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Match-up Discussion Raven MU Chart

Z

ZalliX

Noob
Sami said:
The thing with rushdown deathstroke is that he has to walk forward. While he does control the point blank range, there's a delicious area where he has to advance you to start his mix-ups and he's just asking to get lifted into full combo. Unlike Frost or Catwoman he has no super-fast advancing move to start his pressure.

At the two extremes of ranges (point blank and full screen) I would say DS has control (less so if Raven is in demon stance at full screen). Raven controls the match at the other ranges, and should DS get in one successful pushblock (yes I know, easier said than done when dealing with overhead/low mix-up openers) will put the match back at Raven's range.

I'd put it 5-5 though.
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Whats to stop him from walking back? And if you try to advance on him he has the same keep away game. I think Deathstroke's that knows the match up, controls the match up.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
ZalliX said:
Whats to stop him from walking back? And if you try to advance on him he has the same keep away game. I think Deathstroke's that knows the match up, controls the match up.
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Soul crush

Ravens highly superior forward walk

Singularity in Demon Stance

etc.
 
S

Sami

Warrior
ZalliX said:
Whats to stop him from walking back? And if you try to advance on him he has the same keep away game. I think Deathstroke's that knows the match up, controls the match up.
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He can walk back all he likes (Raven will walk forward quicker). It's just that Raven can punish pretty much all of his stuff with a good Soul Crush and if your connection is good (or playing offline) can block/duck guns on reaction.

Raven can control the spacing in the match much better than Deathstroke can. The problems for Raven come from when you mess up and DS gets full screen or point blank. Outside of that, Raven is free to lift (in range of course!), advance and punish gun shots and (non-MB) interactable attempts. Just need to be careful of yolo sword flips.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
Zoidberg747

Both Tano and I consider the catwoman MU as 6-4 Raven.

She zones Catwoman fairly well IMO mostly because of how INSANE shadow raven's meter building is., in my experience not a single time you go for Demon Mode, because it's easier for the catwoman player to armor through on reaction. Upclose you can defend yourself pretty well because of your 6f d1 beating her fastest move (7f)

The Deathstroke MU that I have is mostly before he got nerfed so not a lot to add. In fact I've been playing him too, and I feel it's about even. Patience, patience, patience. Grundy MU, well, Raven-Grundy-Deathstroke are my three chars so I've never played the MU, but I feel it's about even or 4-6 Grundy because of how fucked up things can go if he gets a defense chain on.

The Bane MU, I've played little of it, I think Raven wins it but I could be wrong. Ares MU is even, Doomsday is a little more winnable than what I thought previously.

Zatanna, I've played it and I think Raven definitely has an advantage because once in Demon Mode, Zatanna has not a single answer. The teleport games always favor Raven because of being able to do it in the air. Zod can't zone you, and upclose you can handle him ok. Hawkgirl, try to get in demon mode and shove a pillar in her ass. Batman is about even. Superman maybe he has the advantage but it's by every mean winnable.

I think she rapes green lantern because of his sucky movement.

I'm starting to test the Flash MU vs Juan (Personal Juegos winner), and we both feel its 5-5. mostly because Raven can hold him at bay with a little more chances than other zoners, also because of your 6f d1 and because Raven has some glitchy shit when Flash stops time. I won't put numbers till the next patch is released and further testing.
 
OG Mannimal

OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
Owerbart said:
Zoidberg747

Both Tano and I consider the catwoman MU as 6-4 Raven.

She zones Catwoman fairly well IMO mostly because of how INSANE shadow raven's meter building is., in my experience not a single time you go for Demon Mode, because it's easier for the catwoman player to armor through on reaction. Upclose you can defend yourself pretty well because of your 6f d1 beating her fastest move (7f)

The Deathstroke MU that I have is mostly before he got nerfed so not a lot to add. In fact I've been playing him too, and I feel it's about even. Patience, patience, patience. Grundy MU, well, Raven-Grundy-Deathstroke are my three chars so I've never played the MU, but I feel it's about even or 4-6 Grundy because of how fucked up things can go if he gets a defense chain on.

The Bane MU, I've played little of it, I think Raven wins it but I could be wrong. Ares MU is even, Doomsday is a little more winnable than what I thought previously.

Zatanna, I've played it and I think Raven definitely has an advantage because once in Demon Mode, Zatanna has not a single answer. The teleport games always favor Raven because of being able to do it in the air. Zod can't zone you, and upclose you can handle him ok. Hawkgirl, try to get in demon mode and shove a pillar in her ass. Batman is about even. Superman maybe he has the advantage but it's by every mean winnable.

I think she rapes green lantern because of his sucky movement.

I'm starting to test the Flash MU vs Juan (Personal Juegos winner), and we both feel its 5-5. mostly because Raven can hold him at bay with a little more chances than other zoners, also because of your 6f d1 and because Raven has some glitchy shit when Flash stops time. I won't put numbers till the next patch is released and further testing.
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Raven does not beat Bane. The matchup is 4-6 and possibly 3-7. I've played roughly 20 matches vs the best Bane in the world (Not Grr, but Rev Smith) and it is not good. Banes armor destroys raven.
 
Jackal904

Jackal904

Mortal
OG Mannimal said:
Raven does not beat Bane. The matchup is 4-6 and possibly 3-7. I've played roughly 20 matches vs the best Bane in the world (Not Grr, but Rev Smith) and it is not good. Banes armor destroys raven.
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Yeah I've been playing that MU quite a bit recently against a very good Bane. I think it can be 4-6 but only if you really know how to handle the MU. I need to continue grinding out this MU and see how it goes.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
OG Mannimal said:
Raven does not beat Bane. The matchup is 4-6 and possibly 3-7. I've played roughly 20 matches vs the best Bane in the world (Not Grr, but Rev Smith) and it is not good. Banes armor destroys raven.
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It is 5-5.

You have to play WAAAYYYY more than 20 matches to leanr how to fight bane. You fight him completely different from anyone else in the game.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Zoidberg747 said:
I still believe scorp is 6-4, but since zaf plays both chars at a high level I am taking his word on it.

Lex could be 7-3, the only thing is if Lex can get her in the corner he can completely turn the game around. Still could be 7-3.
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You should talk w PL about the scorp raven mu
 
Jackal904

Jackal904

Mortal
Zoidberg747 said:
It is 5-5.

You have to play WAAAYYYY more than 20 matches to leanr how to fight bane. You fight him completely different from anyone else in the game.
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This is exactly what I figured. This Bane I've been fighting has been bodying me. (Played about 30ish matches, first 10 I had no clue how to handle him) But the whole time I felt like Raven can handle him, I just need to practice the MU more.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Zoidberg747 said:
I still believe scorp is 6-4, but since zaf plays both chars at a high level I am taking his word on it.

Lex could be 7-3, the only thing is if Lex can get her in the corner he can completely turn the game around. Still could be 7-3.
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My view on this is thats what chance he has and keeps it 7-3. As a raven id zone beyond zone him and always be in trait mode. This mu seems atrocious
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
AK Pig Of The Hut said:
My view on this is thats what chance he has and keeps it 7-3. As a raven id zone beyond zone him and always be in trait mode. This mu seems atrocious
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You might be right, ive only played Rev0lver a couple times.

As far as Scorp goes do you know what PL has the MU as?
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Jackal904 said:
This is exactly what I figured. This Bane I've been fighting has been bodying me. (Played about 30ish matches, first 10 I had no clue how to handle him) But the whole time I felt like Raven can handle him, I just need to practice the MU more.
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Basically what you need to know is if he charges and you are in demon stance you can teleport and db2 him for a full combo. If you are in regular stance you can MB B3 him unless he is in lvl 3 venom. If he tries to pressure you on wakeup you can try to teleport, but he can jump back d3 to punish you for it, but then he has to guess whether you are going to wakeup teleport or wakeup singularity(pulls him out of the air).

When he is on debuff he is just going to sit back in turtle, so just pelt him with pillars to gain more meter for the options above.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Zoidberg747 said:
It is 5-5.

You have to play WAAAYYYY more than 20 matches to leanr how to fight bane. You fight him completely different from anyone else in the game.
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Its 6-4 Bane's favour. Easily.
By easily, I mean possibly dipping into the 6.5-3.5 range. I'm sorry, really and truly, but its in no way, shape, or form anywhere close to a 5-5 MU

Zoidberg747 said:
Basically what you need to know is if he charges and you are in demon stance you can teleport and db2 him for a full combo. If you are in regular stance you can MB B3 him unless he is in lvl 3 venom. If he tries to pressure you on wakeup you can try to teleport, but he can jump back d3 to punish you for it, but then he has to guess whether you are going to wakeup teleport or wakeup singularity(pulls him out of the air).

When he is on debuff he is just going to sit back in turtle, so just pelt him with pillars to gain more meter for the options above.
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I like the tell-tale sign of a lack of understanding of the MU. If theres a charge coming, 9/10 it won't be a raw one you can just react to from half a screen away. It'll be one where if you are pressing any buttons whatsoever, its a hit. Basically if your logic behind its a 5-5 is "Mb b.3 and react to charge" then you either aren't playing the right Banes or you aren't playing any Banes at all.

Also we are just going to sit back and turtle? Why? We can still armor using our meter which we don't use much of anyways and carve through your most of everything, we can still sit in your face since our d.2, d.1, and b/f.3 don't get any slower. Why would be bother putting ourselves fullscreen from a soul crushing, fireball lobbing, pillar summoning raven when we can just sit in her face and she can't do much about it because all of her answers for opening us up can be figured out in a matter of 5 minutes and a movelist.

Now if you just don't know the MU well for Raven, I can forgive it because frankly most people don't have realistic representations of what Bane can do (and that's why they usually lose and say "I thought Bane was bad."). Mb b.3 isn't any worse than its been for Banes barring the small damage dip we deal in trade, and outside of that if your loosing your meter out at us to try and stop every single armored attempt you're asking to be baited or blown up.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Doombawkz said:
Its 6-4 Bane's favour. Easily.
By easily, I mean possibly dipping into the 6.5-3.5 range. I'm sorry, really and truly, but its in no way, shape, or form anywhere close to a 5-5 MU
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I don't agree.

I mean he's downplaying the shit out of Bane's oki and stuff on her, but on the other hand she can abuse the shit out of demon stance on him from full screen. If he turtles then more meter for her, which means more MB b,3 shit you have to deal with.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Sami said something about this knockdown thing that makes all scorps wake ups mean jack shit. I'm convinced the mu is 5-5
Bane is 5-5 f2 is 2 hits, mb b3, teleport.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Zoidberg747 said:
Play Blind Man, get back to me.

BiPolarExxpress isnt 5-5 the number we agreed on?
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I've played Blind Man. He's the pride of Trigon, but even I've taken a few matches off of him and I'm a god-awful Bane.
Also you'll want to re-read the post, I gave a quick rundown. I didn't just get Bipolar's opinion on the MU but all the Banes from Max to Grr. When I put it down as a 6-4 our favour, not a single person questioned it. They instead were more worried about the Batgirl Mu since we don't dominate her on wake-up.
 
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