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Match-up Discussion RiBBz22's Killer Frost Matchup Chart [Updated: 10/10/13]

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ApocaLips

Kombatant
KF is the only character I play with release check on due to 2~MB grab. It helps a lot.

If you're having trouble with it, you can do 2~slide, f1~MB grab. F1~MB grab is an easier input, but f1 is slower so it's usually tighter timing. But using 2~slide instead of f112~slide reduces the gravity and makes the f1~grab much easier to do.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Yea I do f1 grab. That feels much easier. I can do 2 grab but its hard lol.

I find that and TA 2 slide after MB iceberg the hardest thing about her.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Yea I do f1 grab. That feels much easier. I can do 2 grab but its hard lol.

I find that and TA 2 slide after MB iceberg the hardest thing about her.
That b3 TA combo I posted is one of her easiest to do because of the height of the MB Iceberg. You may even be able to get an u3 instead of 11b2 which would push the combo to 60% lol
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
NOT SURE IF UNDERSTAND MY TROLL CORRECTLY THEN PROCEED TO MAKE OWN TROLL. ALSO USES INCORRECT USE OF YOUR.

DOES NOT COMPUTE
Sorry man I wasn't trying to troll you. I just thought you were saying Sinestro is from Africa but I was certain it was black Adam. I think Egypt if I remember correctly but I'm no DC expert.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Sorry man I wasn't trying to troll you. I just thought you were saying Sinestro is from Africa but I was certain it was black Adam. I think Egypt if I remember correctly but I'm no DC expert.
lol I was saying that you are in denial that the MU is not 7-3
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
A lot of people don't think it's 7-3. Might be worth revisiting, even though I also think it's probably 7-3. Compare to Sinestro's matchup vs. Aquaman.
I dunno it is pretty bad. I play P2W a lot who is getting top 8's at majors and it is bad.
 

ApocaLips

Kombatant
I dunno it is pretty bad. I play P2W a lot who is getting top 8's at majors and it is bad.
I agree on the 7-3 based on what we know. But some Sinestros, if I recall correctly, disagree with that assessment. Might be worth talking to them directly about the matchup since there's inconsistency between the character communities.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
If you're talking Kf vs sinestro, doesn't your slide go under his orbs from about midscreen or something?
Slide goes under fear blast from anywhere on the screen. It goes under MB fear blast from 3/4 screen. You can also jump and air dash over the MB version. She out-zones him with daggers alone and if he doesn't have the life lead he is totally screwed whereas if he has the life lead she is one slide away from getting it back. It is hard for him to get his trait out against Frost due to her zoning. Iceberg punishes shackles or impact anywhere on the screen, and MB's into a combo if you are around slide range.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Frost vs sinestro is pretty bad man. When I beat P2W at SJ, my only true sinestro exp was against Pig, which was months before SJ.


P2W knew the frost MU (so be told me) and was doing shit I've never even seen before from any sinestro.

I still 2-0'd him. The fact that I didn't even know the MU at that high of a level and he did, and I still won, should mean something.
 

ApocaLips

Kombatant
Frost vs sinestro is pretty bad man. When I beat P2W at SJ, my only true sinestro exp was against Pig, which was months before SJ.


P2W knew the frost MU (so be told me) and was doing shit I've never even seen before from any sinestro.

I still 2-0'd him. The fact that I didn't even know the MU at that high of a level and he did, and I still won, should mean something.
Hey, I completely agree with you, and I'd add that she totally wrecks him up close too, and her vortex is way better than his. I'm just saying we should try to find out why they're saying 6-4 in case we missed something or at least so we can figure out why they're wrong.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Really enjoying this patch so far. MB f3 is so godlike. I didn't get to play any Black Adams last night, I was only able to take him into training mode, but I can still see that being one of her only bad MU's or potentially 5-5 now with the greater punish window. He can still play his conservative runaway game in a smart way and not take many risks.

Green Arrow - I played a really good Green Arrow for a long set and that MU didn't feel any different, but I am not sure if they were fully utilizing the new buffs yet or not.

Superman - felt easier to me, but the players I played weren't that great.

Bane - I played a few good Banes and the MU was pretty much the same as before. I think some good Bane players can finally make some noise with the character now because of the latest buffs. The reduction in level 3 cooldown damage wasn't as big of a deal as I initially thought it would be.

Scorpion - is more annoying and needs to be taken seriously again. I played a good one last night and went even with him. No character makes my blood boil more than Scorpion in this game even though I think Frost still probably wins. I think this might be more annoying online than off though...

Wonder Woman - No changes

Aquaman - Felt 6-4 Frost

Flash - This character is so dumb. Probably still 5-5...

Batgirl - No changes, probably still 5-5. If I had to pick a direction I would lean towards Frost. I play both characters at a high level.

Nightwing - Played a ton of good Nightwing's last night for whatever reason. That character is swag. No changes to the MU though. Still Frost advantage. If anything the changes helped Frost out here like it universally did across most other matches that didn't really change.

What do you guys think about some of the other match-ups you have been playing?
 

ApocaLips

Kombatant
Here's my quick take on the matchups and how they've changed from the patch:

Aquaman: 5-5
KF can't approach a patient Aquaman with slide or air dash due to b1 check vs. slide and his amazing d2. b13~ex trident rush is a serious problem for everyone, including KF. Aquaman has to play this match differently, but b1 and triden rush get the job done. Interactable changes don't affect this hugely since Aquaman doesn't have the extreme mobility of other power characters.

Bane: 6-4
The venom upgrade isn't as big of a deal as I thought. Uppercut MB on wakeup takes some getting used to, but it's not a problem after that. It just makes Banes use meter, which cuts his advantage in the second round. I think this matchup barely changed and remains 6-4.

Batgirl: 6-4
D1 becoming parryable is a huge change IMO. It massively weakens her frametrap pressure from d1~bf3 and d1~cartwheel. It completely changes the post-slide game - now she can't d1 into pressure for free, she has to use either d1 (parryable now) or b1 (our d1 interrupts).

Batman: 5-5
This matchup hardly changed at all. The trait nerf isn't a big deal since he can regenerate it while having other bats loaded up - trait management makes it a nonissue. Punishing annoying whiffed b23s is nice but ultimately doesn't change much.

Black Adam: 6-4
I haven't played any yet, but I don't see how this isn't in KF's favor now. She can punish both ex lightning and black magic on reaction now. He can no longer abuse divekick to backdash, as that'll make him eat a 50/50. He now can't outzone her and continues to lose up close.
The dynamic for this match has turned completely upside-down. KF can play patient and smart and frustrate Adam into coming in. One bad divekick can kill him. I don't see, now that he can't reliably zone her, how this isn't in KF's favor.

Catwoman: 6-4
We need to be a tad more careful with our daggers so that she doesn't predict it and ex cat dash in. It's still the same as before though, now she can armor a little later and punish the daggers after they've been thrown rather than catch KF's startup. Catwoman still has the onus of making the guess and loses meter and possibly enters the vortex on an incorrect guess. KF still probably beats her up close, sporting one of the only d2s that can deal with Catwoman's j2. The changes might catch KFs who are used to chucking a ton of daggers off guard, but after adjusting it's still in her favor.

Cyborg: 6-4
Cyborg apparently got a big damage upgrade midscreen due to the 3d attack interactable buff, but we tend to force him to retreat to the corners anyway. Be more careful with slide at midscreen and this stays the same.

Deathstroke: 6-4
Nothing new here. Trait changed a bit but ultimately won't swing this matchup back to even.

Flash: 6-4
I always thought this was 6-4 to begin with. He suffered a noticeable damage nerf on his midscreen and corner bnbs and lost a lot of shenanigans with his d2. Yeah, the first time he touches you it'll hurt, but you can out-footsy him at mid screen and get some zoning in if you're outside of LC range. This matchup becomes a lot easier when you realize his only option after blocking d12 is f2 due to the bad range of d12.

Green Arrow: Unsure
I don't know enough about how the stinger buffs work to comment.

Green Lantern: Unsure
I don't think the OTG nerf hurt him that much, but I also don't have an opinion on what this matchup was pre-patch, so no comment.

Harley Quinn: 5-5
I think this was always 5-5 (note that Harley was the character to eliminate the hopeful KF top-8 players in two majors), but I don't think the patch changed much here. I still have to look into it though.

Hawkgirl: Unsure - I haven't looked into her changes

Joker: Unsure - he changed too much to know right now.

Lex: 6-4
We still beat him at max distance despite the lance shot buff. I don't think this match changed much at all.

Lobo: Unsure - he's almost an entirely new character, will have to see. Probably not 7-3 anymore with the new shotgun blasts doing 28% on hit and over 7% chip.

MMH: 4-6
We have less options vs. TP now, otherwise the matchup hasn't changed. Interactables becoming weaker generally is helpful but likely not enough to push it to even.

Nightwing: 6-4
No relevant changes here.

Raven: 6-4
No changes.

Shazam: 7-3
I think Shazam still sucks hard. I didn't even notice the damage buff or grab range buff (FYI, HM always could grab from starting position), and he lost his crazy corner damage.

Sinestro: 7-3
He got a nice buff that's relevant against everyone but KF. Gotta love parry.

Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Trait becoming unparryable is almost completely irrelevant - just jump. I guess parry doesn't cover almost every option except his low starter, but we still win up close for sure.

Scorpion: 6-4
He got a small damage buff, not enough to make his vortex a 3-touch kill, and he still has to spend way too much meter to do anything. Still 6-4.

Superman: 5-5
I don't think this matchup changed much ultimately. F2 still has decent range and he still has the air control that gives KF problems. He doesn't outright kill you right away once he gets you into the corner, and air laser is easier to punish from anywhere within slide distance. Superman can play the match mostly the same, with the only very noticeable change being his corner damage. The jury is still out on him, but I think it's the same.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
Interactable nerfs help KF, but the matchup itself stays mostly the same. She just can't be as annoying on stages like rooftop.

Zatanna: Unsure
I still think we don't know what Zatanna looks like on a high level. She did get a noticeable nerf though (no more j2, float cancel j2 combos).

Zod: 5-5
We can't parry trait anymore and he lost damage. Likely roughly the same.
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Really enjoying this patch so far. MB f3 is so godlike. I didn't get to play any Black Adams last night, I was only able to take him into training mode, but I can still see that being one of her only bad MU's or potentially 5-5 now with the greater punish window. He can still play his conservative runaway game in a smart way and not take many risks.


Scorpion - is more annoying and needs to be taken seriously again. I played a good one last night and went even with him. No character makes my blood boil more than Scorpion in this game even though I think Frost still probably wins. I think this might be more annoying online than off though...



Batgirl - No changes, probably still 5-5. If I had to pick a direction I would lean towards Frost. I play both characters at a high level.

Nightwing - Played a ton of good Nightwing's last night for whatever reason. That character is swag. No changes to the MU though. Still Frost advantage. If anything the changes helped Frost out here like it universally did across most other matches that didn't really change.

What do you guys think about some of the other match-ups you have been playing?
I've probably been living in a cave, but what exactly has changed in Scorpion's arsenal that makes him tough to deal with?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Here's my quick take on the matchups and how they've changed from the patch:

Aquaman: 5-5
KF can't approach a patient Aquaman with slide or air dash due to b1 check vs. slide and his amazing d2. b13~ex trident rush is a serious problem for everyone, including KF. Aquaman has to play this match differently, but b1 and triden rush get the job done. Interactable changes don't affect this hugely since Aquaman doesn't have the extreme mobility of other power characters.

Bane: 6-4
The venom upgrade isn't as big of a deal as I thought. Uppercut MB on wakeup takes some getting used to, but it's not a problem after that. It just makes Banes use meter, which cuts his advantage in the second round. I think this matchup barely changed and remains 6-4.

Batgirl: 6-4
D1 becoming parryable is a huge change IMO. It massively weakens her frametrap pressure from d1~bf3 and d1~cartwheel. It completely changes the post-slide game - now she can't d1 into pressure for free, she has to use either d1 (parryable now) or b1 (our d1 interrupts).

Batman: 5-5
This matchup hardly changed at all. The trait nerf isn't a big deal since he can regenerate it while having other bats loaded up - trait management makes it a nonissue. Punishing annoying whiffed b23s is nice but ultimately doesn't change much.

Black Adam: 6-4
I haven't played any yet, but I don't see how this isn't in KF's favor now. She can punish both ex lightning and black magic on reaction now. He can no longer abuse divekick to backdash, as that'll make him eat a 50/50. He now can't outzone her and continues to lose up close.
The dynamic for this match has turned completely upside-down. KF can play patient and smart and frustrate Adam into coming in. One bad divekick can kill him. I don't see, now that he can't reliably zone her, how this isn't in KF's favor.

Catwoman: 6-4
We need to be a tad more careful with our daggers so that she doesn't predict it and ex cat dash in. It's still the same as before though, now she can armor a little later and punish the daggers after they've been thrown rather than catch KF's startup. Catwoman still has the onus of making the guess and loses meter and possibly enters the vortex on an incorrect guess. KF still probably beats her up close, sporting one of the only d2s that can deal with Catwoman's j2. The changes might catch KFs who are used to chucking a ton of daggers off guard, but after adjusting it's still in her favor.

Cyborg: 6-4
Cyborg apparently got a big damage upgrade midscreen due to the 3d attack interactable buff, but we tend to force him to retreat to the corners anyway. Be more careful with slide at midscreen and this stays the same.

Deathstroke: 6-4
Nothing new here. Trait changed a bit but ultimately won't swing this matchup back to even.

Flash: 6-4
I always thought this was 6-4 to begin with. He suffered a noticeable damage nerf on his midscreen and corner bnbs and lost a lot of shenanigans with his d2. Yeah, the first time he touches you it'll hurt, but you can out-footsy him at mid screen and get some zoning in if you're outside of LC range. This matchup becomes a lot easier when you realize his only option after blocking d12 is f2 due to the bad range of d12.

Green Arrow: Unsure
I don't know enough about how the stinger buffs work to comment.

Green Lantern: Unsure
I don't think the OTG nerf hurt him that much, but I also don't have an opinion on what this matchup was pre-patch, so no comment.

Harley Quinn: 5-5
I think this was always 5-5 (note that Harley was the character to eliminate the hopeful KF top-8 players in two majors), but I don't think the patch changed much here. I still have to look into it though.

Hawkgirl: Unsure - I haven't looked into her changes

Joker: Unsure - he changed too much to know right now.

Lex: 6-4
We still beat him at max distance despite the lance shot buff. I don't think this match changed much at all.

Lobo: Unsure - he's almost an entirely new character, will have to see. Probably not 7-3 anymore with the new shotgun blasts doing 28% on hit and over 7% chip.

MMH: 4-6
We have less options vs. TP now, otherwise the matchup hasn't changed. Interactables becoming weaker generally is helpful but likely not enough to push it to even.

Nightwing: 6-4
No relevant changes here.

Raven: 6-4
No changes.

Shazam: 7-3
I think Shazam still sucks hard. I didn't even notice the damage buff or grab range buff (FYI, HM always could grab from starting position), and he lost his crazy corner damage.

Sinestro: 7-3
He got a nice buff that's relevant against everyone but KF. Gotta love parry.

Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Trait becoming unparryable is almost completely irrelevant - just jump. I guess parry doesn't cover almost every option except his low starter, but we still win up close for sure.

Scorpion: 6-4
He got a small damage buff, not enough to make his vortex a 3-touch kill, and he still has to spend way too much meter to do anything. Still 6-4.

Superman: 5-5
I don't think this matchup changed much ultimately. F2 still has decent range and he still has the air control that gives KF problems. He doesn't outright kill you right away once he gets you into the corner, and air laser is easier to punish from anywhere within slide distance. Superman can play the match mostly the same, with the only very noticeable change being his corner damage. The jury is still out on him, but I think it's the same.

Wonder Woman: 5-5
Interactable nerfs help KF, but the matchup itself stays mostly the same. She just can't be as annoying on stages like rooftop.

Zatanna: Unsure
I still think we don't know what Zatanna looks like on a high level. She did get a noticeable nerf though (no more j2, float cancel j2 combos).

Zod: 5-5
We can't parry trait anymore and he lost damage. Likely roughly the same.
Awesome write up man. I really love our community forum and the contributions from everyone in it.
 
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