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"Prepare to be Astounded!" - Zatanna General Discussion Thread

S

Silverharp

Noob
I never told anyone this but....


Am I the only one who can never do Etativel kick online? Like seriously, literally NO problems in training mode, but when I go online, I'm still floating in the air like a fucking Pinãta on Cinco de Mayo...
 
KamkaziChicila

KamkaziChicila

Harley & Zatana is all I need.
her Zombie Walk now is so stronk. Like get it off once then if your opponent jumps j2 f21 Zombie walk, rinse repeat. I really hope they don't change her. I love how she plays this patch.
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Kombatant
just a little factoid: i did throwing cards on wake up against greenlantern whom just smashed the glass on atlantis and lo and behold i just stood there spraying cards valiantly, unphased by the wall of water, lol
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Kombatant
so an odd thing happened, which i assume is a glitch. I was playing against the Flash online, I went into hat stance and did that "holding her wand above her head like a lightning tent" move that beats out almost everything, well, the flash did that uppercut type move and hit me into the air, and zatanna stayed in her move animation while airborne... i took the damage as well...anyone have this happen? or any other glitches involving zatanna?
 
BlastX21

BlastX21

Mortal
The issue I have with Zatanna is that her main low starter (b1) has horrible range and is only average in its speed. Her overhead starter isextremely slow. Her only starter that has decent range is 3, but its a mid. Her high-low game seems really lacking. How do you guys make up for these deficiencies? Zatanna's fun to play as, but I have trouble actually being successful with her.
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Kombatant
BlastX21 said:
The issue I have with Zatanna is that her main low starter (b1) has horrible range and is only average in its speed. Her overhead starter isextremely slow. Her only starter that has decent range is 3, but its a mid. Her high-low game seems really lacking. How do you guys make up for these deficiencies? d fun to play as, but I have trouble actually being successful with her.
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you are correct on all accounts, zatanna isnt that great but really fun to play... really the only way to make up for it is with zoning and using her teleport to confuse and trick.. i teleport a lot! plus a jump in 3 works as a great crossup, though i rarely jump in... i rely on zoning, spacing and confusing the opponent... im not sure how you can be successful with her if you dont put a strong emphasis on zoning... i dunno, ive used her a lot and still struggle, if i lose my screen positioning, its lights out
 
KH_Seraph

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
BlastX21 said:
The issue I have with Zatanna is that her main low starter (b1) has horrible range and is only average in its speed. Her overhead starter isextremely slow. Her only starter that has decent range is 3, but its a mid. Her high-low game seems really lacking. How do you guys make up for these deficiencies? Zatanna's fun to play as, but I have trouble actually being successful with her.
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I usually only use her overhead/low mixup after a successful J1/J2, especially after trance. Usually my main attack is 3 or 223. I feel like she is very momentum based. Just need to make the right first moves in the match and then the rounds are sealed.
 
BlastX21

BlastX21

Mortal
KH_Seraph said:
I usually only use her overhead/low mixup after a successful J1/J2, especially after trance. Usually my main attack is 3 or 223. I feel like she is very momentum based. Just need to make the right first moves in the match and then the rounds are sealed.
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Yeah I like 223 because you can go into 221 if they block it which is +4, but the best combo I can get off 223 is 30%. Any way to get higher than that with 1 bar?

edit: also, why would you say that the round is sealed if you get the early lead? Hat stance? Because her only good zoning tool imo when outside of hat stance is MB rings.
 
KH_Seraph

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
BlastX21 said:
Yeah I like 223 because you can go into 221 if they block it which is +4, but the best combo I can get off 223 is 30%. Any way to get higher than that with 1 bar?

edit: also, why would you say that the round is sealed if you get the early lead? Hat stance? Because her only good zoning tool imo when outside of hat stance is MB rings.
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I LOVE using MB Rings. People tend to not know that it's an overhead so they eat meaty damage from it and get knocked down, allowing for setup opportunities. It's a great tool for quick space control at a distance.

I didn't want to initially expose my round beginning setups, but for the sake of the greater Zatanna good, I'll throw them out. Some examples of things that I do to kickstart and get instant momentum in the match is either use her quick 8-frame JI1 which beats out most attacks (Except for a select few, like *cough* Batman/Scorpion's JI3), or I'll backdash and throw out F3, leading into a full combo at the start of the match. Whatever I do at the start of the match is dependent on a couple of factors, ie the player's trueskill, character, etc. The best thing to do is hit the lab and play around in a couple of stages... Ones that have background 3d bounces work best for Zatanna because it stacks on the damage easily.

The Batcave for example, gives opportunities for unavoidable 50/50 vortex resets that allow you to keep kicking the opponent into the Bat Computer as long as you have meter for trance, because they turned her J2|Levi|J2 into a 50/50 reset opportunity. Play around in the lab with that and figure out your best, most max damage background bounce combo that lead into that reset. It looks as though you are doing background and wallbounces multiple times within a single, long ass combo.

Usually, you will have done enough damage to completely mindfuck your opponent, which I believe Zatanna does best given her toolset, which makes up for her lack of impressive damage.

Another good trick, is ending your combos with 223 or something for hat stance setups. You can also end combos with 11D3 for a free crossup opportunity with either f3 or J3/Divekick.

Something else that I've seen work against Aquaman's zoning, is Hat Stance cancel into her Electric Cage. If done at the right time, it nullifies his from the deep or harpoon throws, allowing you to do whatever you'd like in Hat Stance, and build meter in the process.

There are also good setups for MB Fire Kiss, like 223 into MB Fire Kiss for example. MB Fire Kiss allows you to safely follow up with Smoke and Mirrors against most of the cast.

And as far as damage using 223 as a combo starter using 1 bar is concerned... Well, I'm at work right now but off the top of my head, you could do 223 MB Kicks, F21~BackgroundBounce, B3, JI2 22 Trance/112~Cards, or some kind of variant of it. Don't know how much damage you would get off of that but I'm sure it's over 30%. I think they've modified the Multi-Kick so that the hitbox is larger post-patch, so 223 MB kicks should work now.

I usually always follow up 223 with MB trance if I'm going that route so I can get my free 50/50. When I get access to a camcorder, I'll try and see if I can post a Zatanna fundamentals guide or something. I've seen a few videos here on TYM of people that make good use of her tricks, but every Zatanna I've played has been VERY basic and low-speed. She should look more like Skarlet from MK9 if you execute her right.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Ive been trying to pick up zatanna.

I would be appreciative if someone were to tell me the following:

What are her best oki setups(as in electing to cancel into cards for HKD)
What are her best wakeup attacks
What is her general strategy
What is the best way to chip out an opponent

Or basically anything you want to share about the character. Have a long road ahead of me ha.
 
kevkopdx

kevkopdx

Kombatant
Zoidberg747 said:
Ive been trying to pick up zatanna.

I would be appreciative if someone were to tell me the following:

What are her best oki setups(as in electing to cancel into cards for HKD)
What are her best wakeup attacks
What is her general strategy
What is the best way to chip out an opponent

Or basically anything you want to share about the character. Have a long road ahead of me ha.
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Kind of a learning curve with her, so just know that ;)
ill give you my take, but read and watch deg222 , he's really good with her..

her wakeups kind of suck, they are one directional and pretty easy to cross up, its better to block on wakeup... that being said, i use her multi kicks more often than cards, the hitbox seems larger on startup.

chipping the opponent is great with her trait stance... i really try to go into it whenever i can even if its just to get a few shots off, you build meter quickly and its nice damage... other than that her regular and mb rings are decent zoning tools

as far as oki stuff, her hard knock downs are great, cuz they usually space you far from the opponent and you really need to learn good space control with her. after a full screen hard knock down such as 223, go into trait

some general stuff:
her normals are slow, very slow, use her d1 when up close, its fast and you can cancel into multikicks.
teleport a lot!
shes really fun to play but has some pretty bad matchups in my opinion...
oh and i wouldnt waste much time with her mb fireball, huge startup and its really more for show
as for the match ups that i have a lot of trouble with: the flash and doomsday, i usually counterpick my other main batgirl for those... i can see a good deathstroke being difficult as well...
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Zoidberg747 said:
Ive been trying to pick up zatanna.

I would be appreciative if someone were to tell me the following:

What are her best oki setups(as in electing to cancel into cards for HKD)
What are her best wakeup attacks
What is her general strategy
What is the best way to chip out an opponent

Or basically anything you want to share about the character. Have a long road ahead of me ha.
Click to expand...
Nice! Welcome to the fishnets bitch wagon <3 ;)


Her best okis might be cards or Fireball

Her best wake ups are... Multikicks (it can be neutral jumped) Take card (will hit opponents in the air) & teleport (some characters can actually reverse it -_- and you must reverse your inputs or you will eat a full combo

Her general strategy is like a keepaway/Hit&run (only in some mus) character, her upclose game is bad. So she must actually get the life lead and make them come to you or keep them away (depending on MU) , also zoning is an instant kill if you play against Zatanna, zone her and you will die, since she can teleport making your projectile whiff and punish you, so that's why zoning based characters with a bad rushdown game lose to her. Also you must think twice after using an interactable against her ;)

Tips:
*her Fireball is a MUST in some match ups like Lex Luthor
*abuse backwards teleport, it's an UHMAZING meterbuilding (but in some mus you can't)
*You must be intellimgent and spend your meter proper
Y since she needs meter for everything
*use 1,1,2 as a punisher and 2,2,3 as a starter
*abuse puppet master in the corner
*Trait is a great tool once you master it
 
deg222

deg222

Best Zatanna that uses Aquaman
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
also zoning is an instant kill if you play against Zatanna, zone her and you will die, since she can teleport making your projectile whiff and punish you, so that's why zoning based characters with a bad rushdown game lose to her.
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Yeah, and also because she practically wins every projectile trade. MB ring is a single hitting fast projectile which hits for 13% while a lot of projectiles in the game are multihitting that hit for that much. Characters like Sinestro and Deathstroke have to think twice before ever using a projectile because of that trade... oh and because of teleport :p
 
BlastX21

BlastX21

Mortal
So I used to have 223 be my primary starter, but 112 has been extremely reliable for me recently. It gives me a sense of security knowing that if the zoning collapses and they get right in my face that I have the fastest normal in the game to slam them with, and I've taken advantage of this multiple times. 223 is 9 frame startup, which is still good, but its hard to turn down the 5 frame alternative. The funny part is that Zatanna's slow as hell high/low game actually helps this string - they're so unafraid of her low starter that opponents will rarely duck, which nullifies the disadvantage that it hits high.
 
Goatlegs

Goatlegs

Noob
So I've skimmed Zatanna's threads and have discovered a few things I didn't see anywhere. If these are already known, let me know and I'll delete this post.

1. Aquaman's trait allows him to block the trance part of MB Puppet Master. MB Puppet Master is actually 2 hits: the initial hit and the "initializing" of the trance part (where Zatanna waves her hands in the air the second time). Aquaman can block the second part and you will still spend the meter as if it hit.

2. MB Ring Toss on hit on a standing opponent from full screen can combo into Puppet Master. This probably isn't very practical because you rarely have someone at the fullest screen. However it might be able to combo a little bit within full screen, I haven't really tested this much.

3. If you hit someone with her divekick and it hits them back into the corner, assuming they don't tech roll, you can dash in, where you will be standing over their body, and instant divekick as they're getting up. This will cross them up every time. I'm sure there's more you can do with this, but I literally just did this 5 minutes ago and had to get off so I might play with this some more later.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Goatlegs said:
So I've skimmed Zatanna's threads and have discovered a few things I didn't see anywhere. If these are already known, let me know and I'll delete this post.

1. Aquaman's trait allows him to block the trance part of MB Puppet Master. MB Puppet Master is actually 2 hits: the initial hit and the "initializing" of the trance part (where Zatanna waves her hands in the air the second time). Aquaman can block the second part and you will still spend the meter as if it hit.

2. MB Ring Toss on hit on a standing opponent from full screen can combo into Puppet Master. This probably isn't very practical because you rarely have someone at the fullest screen. However it might be able to combo a little bit within full screen, I haven't really tested this much.

3. If you hit someone with her divekick and it hits them back into the corner, assuming they don't tech roll, you can dash in, where you will be standing over their body, and instant divekick as they're getting up. This will cross them up every time. I'm sure there's more you can do with this, but I literally just did this 5 minutes ago and had to get off so I might play with this some more later.
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All of this was already known. Also a lot of people tries to kove after a blocked MB rings so it gives us a free Puppet Master or a MB teleport
 
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