TarkatanDentist
Kombatant
Wow, this guy sounds like he's the Bane of your existence.
The Scorpion MU is hellishly annoying, but no worse than 5-5 IMO.
Wow, this guy sounds like he's the Bane of your existence.
He used trait against scorp? Eww...Shots fired at GGA pimpimjim. Just watched your matches as Raven vs Slips (Scorp) and... god damnit.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/raven-mu-chart.37518/page-5#post-1173945
Read it, practice it, use it, and stop ending combos in B23~4 against Scorpion
True that.
this entire vortex you guys have is backdash/forward dash able.Blind_Man AK Pig Of The Hut Zoidberg747
I really need to the bookmark the post where I explained this
Scorpion can not escape Raven's knockdown/cross-up (jump-in) setups. At all. He has to block correctly or risk being put into a full combo (by risk I mean it will happen the majority of the time, possibly all of the time if people test this out further). This is because Raven can abuse Scorpion's change in hitbox for wake-up teleport as an option select for the follow-up move after jump-in 2. First, lets explain how to input the ghetto option select:
Intro
Raven ends her combo with f22u1/F2~DB2 or any of the other set-ups, walks forward a tiny step to make it properly ambiguous and then goes for a jump-in 2. Just past the height where jump-in 2 would hit a standing opponent, she inputs a normal (3 is the best for this as it's soooooo easy to hit-confirm off it and is safe on block) in the air to buffer it so it comes out the moment she lands. After this, she then holds down forward (in relation to the direction she jumped in) for a moment until the Raven player works out what the outcome was.
Outcome #1: Jump-in 2 misses as Scorpion does wake-up tele-punch/slide/flip kick.
If Scorpion does wake-up teleport punch, wake-up slide or wake-up flip kick, the jump-in 2 will either miss completely or connect with an invincible hitbox AFTER the follow-up normal (3 in this case) has been input. This causes the game to lose the input as it will only buffer it if the jump-in attack hit before 3 was pressed. Thus, when she lands on the ground, no follow-up move will happen.
This is where the "holding forward" part kicks in. Raven's holding forward becomes holding backwards as Scorpion will have switched sides. Thus, she will automatically block the teleport punch standing allowing for maximum punish. Flip kick will miss and you have all the time in the world to react and punish, and slide will do the same (you can punish it as he starts to stand up with a Soul Crush into full combo). I don't know if Raven is left close enough after a MB teleport punch to punish it with 1 or D1 into lift/combo. If she is, then this is a guaranteed punish.
All of these combos lead to another knockdown/cross-up setup whether she has meter or not (all meter will dictate is how much damage she does before putting Scorp into another setup).
Note: I seem to remember you being able to back-dash away if you spot a MB teleport punch rather than just holding block, but don't quote me on it.
Outcome #2: Jump-in 2 hits as Scorpion does wake-up Spear/Hell Fire/normal or blocks incorrectly.
In this scenario, Scorpion will have a standing hitbox. This means that the jump-in 2 hit and the 3 was buffered. Jump-in 2 beats spear and hell fire outright. When Raven lands, the 3 will automatically come out as it was buffered, and you can stop holding forward and cancel 3 into lift and full combo (3 hits twice and has a long active time so you have plenty of time to confirm and cancel into lift. Note that it doesn't matter whether you cancel the first or second hit of 3).
Like outcome #1, all of these combos lead to another knockdown/cross-up setup whether she has meter or not (all meter will dictate is how much damage she does before putting Scorp into another setup).
Outcome #3: Jump-in 2 hits armour as Scorpion does wake-up supermove
The start-up cinematic for the super should begin before jump 2 actually hits. This gives you what, a second and a half for the brain to say "I shouldn't input 3". Jump-in 2 will hit the armour, and she lands in time to block the actual hit of the super. She MAY be able to back-dash on landing to avoid the hit and punish it, but I didn't think to test that when I worked out the tech.
Outcome 4: Jump-in 2 is blocked
The only option (other than super and MB teleport, and those may be punishable if somebody tests it) that doesn't put Scorpion into a full combo and repeat setup. If Scorpion gets too excited and tries to punish the blocked attack there's a good chance he'll be hit by the buffered 3. If he keeps blocking, buffered 3 will come out and the end result will be Raven at +0.
In Conclusion
5-5. Raven needs 1 opening (demon grab, Soul Crush at a pretty close range, one successful jump-in, lift, 6 frame D1, etc) to do 40+% to Scorpion and make him guess right or have him take another 40+%, which he then needs to guess right or take etc etc etc.
I'm not ignoring the grief Scorpion can give Raven in return as she really can't zone (then again, most chars can't against Scorpion). Fortunately she is good enough close-up in this MU to compensate and up close shuts down all of his escape tools.
Oh, this ghetto option select thing should apply to pretty much every character vs. Scorp who can put him into a knockdown/jump-in cross-up situation.
Extra Disclaimer
This was worked out mooooonths ago and patches may have changed it.
As far as I'm concerned the point of that set up is to prevent scorpion from waking up.
I know, but can he not just dash on reaction and basically be at neutral?
That's where I want him.
Agreed, just saying it is not a mixup when it comes to vortex.
not to the jump in, you cant react to the jump in, you need to do it pre emptively if you think shes gonna jump otherwise you will 90% time it wrong and lose your hp.
Qwark I'm now very confused - are you saying Scorp can buffer the back-dash the moment her combo ends so it will be done immediately when he wakes up?
Good good, was fearful this had changed. I'm guessing Harley can get out of it as it treats her command dash like a wake-up attack which can be buffered.
You can buffer dashes when knocked down, try backdashing the vortex, I've been doing it for months.
Then that is not a mixup at all if you must jump at the same exact timing.
Not. I didn't say this setup isn't good, I said a version of it is escapable with good timing, that's all.
That's exactly what I said. You're saying the set up as a vortex is escapable when the purpose isn't a vortex.
I'm saying there are solutions other than blocking the vortex in general. Not in this setup, this setup is very good for this matchup, just saying that the ambiguous crossup is not that ambiguous.