

[NoobHunter420]

what do you guys usually do on wakeup?
how do you guys deal with jump ins? other than the obvious spacing and close pillar.
close pillars seems like a good choice, but it takes a lot of balls to do that, especially online.

I feel so helpless against most rush down characters.
for instance as a flash main I don't care for raven's wakeup game, I can easily interrupt most of her wake options.
guessing the 50/50 against flash doesn't sound very appealing.........

 

[Espio]

With Raven I like doing air to air jump attacks for anti-airs like jump 2 or jump 3 sometimes depending can check jump ins.

I also don't think her down 2 is that bad, it's not the greatest but it has a place as part of her anti-air game. There some others too, but they're more spacing/situational I suppose you could say.

Raven's walk speed is really good for spacing and whiff punishing, but Flash is one of her tougher match ups so she's going to have a hard time keeping him out anyway and dealing with his pressure. Flash punishing soul crush from far out distances and not having to really be concerned with her zoning game.


I find myself using pushblock more with Raven than any other character then there's the MB armor option and down 1 to interrupt pressure too.

 

[Sami]

what do you guys usually do on wakeup?

Yep.



For non-ambigious jump-ins then back-dash, D2, pushblock, MB b3 or lift work fine. If it's an ambiguous jump-in as you get off the floor then... yep. Good luck with that.

 

[Jackal904]

guessing the 50/50 against flash doesn't sound very appealing.........

That is generally the best course of action against people who can stuff Raven's wakeups. (which isn't hard at all) Yeah it sucks but you just have to deal with it.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

So despite popular belief, blocking after a knockdown is an option in this game.

 

[VGMtheVagabond]

So despite popular belief, blocking after a knockdown is an option in this game.

Yeah...?

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Yeah...?

Yeah man it's unbelievable. Just block after you get knocked down. I know it's weird but yeah it's an option dude.

 

[Glass Sword]

In the lab and a small tid bit I think I have found is against Catwoman. IF they decide to do the 16 bit special: fullscreen catdash into mb b3 on block. You can stuff it safely with b123 and if they block it there is decent push back so they can't are out of range of the low. f222 whiffs against the b3 and b23 gets stuffed.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

In the lab and a small tid bit I think I have found is against Catwoman. IF they decide to do the 16 bit special: fullscreen catdash into mb b3 on block. You can stuff it safely with b123 and if they block it there is decent push back so they can't are out of range of the low. f222 whiffs against the b3 and b23 gets stuffed.

Awesome. What about if catwoman pokes after full screen mb catdash?

 

[Glass Sword]

Awesome. What about if catwoman pokes after full screen mb catdash?

Your screwed unless you down 1. The low comes out in 10 frames. The only move you have that can beat her d1 is yours. a single d1 will be safe if they mb it, but you still have to block it. If you YOLO lift after the d1 you get stuffed.

 

[Jackal904]

@Blind_Man you said in the last West Coast Warzone podcast that Aquaman (probably) loses to Raven. How? I know that he's free to jump-ins on knockdown but I don't see how that makes up for him having superior footsies, godlike turtling, and the ability to punish Soul Crush.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

@Blind_Man you said in the last West Coast Warzone podcast that Aquaman (probably) loses to Raven. How? I know that he's free to jump-ins on knockdown but I don't see how that makes up for him having superior footsies, godlike turtling, and the ability to punish Soul Crush.

On knockdown Raven gets a cross up 50/50 that leads into itself and it is really fucking ambiguous and retarded. Risk reward when Raven is in trait is in her favor, If aquaman guess wrong after pillar he loses 31%-70% depending on if i go for a 50/50 after pull or just the combo. Footsies are debatable because of lift, ftd doesnt punish soul crush.

 

[Jackal904]

ftd doesnt punish soul crush.

I really have got to stop trusting in-game frame data. Thanks.

 

[OG Mannimal]

Can raven punish scorpions mb teleport?