Match-up Discussion Raven MU Chart

[Jackal904]

I'm saying there are solutions other than blocking the vortex in general. Not in this setup, this setup is very good for this matchup, just saying that the ambiguous crossup is not that ambiguous.

There is no cross-up if the opponent holds back. I should have mentioned that earlier. I just haven't used it much since I noticed my opponents block it very often. It's good for the Scorpion option-select though, that's pretty much it.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

This character is extremely good.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

There is no cross-up if the opponent holds back. I should have mentioned that earlier. I just haven't used it much since I've noticed my opponents block it very often. It's good for the Scorpion option-select though, that's pretty much it.

^^THIS^^ is the purpose of this setup. As long as scorpion doesn't wake up i don't care if he gets hit or not. Stop trying to tell us it's not good as a vortex when we don't use it as one.

 

[Qwark28]

Then why did you quote what Sami said about the scorpion specific set up?

Was adding more information about the vortex setup. VS Scorpion it is good for its purpose but I was pointing a flaw in the original purpose of the vortex.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Was adding more information about the vortex setup. VS Scorpion it is good for its purpose but I was pointing a flaw in the original purpose of the vortex.

A flaw that we were aware of which is why this set up isn't used often.

 

[Jackal904]

Was adding more information about the vortex setup. VS Scorpion it is good for its purpose but I was pointing a flaw in the original purpose of the vortex.

It's still not backdashable unless you do it late (obviously). And like we said there is no mixup. I believe originally it was thought to be an ambiguous cross-up, but it isn't. It's all just a misunderstanding.

 

[Qwark28]

A flaw that we were aware of which is why this set up isn't used often.

Wasn't sure if this was known, that's the reason I posted it. Since it's known then ignore my post.

 

[Sami]

Wasn't sure if this was known, that's the reason I posted it. Since it's known then ignore my post.

It's known to Raven players, but generally not known to most of her opponents hence we can get away with it more often than we should . The proper guessing game comes from changing the spacing of the knockdown (normal~lift). Unless your opponent can identify every normal she does and knows the spacing it gives after cancelling it into lift, they will be making an educated guess based on where they land.

The real dirt setup is ending with b23 in the corner and then neutral jumping (yes I know it gets blown up by AA wake-up grabs).

 

[Blind_Ducky]

It's known to Raven players, but generally not known to most of her opponents hence we can get away with it more often than we should . The proper guessing game comes from changing the spacing of the knockdown (normal~lift). Unless your opponent can identify every normal she does and knows the spacing it gives after cancelling it into lift, they will be making an educated guess based on where they land.

The real dirt setup is ending with b23 in the corner and then neutral jumping (yes I know it gets blown up by AA wake-up grabs).

I love doing that b23 thing. It also works with b123. Only problem is if they roll it won't cross up ;_;

 

[Zoidberg747]

This character is extremely good.

Most of us have been saying this for months lol

 

[Sami]

Looking at the Raven/KF match-up, this pretty much comes down to Soul Crush's recovery being 4-5 frames too long. If it recovered quick enough to block the reversal Iceberg Raven could poke all day long and actually take control of the ranged game. As it is, her ranged pokes get punished and we all know what KF is like up close.

 

[Jackal904]

Looking at the Raven/KF match-up, this pretty much comes down to Soul Crush's recovery being 4-5 frames too long. If it recovered quick enough to block the reversal Iceberg Raven could poke all day long and actually take control of the ranged game. As it is, her ranged pokes get punished and we all know what KF is like up close.

Demon Stance is crucial in this MU because she can't punish pillars or event horizon, and you can punish iceberg with a reversal event horizon. Also I believe she can slide under Shadow Ravens and possibly even Soul Crush. But regardless of iceberg, a blocked soul crush could mean a guaranteed hit from KFs slide depending on the range.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Demon Stance is crucial in this MU because she can't punish pillars or event horizon, and you can punish iceberg with a reversal event horizon. Also I believe she can slide under Shadow Ravens and possibly even Soul Crush. But regardless of iceberg, a blocked soul crush could mean a guaranteed hit from KFs slide depending on the range.

Slide start up is +20 frames so she can't slide soul crush. But she can mb iceberg

 

[Jackal904]

Slide start up is +20 frames so she can't slide soul crush. But she can mb iceberg

Oh yeah... I think I was thinking of how KF can do MB iceberg then slide (or dash then slide) for a full combo punish from range. So yeah, blocked SC = very bad vs KF.

 

[Sami]

Demon Stance is crucial in this MU because she can't punish pillars or event horizon, and you can punish iceberg with a reversal event horizon. Also I believe she can slide under Shadow Ravens and possibly even Soul Crush. But regardless of iceberg, a blocked soul crush could mean a guaranteed hit from KFs slide depending on the range.

She can't punish pillars or grab, but if try and do back-to-back pillars (or pillar then grab) she can get a reversal Iceberg off after the first pillar which will hit before the second pillar/grab. Your read options for countering Iceberg interuptions are:

1) Block instead of pillar/grab, giving you a punish on Iceberg
2) Soul Crush instead of pillar/grab, interrupting the Iceberg start-up. Of course, if KF keeps blocking then Soul Crush will get blown up.

It reminds me a lot of the Deathstroke MU at range - pillar spam gets interrupted, KF wins at full screen vs normal stance due to Iceberg having full range, and whoever gets their quick ranged move blocked first gets punished.

 

[Jackal904]

She can't punish pillars or grab, but if try and do back-to-back pillars (or pillar then grab) she can get a reversal Iceberg off after the first pillar which will hit before the second pillar/grab. Your read options for countering Iceberg interuptions are:

1) Block instead of pillar/grab, giving you a punish on Iceberg
2) Soul Crush instead of pillar/grab, interrupting the Iceberg start-up. Of course, if KF keeps blocking then Soul Crush will get blown up.

It reminds me a lot of the Deathstroke MU at range - pillar spam gets interrupted, KF wins at full screen vs normal stance due to Iceberg having full range, and whoever gets their quick ranged move blocked first gets punished.

Yeah. But you can use that to your advantage by baiting icebergs and punishing with the full screen grab. During trait cooldown just lame it out until its back. The cooldown is pretty short. And all of KFs ranged attacks can be punished (reflect daggers), Raven at least has pillars, fullscreen grab, and the occasional shadow raven. The MU is a pain but very winnable, you just have to be patient and very respectful of her options.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Mr Aquaman
IJS Dislexsik
AK Reayon
DownfouralitY
4x4lo8o
xInfra Deadx
Mosp

Im looking for Ares mains opinions on the Ares-Raven MU. Ive tried playing it multiple times and can never figure out if I am just free to this character or if maybe the MU isn't 5-5.

You dont have to give numbers if you dont want to, but it would help.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

@Mr. Aquaman
@Dislexik
AK Reayon
DownfouralitY
@4x4lo80
xInfra Deadx
Mosp

Im looking for Ares mains opinions on the Ares-Raven MU. Ive tried playing it multiple times and can never figure out if I am free to this character or if maybe the MU isn't 5-5.

You dont have to give numbers if you dont want to, but it would help.

6-4 Ray Ray also zod is 5-5

 

[Zoidberg747]

6-4 Ray Ray also zod is 5-5

How?

 

[Blind_Ducky]

How?

Ares can't zone because reflect and his teleports are not an issue. And Zod mu is based on momentum. Ravens neutral game is also better than zods and when Raven is in trait she can just do pull and zod can't do anything besides try to get in or he eats a combo. Zod balls are not that useful. When Raven crouches half of the trait swipes from zod will whiff also zods mix ups are easy to block.

 

[Owerbart]

Ares can't zone because reflect and his teleports are not an issue. And Zod mu is based on momentum. Ravens neutral game is also better than zods and when Raven is in trait she can just do pull and zod can't do anything besides try to get in or he eats a combo. Zod balls are not that useful. When Raven crouches half of the trait swipes from zod will whiff also zods mix ups are easy to block.

I'll agree with Raven having not too much issues against Zod. Soul Crush and Demon mode db2 are great for shutting down his zoning Also I find it quite hard for zod to trait. In the close up game Zod isn't IMO the best mixup char so once you fet used to it's easy to block.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

I have only played this MU a few times but I have never struggled. Gladly grind it out with anyone.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I haven't struggled in this matchup much. Ares does not fear Demon Stance at all.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

The Area Raven mu is heavily affected by online.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

every MU in igau is lol