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Match-up Discussion Martian Manhunter Match Up Discussion

Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
AK Clark said:
I've done very well against Wonder Woman using Martian Manhunter
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Yeah I figured he'd do well due to shutting down her air mobility. But what exactly can he do/ what should a MMH still watch for? Anything out of the ordinary? I haven't played the MU yet and nothing really strikes me as a problem.
 
Clark

Clark

Hides behind armor
Use orbs a lot to keep pressure on her from range, and use trait from midrange to pressure her with 22b3. Teleport punishes her air mobility really well, so as long as your on point blocking her upclose mixup game, I feel like this is in MMH's favor, or at least 5-5.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
xInfra Deadx said:
Free for GL or MMH? Feels even to me.
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Let's just put it this way: the MU for me is easier than most. Against competent GL's I can even kinda autopilot. GL sucks against specific kinds of zoning, which is why Raven is his worst MU, and almost all GLs I've heard from would take Supes over her any day. MMH can tele a full screen projectile, his turbine, and can shut him down with pillars, the same special that Raven users use to "shuttin' you down!" on him. etc. There's a reason why his clash quote is "You don't scare me" and MMH responds with "I haven't tried yet" and if you have a Dolby 5.1 you can hear GL retort "Oh heavens no! Please don't hurt me"

Yeah yeah I haven't played too too many good GLs, so I may be jumping the gun here.

But you know what's not jumping? Green Lantern. Cause he's getting punished.
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
Okay, the more I play it the more I'm thinking Doomsday has a lot of potential to be MMH's worst match-up. For now anyway. He get's on J'onn like white on rice and it's so hard to get him off. Even harder to keep him off. He doesn't really seem to have to respect our zoning much, especially with Meter, and J'onn's normals are laggy enough on recovery that Doomsday can punish us pretty hard.

Does anybody have any tactics that are helping them stay alive? In particular, any normal or cancels that are safe even with his trait up would be extremely useful, assuming MMH even has any.
 
Clark

Clark

Hides behind armor
22 MB close orb I've found works well against Doomsday/Grundy/Bane. Additionally, d.1 poking while DD is in trait does a lot to harass him as he tries to get in free with trait. Finally, learning to consistently tech throws on reaction and block earthshaker goes A LONG WAY to winning the DD matchup, for any character.
 
fr stack

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
AK Clark said:
22 MB close orb I've found works well against Doomsday/Grundy/Bane. Additionally, d.1 poking while DD is in trait does a lot to harass him as he tries to get in free with trait. Finally, learning to consistently tech throws on reaction and block earthshaker goes A LONG WAY to winning the DD matchup, for any character.
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truth ,,, ive never had to block vs doomsday before (i use grundy) ;)
 
maximusroman

maximusroman

Banned
AK Clark said:
22 MB close orb I've found works well against Doomsday/Grundy/Bane. Additionally, d.1 poking while DD is in trait does a lot to harass him as he tries to get in free with trait. Finally, learning to consistently tech throws on reaction and block earthshaker goes A LONG WAY to winning the DD matchup, for any character.
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is doomsday that bad of a char that if you learn to block his shaker and tech throws hes easily defeatable? i dont know his placement on tier list so its why im asking
 
Clark

Clark

Hides behind armor
maximusroman said:
is doomsday that bad of a char that if you learn to block his shaker and tech throws hes easily defeatable? i dont know his placement on tier list so its why im asking
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When people lose to Doomsday, it is because they get flustered by his rush down, and stop blocking ES and teching throws. They start jumping up back or back dashing, both of which get blown up by MB venom. Against DD, you have to be patient and have great defense (easier said than done against his rushdown), and if you have that, you can do well. DD is a great character though, due to his rush down, and his venom takes you to the corner where on every knockdown he gets to reversal your wake up. Brutal.
 
maximusroman

maximusroman

Banned
AK Clark said:
When people lose to Doomsday, it is because they get flustered by his rush down, and stop blocking ES and teching throws. They start jumping up back or back dashing, both of which get blown up by MB venom. Against DD, you have to be patient and have great defense (easier said than done against his rushdown), and if you have that, you can do well. DD is a great character though, due to his rush down, and his venom takes you to the corner where on every knockdown he gets to reversal your wake up. Brutal.
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doomsday doesnt sound that great of a character to me. if your defense is good and you know how to block i dont see how mmh loses this fight. i realised doomsday doesnt have any strong mix ups either. he has no low launchers so if you block high you should be good for the most part
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
Ok. I wanna get your guys opinions on these match ups.

These are the match ups I feel Martian doesn't do well in:

Bane
Batman
Doomsday
Grundy

I think Raven and Killer Frost might be weird but probably even.

PS: Bane might just be my unfamiliarity with him but on knockdown he armor's through wake ups and generally just mindlessly armors with BF2. Once he's konditioned you to block he has his kommand grab. (only played the match up online btw)
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Red Reaper said:
Ok. I wanna get your guys opinions on these match ups.

These are the match ups I feel Martian doesn't do well in:

Bane
Batman
Doomsday
Grundy

I think Raven and Killer Frost might be weird but probably even.

PS: Bane might just be my unfamiliarity with him but on knockdown he armor's through wake ups and generally just mindlessly armors with BF2. Once he's konditioned you to block he has his kommand grab. (only played the match up online btw)
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Doomsday is probably losing, but for the most part I forego zoning and just rushdown and play footsies when need be because he's not keeping Doomsday out for any relevant time. Down 1 is excellent for dealing with trait and MB back 3 is good for MB venom and of course supernova. standing 3 is great for blowing up jump ins like body splash too and his rushdown game is good enough to keep Doomsday in check. Not sure how bad the match up is, but it doesn't feel too bad like it used to feel.


I need more experience versus Grundy and Raven, I think I've played those match ups only a handful of times with Martian Manhunter lol. Killer Frosr and Raven do feel really even though. I've played Batman a couple times, not sure how Ifeel about that one.

Bane is interesting, to blow up his charge I like to do jump back air dash to get a nice combo or you can punish it with teleport or MB pillar into combo/set up of choice.

You can use orbs to check his approach and stuff him out of some grabs and other options he has if they're well timed and space too and his oki pressure aside from level 3 venom can be parried and full punished with MB back 3 and when he's on debuff you should pressure him hard as he has a hard time getting away due to J'onn's trait's range and your zoning plus he does awful damage so you can take way more risks to damage him. Also of note is Bane moves slower when in debuff too as I recall.
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
Bane is an interesting match-up. I don't know if it's a losing MU for J'onn but I think a legitimate case can be made for it being 5-5. Bane in an oki monster with Venom in general but against MMH it seems especially brutal. He simply doesn't give a crap about our primary wake-up attack so if he knocks us down and has Venom going then we're basically at his mercy. Being knocked down in the corner is an unholy nightmare. He can go ham with very little risk.

Debuff is the biggest problem Bane has but even that issue is somewhat less severe against J'onn. All of MMH's projectiles are single hit and, I'd need to test it, but I'm not sure if they're even considered "true" projectiles so there's not as much incentive to go to level 3 compared to other MU's which of course means less time in debuff. The projectiles are also laggy enough than Bane is probably better off trying to dash in than use his riskier charge. If the Bane is patient he can be extremely hard to zone.

I've been approaching this match-up by basically laming him out, taking pot shots and trying to punish whiffed specials and then pressure him during debuff, using trait as needed. It's generally unwise to try and punish blocked moves because Bane's go-to strings are safe and the nature of his trait means using super armor to bulldoze through counter-attacks at disadvantage is part of his strategy. However he can't out-footsie J'onn with trait, especially when debuff hurts his walk speed.

A lot of this is just theory fighting mind you. I have no idea if my current approach is a good one, and decent Banes are rare so I'm really not sure this assessment holds much water.
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
Espio and Zero-Shift

For Bane maybe it's the limiting factor once he gets in. And his oki game of just do a buffed special to armor through. As long as he doesn't get kareless with his Venom his lower level debuffs don't last that long. If you use your trait defensively as Martian and he just armor's through though, you'll be left vulnerable without trait for a while and having to deal with his oki game. Safe armored BF2 overheads that lead to a knockdown where your wake ups are toast gives him a good edge.

It might actually be a 5-5. I'll need to play it more. I usually just orb them out for the most part but there's some stuff that kan really limit Martian when they know how to navigate through orbs.

Espio said:
Doomsday is probably losing, but for the most part I forego zoning and just rushdown and play footsies when need be because he's not keeping Doomsday out for any relevant time. Down 1 is excellent for dealing with trait and MB back 3 is good for MB venom and of course supernova. standing 3 is great for blowing up jump ins like body splash too and his rushdown game is good enough to keep Doomsday in check. Not sure how bad the match up is, but it doesn't feel too bad like it used to feel.
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I was thinking about that. Maybe I should be more aggressive against him...

I'll try to get games in with our local Doomsday player to see how the match up is and try to figure out a strategy for the character.
 
dribirut

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Ok ive gotten some pretty extensive mu exp now and from what ive played i believe:
gl 6-4
superman 5-5
batman 5-5
aquaman 5-5
bladam 5-5
grundy 5.5-4.5
zod 5.5-4.5
doomsday 4.5-5.5 maybe 4-6
sinestro heavy 6-4
flash 4-6
wonderwoman 6-4

have played other mu's but havnt made up my mind about them..
 
Tiger Wong

Tiger Wong

Kombatant
Shouldn't f12 work?

I say this because when I'm WW I punish the torpedo with standing 23 and it nails him. F12 looks like it could hit in similar range. I suppose I should test it though. Haven't played many shazams lately.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Rickyraws said:
What do you guys typically do to punish/ check Shazam's psycho crusher?
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If he does it at certain ranges, Martian Manhunter's throw will reach him without having to move forward or advance at all.

I don't fight many Shazams though with him and that observation was just from a test I just did. It doesn't seem like you can punish with much in general.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Aquaman: 5-5
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 6-4
Deathstroke: 5-5
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 5-5
The Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 5-5
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 6-4
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 6-4
Solomon Grundy: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Zod: 5-5
Zatanna: 6-4
 
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