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Born On a Monday -- Solomon Grundy General Discussion/QA/Combo Thread

Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
Jesus some of you guys are angry.

The only issue i see with grundy is based on his bad matchups. Dive kick and fireballs. Therefore,

-What about grundy's aa grab having armour, like 1 hit. This would very much give us an answer for divekick and hawkgirl equivalent. It wouldn't work everytime as you would still need to be very fast to perform this but it gives an options .

-Quick startup for swamp hands and/or armoud from beginning of frame.

Other than that, leave him alone. Reset is fine. Wagering against trait is fine, they only get one go at it anyway.

/2p
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
It's pretty low to bring up MKST. That shit is totally out of context.
I agree thats its a dumb website whos entire purpose is childish, but certain people(1trueking and muffin muggers are great examples)just act in a way that makes me wish I had a list of people to never interact with and just ignore when I see them post. What you did by completely ignoring points in a discussion because "you play with pig so you must be right" just isnt a positive look. This thread is here so we who play the character can discuss what is best for the character.


It's not just overhead low grab mix up...it's tic throws (he has a dozen of them) and wcc mixups too. The grab will most likely be free if you make them respect all his other options.

The point we were all making is that by giving up a couple frames and free damage, it allows Vrundy to play mind games that will likely yield the same damage in the end. The the clash thing Is just needed. Clashing KILLS Grundy. I don't know how to make you believe me
Im just trying to say that I believe(and I could be very very very wrong, the frame data in the game is wrong so I cant just do math)that by removing frames of advantage to stop the reset, it would make the low option in the vortex jumpable. This would kill his vortex and his best tick throw option out of the b1 because the opponent would just look to see if grundy telegraphs his b1 and if he doesn't j2 would full combo punish the low or the grab option. As of right now he still has the mind games on throw, he still has the mind game with the vortex, and he still has the threat of a guaranteed 31% after a b1.

There is no doubt in my mind that clashing hurts grundy in a positional sense, just like there is no doubt in my mind that taking away the reset would hurt grundy. He had an unfair advantage at launch and they patched it for balance. I just feel that 31% unclashable damage that can be gotten off a tick throw, or armored to beat a lot of strings, or can be done as a wake up attack is just too much. If every other character in the game has to do unclashable combos if they dont want to be clashed then why doesnt grundy? I feel it doesnt kill him at all because on any hit he will do 33%+meterless, and with meter that breaks 50%. If someone clashes grundy, yes, he will be sent full screen and have to go back in. Once he is in though he will only need one hit(and not even need any meter)to make that clash irrelevant. If you have the life lead and defense chain on the clash was already irrelevant in the first place. I know for a fact that if you dash and block your way in, or WCC your way in from a clash there is no way for you to eat more than 17% damage unless the grundy player makes a mistake. If you get a hit after getting back in and use one bar you do the 33% that they got back from a clash(also remember they used 4 bars to get that back so thats massive damage potential essentially wasted entirely)and another 17% on top of that. If you can explain how the clash kills grundy after reading what I just wrote then please do because I honestly just dont see it.
 

BaronVonRupert

"Mere child's play."
i believe he says clash kills grundy because you may not get in again or lose out on life trying. in some situations losing life isn't the end of the world but it can be, especially in his harder matches and when time isn't on your side. personally i do like the b1 reset but i also like the unclashable trait. either or works for me. if neither are there, then i just can't see myself playing this character unless he were to be super buffed.
 

Scorp-Zero

Salty Shazam
i believe he says clash kills grundy because you may not get in again or lose out on life trying. in some situations losing life isn't the end of the world but it can be, especially in his harder matches and when time isn't on your side. personally i do like the b1 reset but i also like the unclashable trait. either or works for me. if neither are there, then i just can't see myself playing this character unless he were to be super buffed.

Just because Grundy has bad match-ups after clashes you're going to drop him?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I agree thats its a dumb website whos entire purpose is childish, but certain people(1trueking and muffin muggers are great examples)just act in a way that makes me wish I had a list of people to never interact with and just ignore when I see them post. What you did by completely ignoring points in a discussion because "you play with pig so you must be right" just isnt a positive look. This thread is here so we who play the character can discuss what is best for the character.




Im just trying to say that I believe(and I could be very very very wrong, the frame data in the game is wrong so I cant just do math)that by removing frames of advantage to stop the reset, it would make the low option in the vortex jumpable. This would kill his vortex and his best tick throw option out of the b1 because the opponent would just look to see if grundy telegraphs his b1 and if he doesn't j2 would full combo punish the low or the grab option. As of right now he still has the mind games on throw, he still has the mind game with the vortex, and he still has the threat of a guaranteed 31% after a b1.

There is no doubt in my mind that clashing hurts grundy in a positional sense, just like there is no doubt in my mind that taking away the reset would hurt grundy. He had an unfair advantage at launch and they patched it for balance. I just feel that 31% unclashable damage that can be gotten off a tick throw, or armored to beat a lot of strings, or can be done as a wake up attack is just too much. If every other character in the game has to do unclashable combos if they dont want to be clashed then why doesnt grundy? I feel it doesnt kill him at all because on any hit he will do 33%+meterless, and with meter that breaks 50%. If someone clashes grundy, yes, he will be sent full screen and have to go back in. Once he is in though he will only need one hit(and not even need any meter)to make that clash irrelevant. If you have the life lead and defense chain on the clash was already irrelevant in the first place. I know for a fact that if you dash and block your way in, or WCC your way in from a clash there is no way for you to eat more than 17% damage unless the grundy player makes a mistake. If you get a hit after getting back in and use one bar you do the 33% that they got back from a clash(also remember they used 4 bars to get that back so thats massive damage potential essentially wasted entirely)and another 17% on top of that. If you can explain how the clash kills grundy after reading what I just wrote then please do because I honestly just dont see it.
This is all under OPTIMAL conditions

I know for a fact that not ever person trying to keep Grundy out is going to do exactly what you want them to do.
Again... you're missing the entire point

BTW... Bane gets free wakupe 30% moves with armor......so does CW.... that is not an "unfair" advantage. They both get these off of their trait btw.... and CW's is a full invinc wakeup attack.

He was actually more in line with the rest of the cast with he had both options.
If they shaved 3-4 frames off the advantage that makes his f3 OH more prevelant in the mixup game.... because your opponent still has to commit to whatever they're going to do.... be it jump block whatever.

and no..... no one with a brain would ever use all 4 bars ..... because they KNOW the Grundy isn't going to wager any meter, because he needs it to get that damage he just dealt back.

You're also not taking into account people who are smart and would just clash immediately.... and then you DON"T gain back the damage you would have given, as well as lose positioning.

Grundy with unclashable trait would give him the option of doing his massive damage... or taking 30% and oki.... creating an entirely NEW gameplan in line with what a grappler is..... not this BS vortex character that beats up on people that don't really understand him... and gets crushed by anyone with a tiny bit of MU experience.
 

BaronVonRupert

"Mere child's play."
Just because Grundy has bad match-ups after clashes you're going to drop him?
no, what i said was if he got nerfed AGAIN with no buffs to actually help him out i would drop him and probably the game for that matter because it would tell me that NRS has no idea what they're doing. now i don't think that will happen but we'll see.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
This thread is getting too hostile and too personal for me.

I'm leaving thi thread alone
I agree thats its a dumb website whos entire purpose is childish, but certain people(1trueking and muffin muggers are great examples)just act in a way that makes me wish I had a list of people to never interact with and just ignore when I see them post. What you did by completely ignoring points in a discussion because "you play with pig so you must be right" just isnt a positive look. This thread is here so we who play the character can discuss what is best for the character.




Im just trying to say that I believe(and I could be very very very wrong, the frame data in the game is wrong so I cant just do math)that by removing frames of advantage to stop the reset, it would make the low option in the vortex jumpable. This would kill his vortex and his best tick throw option out of the b1 because the opponent would just look to see if grundy telegraphs his b1 and if he doesn't j2 would full combo punish the low or the grab option. As of right now he still has the mind games on throw, he still has the mind game with the vortex, and he still has the threat of a guaranteed 31% after a b1.

There is no doubt in my mind that clashing hurts grundy in a positional sense, just like there is no doubt in my mind that taking away the reset would hurt grundy. He had an unfair advantage at launch and they patched it for balance. I just feel that 31% unclashable damage that can be gotten off a tick throw, or armored to beat a lot of strings, or can be done as a wake up attack is just too much. If every other character in the game has to do unclashable combos if they dont want to be clashed then why doesnt grundy? I feel it doesnt kill him at all because on any hit he will do 33%+meterless, and with meter that breaks 50%. If someone clashes grundy, yes, he will be sent full screen and have to go back in. Once he is in though he will only need one hit(and not even need any meter)to make that clash irrelevant. If you have the life lead and defense chain on the clash was already irrelevant in the first place. I know for a fact that if you dash and block your way in, or WCC your way in from a clash there is no way for you to eat more than 17% damage unless the grundy player makes a mistake. If you get a hit after getting back in and use one bar you do the 33% that they got back from a clash(also remember they used 4 bars to get that back so thats massive damage potential essentially wasted entirely)and another 17% on top of that. If you can explain how the clash kills grundy after reading what I just wrote then please do because I honestly just dont see it.
Not to be rude...but so far your the only one who is saying keep the reset. Maybe we are not all wrong. I like the vortex...I really do. But let's just play online for fun and grow the character.
 

1truking

Apprentice
This looks familiar, just without the rage.
Probably because you're also an idiot. Not surprisingly others agreed in the thread. You simply couldn't fathom that some people play games they don't enjoy simply because they're good at them and can make some money at it. You thought that kane was trolling when he told me he isn't proud of being good at marvel or that there are a lot of people who play it who don't enjoy it. Hell I played tekken long after I quit enjoying it simply because people expected me to play. Same with marvel 1 I was talked into playing in a tournament even though I didn't play or enjoy it and I placed top 5. Motivation is different for a lot of people.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Probably because you're also an idiot. Not surprisingly others agreed in the thread. You simply couldn't fathom that some people play games they don't enjoy simply because they're good at them and can make some money at it. You thought that kane was trolling when he told me he isn't proud of being good at marvel or that there are a lot of people who play it who don't enjoy it. Hell I played tekken long after I quit enjoying it simply because people expected me to play. Same with marvel 1 I was talked into playing in a tournament even though I didn't play or enjoy it and I placed top 5. Motivation is different for a lot of people.

Apparently you didn't read my last post in that thread where I admitted I was wrong about it. I had respect for you after that, but now I'm not so sure anymore.
 

1truking

Apprentice
Apparently you didn't read my last post in that thread where I admitted I was wrong about it. I had respect for you after that, but now I'm not so sure anymore.
Nope I was asked to stay out of the thread by somebody I respected so didn't bother to read your last post. My bad for not reading it though. If it makes you feel better I think everybody is an idiot.
 

Nonameformedude

That Yung Big Body
This is all under OPTIMAL conditions

I know for a fact that not ever person trying to keep Grundy out is going to do exactly what you want them to do.
Again... you're missing the entire point

BTW... Bane gets free wakupe 30% moves with armor......so does CW.... that is not an "unfair" advantage. They both get these off of their trait btw.... and CW's is a full invinc wakeup attack.

He was actually more in line with the rest of the cast with he had both options.
If they shaved 3-4 frames off the advantage that makes his f3 OH more prevelant in the mixup game.... because your opponent still has to commit to whatever they're going to do.... be it jump block whatever.

and no..... no one with a brain would ever use all 4 bars ..... because they KNOW the Grundy isn't going to wager any meter, because he needs it to get that damage he just dealt back.

You're also not taking into account people who are smart and would just clash immediately.... and then you DON"T gain back the damage you would have given, as well as lose positioning.

Grundy with unclashable trait would give him the option of doing his massive damage... or taking 30% and oki.... creating an entirely NEW gameplan in line with what a grappler is..... not this BS vortex character that beats up on people that don't really understand him... and gets crushed by anyone with a tiny bit of MU experience.
Of course not, thats where playing the game comes in. My main thing with the not wanting an unclashable trait is its just you asking to not have to play the game. You get clashed like everyone else and you dont like that. You want it easy instead of having to do unclashable combos and play the game. Tell me the point im missing then, dont just say im missing the point.

Bane gets 30% by going level 3 and on debuff from level three because of the movement speed reduction on his walk/dash AND strings he becomes basically unplayable. You literally have to just pushblock until you are off level 3 or risk eating 150% damage from anyones bnb. Bane was the worse example you could use.

How was he more inline with the rest of the cast when he had almost double anyone unclashable damage?
I dont understand what you are trying to say here, the b1 is still faster so why would you throw out the f3 and give them more time to react?

Look, listen to what im saying. Lets say I doo 113 and they clash on 1. I have 1 bar of meter and they have 4. I dont use any bars and they use 4. They get 33% back. I WCC twice then hit confirm 2xxswamphands(mb), j2, b1, reset trait grab. I just did 51%. I did not care that they clashed at all because I knew once I got one hit they would lose alll the health they got back from the clash plus 17%. Another example to make sure what im saying is being understood. I meter burn a trait grab and im clashed on the hit of the grab. I have 0 meter and they have 4 bars. They use all four bars and get 33% back. I then block and dash until im in range to land f13. I hit confirm f13, 11xx4. I do 35% they just used 4 bars and without any meter I just took it right back away plus 2 %. That is why I dont think clashes kill grundy. He outdamages the clash gain on any bnb.

The only thing the clash does is put you in bad positioning. If you can land a hit, that clash meant nothing. Grundy with unclashable trait is a crutch for people who dont want to play injustice the way it was meant to be played. The clash was put in the game for a reason, why is that so hard to just deal with? Grundy still has every part of his game. He just doesnt get a free 31% TBH the vortex is something that is clutch and can pull him back from a massive deficit on one hit, or give him an extra boost of damage to a normal bnb. Why are you against options with a character, how is spending meter and using a vortex that has risk BS?
 

ll Nooby ll

To Live is to Die
My suggestions;

This goes to all command grab characters, unless the move clearly puts the character airborne, they should be able to get grabbed.

As it stands Grundy's grab is the only cg in the game that can be avoided with Catwoman's Cat Evade move. I'd like to see that changed so she can be grabbed.

Grundy's grab is the only cg in the game that can be parried. His grab should not be able to be parried.
 

1truking

Apprentice
My suggestions;

This goes to all command grab characters, unless the move clearly puts the character airborne, they should be able to get grabbed.

As it stands Grundy's grab is the only cg in the game that can be avoided with Catwoman's Cat Evade move. I'd like to see that changed so she can be grabbed.

Grundy's grab is the only cg in the game that can be parried. His grab should not be able to be parried.

Technically his trait isn't really a command grab though its more like a normal grab. Can walking corpse be parried? I thought I tested and it couldn't and thats technically a command grab.

I agree they should remove unthrowable frames but thats another thing I asked about and its not something that is going to happen.
 

ll Nooby ll

To Live is to Die
Technically his trait isn't really a command grab though its more like a normal grab. Can walking corpse be parried? I thought I tested and it couldn't and thats technically a command grab.

I agree they should remove unthrowable frames but thats another thing I asked about and its not something that is going to happen.
Walking cannot be parried, and is pretty much similar to all the other cg's. I can agree with this though.
 

Gruff757

The Gruff
eh, at this moment i dont really want aything changed for grundy, the things i did want changed (ungrabable frames and wcc input change) have been shot down as king has already stated.

i stopped giving a fuck about the unclashable trait and stopped relying so much on the reset lately.


Grundy has a vortex?
 

1truking

Apprentice
Holy shit. Guys you all need to chill right now.

1truking Nonameformedude NRF CharlieMurphy

No more attacking each other.
O-KAY. Now, about dat b1 reset. I think that is Grundy's main bull shit by far. I would be devastated if that was removed.
I love it I just don't think it would be the end if it was gone like other people. Especially if you just changed b1 to +22 you actually promote the vortex style of play with b1/f1 if you land a d2 if the guaranteed reset is removed I would like to see a major buff. Unclashable trait is nice but it just means we'll get clashed earlier in the round anyway so its not a huge deal. The only time unclashable trait really came into play is if your opponent was just bad. You could always clash the initial trait throw in a combo anyway so people just clash that hit instead of the later ones. Its only useful for landing a raw trait/mb trait in most situations.
 

1truking

Apprentice
I think the greatest Grundy buff would be a Superman nerf..

Also, he should lose the reset.
I'm in the minority but I've played a lot of good supermans and I still prefer that match to the black adam and hawkgirl matches. Unless they nerf his armor breaking on the trait or give it significant down time and nerf the damage/chip damage on his lasers it probably won't change much of the fight.
 

1truking

Apprentice
eh, at this moment i dont really want aything changed for grundy, the things i did want changed (ungrabable frames and wcc input change) have been shot down as king has already stated.

i stopped giving a fuck about the unclashable trait and stopped relying so much on the reset lately.


Grundy has a vortex?
Grundy's "vortex" is based off the reset so do your normal combo j2 b1 then from there you're +22 you can choose to take your 31% or you can do f1 or b1. f1 you can either go straight into swamp hands again or f13 11 sh b1 you can either do your trait for 31% or try another b1/f1. As I and others have pointed out sacrificing a guaranteed 31% for a mixup that can honestly be blocked on reaction with some practice and by some I'm not talking learning to react to hellfire/teleport I'm talking the initial animation looks totally different and you can react to them if you see arm movement block high if you see leg block low. It works if you use it against people who don't know any better or as a surprise tactic.

Its pretty good against aquaman since he's going to trait anyway you can b1/f1 and hit him or even grab him and still get the unscaled damage. especially since the aquaman's tend to think they can just sit and block with trait up.