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Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
It's so annoying when you hit lobo with a meter burn pillar, but the 2nd part of it whiffs cause he's dashing :/
 
On knockdown Raven gets a cross up 50/50 that leads into itself and it is really fucking ambiguous and retarded. Risk reward when Raven is in trait is in her favor, If aquaman guess wrong after pillar he loses 31%-70% depending on if i go for a 50/50 after pull or just the combo. Footsies are debatable because of lift, ftd doesnt punish soul crush.
Can you please go into specifics on the knockdown cross up 50/50 as in exact inputs please?
 

Sami

Noob
Can you please go into specifics on the knockdown cross up 50/50 as in exact inputs please?
It's like the basic Raven cross-up setup. End a combo with a normal into lift (for example, f2~lift) and then ji2/ji3. The normal used and the timing will determining whether the ji2/3 hits front/back, and Aquaman is completely powerless to stop it as his wake-ups are ass. If he does wake-up with something like Trident Rush you just land behind him and can full combo punish. Much like if you get the ji2/ji3 he eats a full combo which ends with another cross-up setup, repeat until win (or he blocks correctly). Even if he blocks correctly, by crossing up with ji2 you can follow up with standing 3 (both hits) to hit confirm the cross-up. If he's in hit-stun, cancel the 3 into lift (you have all the time in the world to do this). If he blocks, don't cancel the 3 and you'll end up at neutral frames.

HOWEVER

The main reason you want to use ji3 is because it nullifies his trait. If you successfully hit him with the ji3 then he's launched off the ground so can't trait out of it. If he gets hit with ji2 he can trait out of the follow-up moves. If his trait is on CD then personally I would use ji2 into 3 for the easier hit confirm, but if he has trait available then it has to be ji3 with super-fast reactions to confirm d1~lift afterwards.

Aquaman may have one of the games best AAs, but that means nothing when you're landing on him as he's getting up off the ground.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Can you please go into specifics on the knockdown cross up 50/50 as in exact inputs please?
Off of f222 lift, raw lift, or d1 lift, or whatever other starter that doesn't mess with the gravity to much you can end the combo in d1 lift and it spaces it so j3 does not cross up and j2 does. In order for it to be like that you need to time the d1 lift and it's kind of hard to time. What can end up happening is whatever jump normal you do will always cross up or will never cross up depending on when you the d1 lift. This is useful on about 1/3 of the cast but most characters have some asterisk next to them because they have some way to mess with the set up. Aquaman is the only character that has no other option but to guess.
 

macro

Eezeepeezee
I've been working very hard on the Nightwing raven matchup as of late.
So i was wondering if you guys had any tips that i might not know of.
Also when i post all the info i have on the matchup and what Nightwing
can do against her i will tag most of you guys into the Nightwing matchup thread.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
So against batgirl, if you end in f2 lift and do a b3 it stuffs bat wheel pretty easily and if you mb b3, I think you have time to punish uppercut with f2. Teleport seems to just whiff and Raven gets nothing.

Oh and the best part about this is it also stuffs delayed wake up cartwheel.

Edit: So actually if she wakes up with her dp it looks like 3 things can happen, she gets hit by the mb b3, the dp goes through the armor, or the dp just whiffs completely. I can't test if it's possible to whiff punish it but I'm assuming a soul crush whiff punish is possible.

Aaaand as for the teleport, it looks like the teleport will either whiff or hit Raven for a combo into vortex.
 
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So against batgirl, if you end in f2 lift and do a b3 it stuffs bat wheel pretty easily and if you mb b3, I think you have time to punish uppercut with f2. Teleport seems to just whiff and Raven gets nothing.

Oh and the best part about this is it also stuffs delayed wake up cartwheel.

Edit: So actually if she wakes up with her dp it looks like 3 things can happen, she gets hit by the mb b3, the dp goes through the armor, or the dp just whiffs completely. I can't test if it's possible to whiff punish it but I'm assuming a soul crush whiff punish is possible.

Aaaand as for the teleport, it looks like the teleport will either whiff or hit Raven for a combo into vortex.
Damn, these are some pretty useful finds. Good work. :D
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
What do you all think of the magic bitch mu?
Raven wins 6-4, Zatanna's zoning is irrelevant because of ravens fwd walk speed + reflect, the reflect isn't really even needed that much but it just makes it even worse for zatanna. Raven outfootsies her badly too. Raven just walks into lift range and zatanna can't do anything. Behind teleport gets punished by d1 lift, away teleport doesn't really do anything because Raven will keep walking fwd. Zatanna's trait is also useless because of crush and Raven can reflect all offensive specials including pillar.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Raven wins 6-4, Zatanna's zoning is irrelevant because of ravens fwd walk speed + reflect, the reflect isn't really even needed that much but it just makes it even worse for zatanna. Raven outfootsies her badly too. Raven just walks into lift range and zatanna can't do anything. Behind teleport gets punished by d1 lift, away teleport doesn't really do anything because Raven will keep walking fwd. Zatanna's trait is also useless because of crush and Raven can reflect all offensive specials including pillar.
Completely agree, although on a read she can tele behind to avoid soul crush/projectile and punish so the risk reward I feel is even when it comes to the tele behind game. Raven can jump at Zatanna all day, j2 and j3 are so hard to d2 as zat. Tbh I think this mu has the potential to be 7-3, or maybe just a really hard 6-4.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Completely agree, although on a read she can tele behind to avoid soul crush/projectile and punish so the risk reward I feel is even when it comes to the tele behind game. Raven can jump at Zatanna all day, j2 and j3 are so hard to d2 as zat. Tbh I think this mu has the potential to be 7-3, or maybe just a really hard 6-4.
There's no reason for Raven to ever throw anything or soul crush, so that mix up game doesn't come into play.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Then what is she doing then?
Walking forward. Her walk speed is retarded. It's the main reason Zatannas zoning is irrelevant. I don't even have to use the reflect. There's no reason for me to risk getting whiff punished with a fireball or crush. Raven just walks in footsie range and there isn't anything zatanna can do about it.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Walking forward. Her walk speed is retarded. It's the main reason Zatannas zoning is irrelevant. I don't even have to use the reflect. There's no reason for me to risk getting whiff punished with a fireball or crush. Raven just walks in footsie range and there isn't anything zatanna can do about it.
Yeah just reread your first post and realised, can't say I disagree. Mind you I think full screen is ok for Zatanna, of course you can reflect but that allows her to get trait into pillars, which isn't massive but at least it's something.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Yeah just reread your first post and realised, can't say I disagree. Mind you I think full screen is ok for Zatanna, of course you can reflect but that allows her to get trait into pillars, which isn't massive but at least it's something.
Full screen means nothing. Like seriously her walk speed is fucking retarded. Zatannas zoning is completely irrelevant and it is impossible to beat Raven by zoning her.
 

Glass Sword

Nobody
I believe what Ducky is saying is Zantaana has to do something nuts to get a knockdown if Raven just stays at the optimal spacing. Zantaana still has all her bs if she gets a knockdown, but it's hard for her to get it therefore 6-4 Raven and not worse.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Yet again, I have another update about the batgirl thing. So if you take a step forward immediately after the lift, then input b3 immediately, it stuffs cartwheel and it's also it useful way to time the b3 easily AND it makes teleport whiff instead of Raven getting hit. However she probably gets a free cartwheel but whatever, much better than eating a teleport

Edit: once again. More great news. Step forward b3 stuffs immediate wake up cartwheel, and immediate wake up teleport. Delayed wake up teleport beats out the b3, it'll whiff punish it. I might've been wrong about the teleport whiffing thing but whatever, we can stuff all her wake ups now. Yay.

Thank you @GGA pimpimjim for this wonderful idea <3
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Completely agree, although on a read she can tele behind to avoid soul crush/projectile and punish so the risk reward I feel is even when it comes to the tele behind game. Raven can jump at Zatanna all day, j2 and j3 are so hard to d2 as zat. Tbh I think this mu has the potential to be 7-3, or maybe just a really hard 6-4.
Now that I'm getting more comfortable with raven I need to actually figure out wtf I'm doing against you lol.