Well said. I think people are too focused into Superman's strengths and what has priority over NW. NW has a chance to win the match up even against the rare strong Superman players that lurk this world apparently. It's the player who plays NW, so I agree in the concept that these Superman mains are just better players.
The lack of confidence in this match up is tiresome. If you're going to cop out with excuses instead of leveling up in the match-up...then you might as put the controller down, you can't do anything well if you go into the match up expecting to lose.
It seems like people have given up on this match-up, a 5 month old game with more patches to be done to it...I can't think of a weaker way to cop out out of this Superman-NW match up.
I don't believe we've seen NW at his highest potential, so in my opinion it's too early to give up.
Is it one of NW's hardest matchups and even with the patch I don't believe it'll be ever close to 5-5, but so what? Keep working and quit crying, or just put the controller down.
I'm not even saying I'm the best at this match-up because I get my ass handed to me if I start making mistakes. I just see no reason to give up or look at this match-up so sour.
If you wanted to talk about me, you should have quoted my post.
Let me just give you a reality check about some things:
The entire "Superman players are better overall players" is a really good argument, until you start to throw some facts against it. The highest placing I've ever gotten was the period where I was playing NW, and using Supes for his terrible matchups. Eventually I dropped the character when I decided pulling out a pocket Supes for half the cast was a terrible idea, and maining him/NW full time was a better idea. Was I placing better because suddenly I was a better player? Nope, and neither was Emperor Theo/Slayer before they picked Supes. Both are great players, but before they stopped playing Supes on the side and switched, they weren't placing at the level close to they are now.
NW doesn't win at any distance against Superman. He has options in certain situations, but many of them are based off of certain situations that get you a couple percent at a time, and the risk will get you punished for significantly more. For instance, NW can do a delayed mb wing ding to beat Supes air lasers at a certain distance, but unless the spacing is incredibly good, you can get hit by a MB'd Supes laser for more damage then your 1 hit of wing ding. NW can use 11 to preemptively beat Superman's f23, but if he waits a fraction of a second then he gets 10 percent more damage than I do with corner carry/interactables if they are near.
NW can neutral jump lasers from full screen when he's in staff, and punish them on the way down with ground blast. If this jump is mistimed and you eat a mb laser or he happens to do a straight laser when you are jumping, you lose much more life then he does. Superman can punish flying grayson on whiff with f23, every single time, and a good Superman will. Supes can and will backdash out of all staff mixups that aren't guaranteed if he understands NW, and NW's options to chase are terrible. Flying grayson, and risk eating 40% every time? Forward dash , and risk getting punished by f23? Do nothing, and proceed to get zoned out until you get back into escrima and somehow make it back in?
Speaking of getting in, the problem with this matchup is that using escrima to approach is difficult since Superman can decide to meet you half way. He can predict a dash and f23 you everytime. Your 15 frame b2 can't compete with that kind of normal, and doesn't offer the same frame advantage/continuous pressure after either. I doubt that many other people have had to deal with Supes f23 db1 pressure, but it's absolutely terrible for everybody, including NW. Contesting it is risky, and if you hesitate you eat another f23/mb laser to be sent back to full screen.
Even if, under a lucky circumstance you happen to knock Superman down, you have to guess. His wakeups are unpredictable and depending on the situation will beat certain options of yours. MB flip kick will lose to a auto correct wake up rising grab/scoop. Some Superman players, including Theo, will wake up with breath when you try to bait something, and you are then stuck back in f23 pressure.
Don't try to sit and patronize myself or other NW players. I lost to Supes one week at Super Arcade, and I sat down and practiced that matchup FOREVER. I practiced dealing with his wakeups, I practiced backdashing and different methods for getting around air laser (when he's in staff he can do stance cancel flip kick from full screen to get back in escrima, it looks cool), I practiced trying to get in a range where I can bait and whiff punish f23, but after all that practice I came to a really obvious conclusion about how ridiculously difficult it would be to beat a Superman player. I even agree that it won't be really good even after Supes gets all the nerfs I've heard about. Until you have concrete ways to deal with this character and feel like sharing, please refrain from trying to indirectly tell me I haven't put in the work or that I've given up. I've been playing fighting games for probably 6 or so years, and I've never given up on something because it was "too hard"
Oh, and I haven't given up on this matchup, I've just realized that I should not be winning it consistently against a Superman that has half a brain. Don't believe me? I promise you that not a single NW player could beat my Superman player in a set as of right now. I haven't played that character in 2 months, and I'm 100% confident. It's not that the NW players are bad, or that my Supes is good, it's that good players won't let you beat them in that matchup. If you don't believe me that this matchup is as tough as I make it out to be, ask
EMPEROR_THEO. He was the one who was trying to convince me how hard the matchup was before I believe him.
Oh, and he was a forever Nightwing player also. I guess he's a lot smarter than me, huh?
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