Born On a Monday -- Solomon Grundy General Discussion/QA/Combo Thread

[1truking]

Oh wow....ok so many ideas.

-I don't want 2x on every trait option that would be broken...but, having the ability to get 2x on one trait OR linking two different traits to be able to get 1x on two different traits would be fair.

-To the grave AA should be unclashable throw

-MB version of To the grave to pop up and be clashable.

-Take out the reset from b1 to trait...BUT if you do this...then do this...
-Increase link time from b1 mb grave rot for practical combo potential to increase damage at the cost of a bar.

-Regular grave rot should have a blockable hitbox on startup that is +1 on block. Dont change anything else about the move except a hitbox on startup. On hit it pushes them back with minimal hitstun...maybe 8-9 frames.

To help with Characters that stay in the air:

...without adding brand new moves, I don't know what to do without breaking him. If certain characters get nerfed this wont matter.

Think people are overreacting a bit on taking away the reset. Its main use is off d2 which leads to 50% instead of 27%. Off his other starters you can do pretty high damage as it is. You do 52% on a 112 as opposed to 59%. f13 is slower but I you should be able to break 40% with 1 bar. Typically if I land a f13 I do meterless damage anyway to build my meter.

I don't think having trait stack is a overpowered I also don't think its that useful. Honestly the only traits he needs are health and defense. Power adds what 10-15% damage and he's already doing 50% on almost any hit confirm. The only matches stacking trait would change the game would be deathstroke, superman, cyborg, and sinestro with slight help in green lantern, killer frost, batman and maybe green arrow. Most cases I don't care that I can only land the health chain. I see suggestions like this and 2 points of armor on swamp hands from non grundy players and I honestly wonder what they're thinking. In most cases these only help him in a few matches(batman, killer frost mainly with a slight help on superman) but don't really fix overall problems . A better way to buff him is to nerf some of the others. Nerf supermans trait so it doesn't break armor and you just made 4+ matches a lot tougher for superman including the grundy match.

The things that would universally help not all are amazing ideas and could make him op

faster moves 1/d1 8 frame would help a lot. faster f1 even if it was only 15 frames. faster swamp hands start up.
safer moves bf2/db1
ability to block cancel his dash or faster dash similiar to bane's improved dash. That would be a game changer for most of his bad matches.
Walking corpse cancel being a button press or a universal direction (dd,uu, not crossing up) I've been told this won't happen though
faster meter building

 

[Nonameformedude]

You do realize that the "reset" will still probably exist... just not in the capacity that you are wanting it to be

I've lost more games than I can count because most of my damage comes from the clash, and because by that time.... I usually only have a bar left.... so they gain all the health because Grundy needs his meter.

I'd much rather be able to just drop a combo and go into the pain chain knowing they'll die every time. That alone would create more fear and more mistakes. Now that they can clash the pain chain..... there is no fear of guessing wrong in the "vortex"... because they'll be able to clash it no matter what. It used to be you could drop a combo (usually at the MB SH part) and time out the grab so that it didn't combo and gave you a free 31% for the win.

So yeah..... i would def. want the reset gone if I could have my unclashable trait back. He still does 50%+ damage on almost every touch. IF they took away just a few frames of advantage off b1.... you'd still be able to toss out f1,3 and mixup from there.

Grundy was much better when you couldn't clash his trait.

That is because you only have one bar left. Imo the only time grundy should be using meter which is very precious to him for damage is on maybe four situations. To catch someone with swamp hands on read or punish(if you whiff this you have made a huuuge mistake though and wasted 50% possible damage). To make standing 2xxcleaver spin safe on block. To do a WC set up. Finally in a combo that you have already hit confirmed. If you keep your meter use down to just these situations, and try not to abuse situation number one and whiff your MB swamp hands then you shouldnt have just one bar left by the end of the match.

I just explained that even if they gained all 33% back, that means nothing to grundy. As you just said "he still does 50%+ dmg on every hit so after they clash and you still have that one bar you just save said bar. Block dash/WC your way in, then land one hit. Thats everything they got back from the clash plus 20%. Clashes are not hurting grundys game, its just making you have to work like every other character in the game. Grundy has unclashable combos if you honestly feel the trait being clashable is too much, and he even has a way to turn his unclashable combo into a setup for another unclashable combo(I honestly think he is the only person who has such a set up)if you have the meter for it. Since it only take two bars to do 100% you should have the meter to do his unclashable extension.

I dont think its possible to take away the advantage on his b1 so that you cant land your grab without also altering his ability to reset with b1/f1, and that is where the character becomes great. Having the threat of being reset twice and being dead is much more fear and mistake inducing than having his trait be unclashable. As it is right now people mostly clash grundy on his trait, we want that. If you land a combo into swamp hands and they wait for trait to clash then you were just given a free unclashable 31% with the option to extend that combo into a set up for another 19% unclashable damage. A set up that nets you a free grave rot to add more unclashable damage if you like. I can not stress enough that his trait being clashable really just fair for the damage he puts out, and makes the meta game in our favor

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

That is because you only have one bar left. Imo the only time grundy should be using meter which is very precious to him for damage is on maybe four situations. To catch someone with swamp hands on read or punish(if you whiff this you have made a huuuge mistake though and wasted 50% possible damage). To make standing 2xxcleaver spin safe on block. To do a WC set up. Finally in a combo that you have already hit confirmed. If you keep your meter use down to just these situations, and try not to abuse situation number one and whiff your MB swamp hands then you shouldnt have just one bar left by the end of the match.

I just explained that even if they gained all 33% back, that means nothing to grundy. As you just said "he still does 50%+ dmg on every hit so after they clash and you still have that one bar you just save said bar. Block dash/WC your way in, then land one hit. Thats everything they got back from the clash plus 20%. Clashes are not hurting grundys game, its just making you have to work like every other character in the game. Grundy has unclashable combos if you honestly feel the trait being clashable is too much, and he even has a way to turn his unclashable combo into a setup for another unclashable combo(I honestly think he is the only person who has such a set up)if you have the meter for it. Since it only take two bars to do 100% you should have the meter to do his unclashable extension.

I dont think its possible to take away the advantage on his b1 so that you cant land your grab without also altering his ability to reset with b1/f1, and that is where the character becomes great. Having the threat of being reset twice and being dead is much more fear and mistake inducing than having his trait be unclashable. As it is right now people mostly clash grundy on his trait, we want that. If you land a combo into swamp hands and they wait for trait to clash then you were just given a free unclashable 31% with the option to extend that combo into a set up for another 19% unclashable damage. A set up that nets you a free grave rot to add more unclashable damage if you like. I can not stress enough that his trait being clashable really just fair for the damage he puts out, and makes the meta game in our favor

Listen...i'm not reading this wall of text.

All i'm saying is that he doesn't need the reset to get damage...he can do combos with the best of them. just make his trait unclashable (OMG its a get out of corner free card) and add the other balance suggestions I made. With a few thousand offline games against people of Atlanta, I think I deserve the right to be heard. These things will fix him. YEs it will move him up on the tier list...but thats the point. He still wont be the best in the game.

Grave rot buff I'm suggesting may add 1-2% to pressure situations...not a big deal. MB grave rot will fix him not being able to get guaranteed reset. Honestly it becomes a 50/50 which is better for him and the opponent...less bitching.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Think people are overreacting a bit on taking away the reset. Its main use is off d2 which leads to 50% instead of 27%. Off his other starters you can do pretty high damage as it is. You do 52% on a 112 as opposed to 59%. f13 is slower but I you should be able to break 40% with 1 bar. Typically if I land a f13 I do meterless damage anyway to build my meter.

I don't think having trait stack is a overpowered I also don't think its that useful. Honestly the only traits he needs are health and defense. Power adds what 10-15% damage and he's already doing 50% on almost any hit confirm. The only matches stacking trait would change the game would be deathstroke, superman, cyborg, and sinestro with slight help in green lantern, killer frost, batman and maybe green arrow. Most cases I don't care that I can only land the health chain. I see suggestions like this and 2 points of armor on swamp hands from non grundy players and I honestly wonder what they're thinking. In most cases these only help him in a few matches(batman, killer frost mainly with a slight help on superman) but don't really fix overall problems . A better way to buff him is to nerf some of the others. Nerf supermans trait so it doesn't break armor and you just made 4+ matches a lot tougher for superman including the grundy match.

The things that would universally help not all are amazing ideas and could make him op

faster moves 1/d1 8 frame would help a lot. faster f1 even if it was only 15 frames. faster swamp hands start up.
safer moves bf2/db1
ability to block cancel his dash or faster dash similiar to bane's improved dash. That would be a game changer for most of his bad matches.
Walking corpse cancel being a button press or a universal direction (dd,uu, not crossing up) I've been told this won't happen though
faster meter building

The reset makes all of his bnb's 50% and it gives teh option of a vortex if you have meter. Taking that away would KILL the character, I honestly dont know why this is even something people are discussing. You gave another great example of d2 the only way for grundy to get reasonable damage is to use the reset. Then 27% tunrs into 50% all because someone wanted to jump in on you, thats how you create fear in an opponent. If DS does a sword flip you standing 2xxswamphands(mb), j2, b1,reset trait grab. He just took 50% for using a move. Guess he wont be using sword flip for the rest of the match

If one bar for mb swamp hands into a trait reset grab does 50% why would you do anything else(other than the vortex), it doesnt make any sense. You are using a bar and getting less damage. This is a buff nerf thread so im not going to go into why his power chain is amazing. Faster frames on those would be kool, but lets just make standing 2 faster so grundy has a stronger footsie tool. bf2 isnt meant to be safe ever, and db1 is safe if you meter burn it.

Why do you say they wont change the WCC input?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Snip

This is all theory fighting and taking advantage of people not making the correct read

with an unclashable trait... you do not need to make a right read... or burn more meter into a vortex.

You simply get 30%+ damage.

Why are you fighting me on this? My suggestion still leaves in the same situations you just described. I took non of them away. I'm just taking away the fact that b1 leads to a FREE trait grab no matter what. Your situations will still be there.

Nothing you've said has went over my head.... but everything I've said has been pushed aside..... when in fact it makes the character stronger and less gimmicky.

 

[1truking]

The reset makes all of his bnb's 50% and it gives teh option of a vortex if you have meter. Taking that away would KILL the character, I honestly dont know why this is even something people are discussing. You gave another great example of d2 the only way for grundy to get reasonable damage is to use the reset. Then 27% tunrs into 50% all because someone wanted to jump in on you, thats how you create fear in an opponent. If DS does a sword flip you standing 2xxswamphands(mb), j2, b1,reset trait grab. He just took 50% for using a move. Guess he wont be using sword flip for the rest of the match

If one bar for mb swamp hands into a trait reset grab does 50% why would you do anything else(other than the vortex), it doesnt make any sense. You are using a bar and getting less damage. This is a buff nerf thread so im not going to go into why his power chain is amazing. Faster frames on those would be kool, but lets just make standing 2 faster so grundy has a stronger footsie tool. bf2 isnt meant to be safe ever, and db1 is safe if you meter burn it.

Why do you say they wont change the WCC input?

if DS does sword flip you can do 112 sh mb b3 j3 11 trait for 52% without the reset. The only combo it really hurts is d2 which you typically don't get off them jumping in on you because the hit box is mainly over his head. A lot of d2 are punishes and if they're ducking you can't get a 50%.

One starter is hurt by removing it the rest he still does a lot of damage. Its like unclashable trait. Its nice but its not as bad as people think. still get 50% on a 112 get 35% on a f13 without meter so you should be able to get better with meter. I'm thinking f13 11 mb sh j2 f13 trait or 11 trait would net you pretty solid damage.

As to your last question because I asked.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The reset makes all of his bnb's 50% and it gives teh option of a vortex if you have meter. Taking that away would KILL the character, I honestly dont know why this is even something people are discussing. You gave another great example of d2 the only way for grundy to get reasonable damage is to use the reset. Then 27% tunrs into 50% all because someone wanted to jump in on you, thats how you create fear in an opponent. If DS does a sword flip you standing 2xxswamphands(mb), j2, b1,reset trait grab. He just took 50% for using a move. Guess he wont be using sword flip for the rest of the match

If one bar for mb swamp hands into a trait reset grab does 50% why would you do anything else(other than the vortex), it doesnt make any sense. You are using a bar and getting less damage. This is a buff nerf thread so im not going to go into why his power chain is amazing. Faster frames on those would be kool, but lets just make standing 2 faster so grundy has a stronger footsie tool. bf2 isnt meant to be safe ever, and db1 is safe if you meter burn it.

Why do you say they wont change the WCC input?

dude
his first version BNB's did 50% as well
112~MB swamp hands b3 j3 11 trait did that damage

the reset just made his d2 give him 50% no questions asked..... thats what made it good

 

[xInfra Deadx]

#GruffBundy

 

[Nonameformedude]

Listen...i'm not reading this wall of text.

All i'm saying is that he doesn't need the reset to get damage...he can do combos with the best of them. just make his trait unclashable (OMG its a get out of corner free card) and add the other balance suggestions I made. With a few thousand offline games against people of Atlanta, I think I deserve the right to be heard. These things will fix him. YEs it will move him up on the tier list...but thats the point. He still wont be the best in the game.

Grave rot buff I'm suggesting may add 1-2% to pressure situations...not a big deal. MB grave rot will fix him not being able to get guaranteed reset. Honestly it becomes a 50/50 which is better for him and the opponent...less bitching.

Listen, saying you wont read this wall of text just pisses me off. That wall of text is there so you will understand why makin his trait unclashable is just an excuse so you have to think less playing grundy. Read it and learn something

He does BETTER damage than most off of one bar BECAUSE of the reset. That is obvious and right in front of you. He does MORE DAMAGE THEN YOUR OPPONENT WILL GET BACK FROM CLASH with one bar using the reset. CLASHES MEAN NOTHING.
I dont care who you have played with, right now you are suggesting something that will ruin my character that I have played just as many matches with since the launch of this game. I think I deserve to have my reasoning read and not ignored because you dont want to think. I gave you the resepect of reading everything you wrote and thinking and writing up a response. What you just did was disrespectful and tbh stupid. He will never be the best in the game because he cant control airspace, but taking away his reset will lower him as a character in the game.

Your grave rot buff is just another thing you want to make him a character that you dont have to think with, just play the character and get better at the game.

 

[Nonameformedude]

dude
his first version BNB's did 50% as well
112~MB swamp hands b3 j3 11 trait did that damage

the reset just made his d2 give him 50% no questions asked..... thats what made it good

The first version does 50 if you start with a j2, and regardless you have the reset gives you the option to start a vortex for the same damage. Its all around better, there is no question in that

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The first version does 50 if you start with a j2, and regardless you have the reset gives you the option to start a vortex for the same damage. Its all around better, there is no question in that

for pure damage

not for the character

being able to clash what make shim good...... the trait buffs themselves are needed.

the problem is you are missing our point entirely... and are stictly focused on the pure damage the reset gives him..... but nothing else.
The 50/50's and vortexes do not change.
The only thing that changes is that once you are in the Pain Chain.... you are eating all the damage.

 

[Nonameformedude]

This is all theory fighting and taking advantage of people not making the correct read

with an unclashable trait... you do not need to make a right read... or burn more meter into a vortex.

You simply get 30%+ damage.

Why are you fighting me on this? My suggestion still leaves in the same situations you just described. I took non of them away. I'm just taking away the fact that b1 leads to a FREE trait grab no matter what. Your situations will still be there.

Nothing you've said has went over my head.... but everything I've said has been pushed aside..... when in fact it makes the character stronger and less gimmicky.

Nothing I have said is just theory. Im not pushing what you are saying aside im giving my opinion on it

I said that I dont think you can alter the advantage of b1 yet keep the vortex. If it can be thats great, but its still a bad trade off to making his trait unclashable. I already gave my reasons on why his trait being clashable is not a problem to any grundy player who can do a bnb. He simple outdamages the amount that they recover on a single hit. its not a problem. Its mainly a buff players want because they dont like being clashed. Thats it. You dont like being clashed like everyone else in the game so you want it changed.
The reason im fighting you on this is because the reset to me IS the character, its where his damage and vortex are. The fact that two wrong guesses and three bars of meter kills someone make his like killer frost only easier. I dont want players suggesting that gets taken away. I dont want to see my character messed up because some people didnt like being clashed

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Listen, saying you wont read this wall of text just pisses me off. That wall of text is there so you will understand why makin his trait unclashable is just an excuse so you have to think less playing grundy. Read it and learn something

He does BETTER damage than most off of one bar BECAUSE of the reset. That is obvious and right in front of you. He does MORE DAMAGE THEN YOUR OPPONENT WILL GET BACK FROM CLASH with one bar using the reset. CLASHES MEAN NOTHING.
I dont care who you have played with, right now you are suggesting something that will ruin my character that I have played just as many matches with since the launch of this game. I think I deserve to have my reasoning read and not ignored because you dont want to think. I gave you the resepect of reading everything you wrote and thinking and writing up a response. What you just did was disrespectful and tbh stupid. He will never be the best in the game because he cant control airspace, but taking away his reset will lower him as a character in the game.

Your grave rot buff is just another thing you want to make him a character that you dont have to think with, just play the character and get better at the game.

lol dude you are crazy.

I want it unclashable because when you work 80% of the match to get someone like ZOD or Sinestro to the corner because you can't catch them AND you lose most of your health in the process AND you have not landed a trait grab yet for Chip...how the FUCK can you win if they clash your trait grab?

Not only do you lose your ability to get trait, you are mid screen and they can continue to zone you or kill you with intractables. It DOES matter who I have played because guys like AK Pig Of The Hut are the best in the business and it gives me insight into his hardest MU.

Maybe its you who doesn't want to change the way he plays...maybe its you who doesn't want to think about how to mix in the chain throw to widen the metagame.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Nothing I have said is just theory. Im not pushing what you are saying aside im giving my opinion on it

I said that I dont think you can alter the advantage of b1 yet keep the vortex. If it can be thats great, but its still a bad trade off to making his trait unclashable. I already gave my reasons on why his trait being clashable is not a problem to any grundy player who can do a bnb. He simple outdamages the amount that they recover on a single hit. its not a problem. Its mainly a buff players want because they dont like being clashed. Thats it. You dont like being clashed like everyone else in the game so you want it changed.
The reason im fighting you on this is because the reset to me IS the character, its where his damage and vortex are. The fact that two wrong guesses and three bars of meter kills someone make his like killer frost only easier. I dont want players suggesting that gets taken away. I dont want to see my character messed up because some people didnt like being clashed

all it would take is 1-2 frames less advantage to make the trait thow escapeable after a b1

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

lol dude you are crazy.

I want it unclashable because when you work 80% of the match to get someone like ZOD or Sinestro to the corner because you can't catch them AND you lose most of your health in the process AND you have not landed a trait grab yet for Chip...how the FUCK can you win if they clash your trait grab?

Not only do you lose your ability to get trait, you are mid screen and they can continue to zone you or kill you with intractables. It DOES matter who I have played because guys like AK Pig Of The Hut are the best in the business and it gives me insight into his hardest MU.

Maybe its you who doesn't want to change the way he plays...maybe its you who doesn't want to think about how to mix in the chain throw to widen the metagame.

I should let you just keep posting what is on my mind
#GRUFFBUNDY

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I should let you just keep posting what is on my mind
#GRUFFBUNDY

hmmmmm...whats on your mind now?

ummm. Bowl of ice cream sounds good!

 

[Nonameformedude]

lol dude you are crazy.

I want it unclashable because when you work 80% of the match to get someone like ZOD or Sinestro to the corner because you can't catch them AND you lose most of your health in the process AND you have not landed a trait grab yet for Chip...how the FUCK can you win if they clash your trait grab?

Not only do you lose your ability to get trait, you are mid screen and they can continue to zone you or kill you with intractables. It DOES matter who I have played because guys like AK Pig Of The Hut are the best in the business and it gives me insight into his hardest MU.

Maybe its you who doesn't want to change the way he plays...maybe its you who doesn't want to think about how to mix in the chain throw to widen the metagame.

You are just a disrespectful asshole. Thats why someone took the time to put you on mksevertrash.

Are you saying zod didnt work 80% of that match? When they do a combo is it not clashable, or do they have to alter it and make it clashable? You are making excuses because you are losing a shit ton in a bad match up and you want it easier. If hes chipping you get the first hit and apply the defense chain. You can win by playing amazing grundy or switching to NW if you arent good enough with grundy in the MU. Thats why I play bane and GL

You lose 31 damage with like I have said 9+times grundy gets in one combo. If you dont like the game MU then stop playing it. All you have told me in that jumble of pointless words is that Pig is better than you and you are mad.

I am not suggesting changing him to make him more brain dead so its you who doesnt want to change the way he play, which is apparently poorly. I have already though a shit ton about the character and that is shown in my posts on the forum. If you ever want to run some matches im on XBL.

 

[1truking]

You are just a disrespectful asshole. Thats why someone took the time to put you on mksevertrash.

Are you saying zod didnt work 80% of that match? When they do a combo is it not clashable, or do they have to alter it and make it clashable? You are making excuses because you are losing a shit ton in a bad match up and you want it easier. If hes chipping you get the first hit and apply the defense chain. You can win by playing amazing grundy or switching to NW if you arent good enough with grundy in the MU. Thats why I play bane and GL

You lose 31 damage with like I have said 9+times grundy gets in one combo. If you dont like the game MU then stop playing it. All you have told me in that jumble of pointless words is that Pig is better than you and you are mad.

I am not suggesting changing him to make him more brain dead so its you who doesnt want to change the way he play, which is apparently poorly. I have already though a shit ton about the character and that is shown in my posts on the forum. If you ever want to run some matches im on XBL.

Wow you went to server trash? Thats a sign that you've lost the arguement.

First off his basic bnb doesn't need a jump in to break 50%. 112 sh b3 j3 11 trait is 52%. 112 sh nj2 b1 trait is 59%. He loses 7% and thats not much for his damage. f13 combos do 35%+ meterless. Add meter you break 40 close to 50 its some loss but not a lot. The ONLY thing he loses is the d2. If your grundy is based on d2 reset then it explains a lot about why you're struggling in certain matches. d2 11 sh j2 f13 11 trait or f13 trait should break 30% possibly get you close to 40%. It hurts but its a minor one. Personally if I land a d2 I usually go for meterless damage unless I absolutely need that 50% and I know I'm not the only grundy who is willing to sacrifice damage for meter in situations like that.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

You are just a disrespectful asshole. Thats why someone took the time to put you on mksevertrash.

Are you saying zod didnt work 80% of that match? When they do a combo is it not clashable, or do they have to alter it and make it clashable? You are making excuses because you are losing a shit ton in a bad match up and you want it easier. If hes chipping you get the first hit and apply the defense chain. You can win by playing amazing grundy or switching to NW if you arent good enough with grundy in the MU. Thats why I play bane and GL

You lose 31 damage with like I have said 9+times grundy gets in one combo. If you dont like the game MU then stop playing it. All you have told me in that jumble of pointless words is that Pig is better than you and you are mad.

I am not suggesting changing him to make him more brain dead so its you who doesnt want to change the way he play, which is apparently poorly. I have already though a shit ton about the character and that is shown in my posts on the forum. If you ever want to run some matches im on XBL.

Play it out...add my tag. Its exactly like my name on here. i'll be on this week at some point after work in the evenings. Winner gets his posts validated coolio?

 

[Nonameformedude]

Wow you went to server trash? Thats a sign that you've lost the arguement.

First off his basic bnb doesn't need a jump in to break 50%. 112 sh b3 j3 11 trait is 52%. 112 sh nj2 b1 trait is 59%. He loses 7% and thats not much for his damage. f13 combos do 35%+ meterless. Add meter you break 40 close to 50 its some loss but not a lot. The ONLY thing he loses is the d2. If your grundy is based on d2 reset then it explains a lot about why you're struggling in certain matches. d2 11 sh j2 f13 11 trait or f13 trait should break 30% possibly get you close to 40%. It hurts but its a minor one. Personally if I land a d2 I usually go for meterless damage unless I absolutely need that 50% and I know I'm not the only grundy who is willing to sacrifice damage for meter in situations like that.

There was no argument, we are talking about a game. Its not something to argue over, especially if we arent even playing right now. The tension came when one person completely ignored another persons points because they didnt care to read some paragraphs. Paragraphs that were only made that long because things seem to need to be repeated over and over again before they sink in. I went to server trash when there was a post about psycho(muggers)and I looked at the list and saw some names I felt really didnt belong there. Yours is not one of them. Lords was, but then he acted like he was too good to read my comment and he has done nothing in the injustice world to prove that, especially not with grundy. We'll play it out, thats how fighting games work lol

You are correct about the bnb, I was cutting the 2 from the 112 in my thought of the bnb. Regardless of the bnb my point here was that trading the reset for making his trait unclashable is not only not necessary, but it could ruin him if it effects his vortex. If the frame advantage that allows the reset is really only 1 or 2 frames and it wouldnt effect the vortex then thats great, but his trait should still be clashable. Asking for a free unclashable 31% because you are grundy is just an excuse for not wanting to do an unclashable combo that every other character in the game has to do to stop from being clashed(sans unclashable special moves, but none of those do 31%).

Whats really happening here is that we all want grundy to have an easier time winning. One side wants his trait to be unclashable so they can secure an ez 31% grab with armor to finish the opponent. In my opinon because his trait can be armored thats just too strong, and because he does 50% ez on a bnb its just not needed. On the other side I want him to keep his reset which allows him to get 50% in a place it really shouldnt(but his d2 has faults so it doesnt happen often), and to always have the knowledge that if I land my b1 I can grab and there isnt a damn thing they can do about it instead of having two options(block the high/low mix up, or jump the grab).

Taking away his vortex would kill the character, but if you took away his reset while keeping the vortex it would just make him slightly more thought inducing. I admit that and thats fine. Giving him a free 31% of unclashable damage is just asking for NRS to hold your hand through the match. That I am not fine with. As long as grundy does 50% in any bnb, his trait should stay clashable

 

[1truking]

There was no argument, we are talking about a game. Its not something to argue over, especially if we arent even playing right now. The tension came when one person completely ignored another persons points because they didnt care to read some paragraphs. Paragraphs that were only made that long because things seem to need to be repeated over and over again before they sink in. I went to server trash when there was a post about psycho(muggers)and I looked at the list and saw some names I felt really didnt belong there. Yours is not one of them. Lords was, but then he acted like he was too good to read my comment and he has done nothing in the injustice world to prove that, especially not with grundy. We'll play it out, thats how fighting games work lol

You are correct about the bnb, I was cutting the 2 from the 112 in my thought of the bnb. Regardless of the bnb my point here was that trading the reset for making his trait unclashable is not only not necessary, but it could ruin him if it effects his vortex. If the frame advantage that allows the reset is really only 1 or 2 frames and it wouldnt effect the vortex then thats great, but his trait should still be clashable. Asking for a free unclashable 31% because you are grundy is just an excuse for not wanting to do an unclashable combo that every other character in the game has to do to stop from being clashed(sans unclashable special moves, but none of those do 31%).

Whats really happening here is that we all want grundy to have an easier time winning. One side wants his trait to be unclashable so they can secure an ez 31% grab with armor to finish the opponent. In my opinon because his trait can be armored thats just too strong, and because he does 50% ez on a bnb its just not needed. On the other side I want him to keep his reset which allows him to get 50% in a place it really shouldnt(but his d2 has faults so it doesnt happen often), and to always have the knowledge that if I land my b1 I can grab and there isnt a damn thing they can do about it instead of having two options(block the high/low mix up, or jump the grab).

Taking away his vortex would kill the character, but if you took away his reset while keeping the vortex it would just make him slightly more thought inducing. I admit that and thats fine. Giving him a free 31% of unclashable damage is just asking for NRS to hold your hand through the match. That I am not fine with. As long as grundy does 50% in any bnb, his trait should stay clashable

Taking away his vortex does nothing. I've explained in another post exactly why the vortex is a bad idea.

Its funny though that you think I belong on server trash considering Tom Brady used to have me respond to people for him because I did it better. Quite a bit of how I act and respond to people is because of the post there. That and I honestly do think the vast majority of you are moron's. Or maybe I'm just playing a role again.

I'll say it again. First off lets ignore the fact you can react to grundy's vortex options off b1 with training since the motions for the low and the overhead start totally different. The other issue with it is that you're trading significant guaranteed damage for potential damage. lets assume you land 112 sh j2 b1 thats 28% you have a guaranteed 31% or you can do b1 which i believe is 7% or f1. If you land the b1 then you get another option or you can take your guaranteed damage. If you land the f1 you have to spend meter to go back into the vortex if you don't you get about 35% which is only 4% more than you would've gotten anyway so whats the point. If its a go to move for you then people will start labbing to realize their options to escape it. Reaction blocking is the easiest way to do it. You can just play the numbers since the f1 is the only way to get true significant damage out of it but again at the cost of meter. Assuming you do land the f1 combo and you're back in the reset lets say you did 28% though I think its 25% off that now you've landed 53%. So you've given up some guaranteed damage for a potential that can be reaction blocked and yes I went in and tested this myself.

I should also point out that you took several posts to understand the core concept here and you're still ignoring it. Removing the reset really doesn't hurt. Personally I'm in neither camp I don't care about having the unclashable trait or about keeping/losing the reset. In the end it is a minor impact to my game or most grundy's games. If you want to do vortex's I'd suggest batgirl or sinestro not grundy.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Taking away his vortex does nothing. I've explained in another post exactly why the vortex is a bad idea.

Its funny though that you think I belong on server trash considering Tom Brady used to have me respond to people for him because I did it better. Quite a bit of how I act and respond to people is because of the post there. That and I honestly do think the vast majority of you are moron's. Or maybe I'm just playing a role again.

I'll say it again. First off lets ignore the fact you can react to grundy's vortex options off b1 with training since the motions for the low and the overhead start totally different. The other issue with it is that you're trading significant guaranteed damage for potential damage. lets assume you land 112 sh j2 b1 thats 28% you have a guaranteed 31% or you can do b1 which i believe is 7% or f1. If you land the b1 then you get another option or you can take your guaranteed damage. If you land the f1 you have to spend meter to go back into the vortex if you don't you get about 35% which is only 4% more than you would've gotten anyway so whats the point. If its a go to move for you then people will start labbing to realize their options to escape it. Reaction blocking is the easiest way to do it. You can just play the numbers since the f1 is the only way to get true significant damage out of it but again at the cost of meter. Assuming you do land the f1 combo and you're back in the reset lets say you did 28% though I think its 25% off that now you've landed 53%. So you've given up some guaranteed damage for a potential that can be reaction blocked and yes I went in and tested this myself.

I should also point out that you took several posts to understand the core concept here and you're still ignoring it. Removing the reset really doesn't hurt. Personally I'm in neither camp I don't care about having the unclashable trait or about keeping/losing the reset. In the end it is a minor impact to my game or most grundy's games. If you want to do vortex's I'd suggest batgirl or sinestro not grundy.

Dude who are you? You drop relevant peoples names, but I have never seen you on stream or seen youtube footage of your matches. Some faceless grundy forum poster isnt going to tell me that his vortex isnt viable when I use it all the time. I think you belong there because my first forum interaction with you was you completely disregarding a write up to puts your bad opinion on something you didnt read. Then immediately insult me and make empty threats because you are in your safe anonymous zone where nobody can reach out and touch you. Thats what trash does.

You do realize that whole paragraph is just you putting out numbers for no reason and saying, "I will never get hit by this because I can react to it" twice. Any vortex is giving up a certain amount guaranteed damage for the option of an overhead/low mix up that they must block plus a potential increase in damage, did you even read what you wrote before posting it? The vortex that I have explained costs meter to do does at least 25% on each on the high or low option(the low option does 27)and both options end with a b1 setting up a free trait grab for an extra 31%. Though it does take three bars and any two resetting hits, it also gives you a bar back on completion and does 100%+ damage. and because he has the free reset into trait your opponent should already know that after the b1 the pain chain is guaranteed and are most likely going to just going to be holding back/preparing their next move or preparing to clash the trait grab. We havent even gone into the fact that even if you always went with f13 you get a tick trait throw on block that can be changed to dead air to beat jumps and to walking corpse to beat interrupts(or just armor the trait). For you to just discard that option makes you instantly horrible in my mind, booty sweat as some would say.

No, it took until lord said taking away one or two frames of advantage wouldnt change the vortex for me to understand that taking away the reset wont effect the vortex. Frankly im still not quite sure thats true because you can jump the throw if its just a few frames off and jumping also gets you out of the low. This would turn the options from blocking the overhead/low mixup or get grabbed into block the overhead or jump 2 punish the grab and low. Then you would literally only have to watch for grundys overhead which he telegraphs hela hard Completely. Killing. The. Vortex.

 

[Scorp-Zero]

b1 forces standing during a juggle (Just like zatana's f2). Slightly decrease hit stun on b1 so they can jump out of it, but enough advantage so that d2 will connect if they do jump. That would make and interesting mix up for Grundy IMO

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

There was no argument, we are talking about a game. Its not something to argue over, especially if we arent even playing right now. The tension came when one person completely ignored another persons points because they didnt care to read some paragraphs. Paragraphs that were only made that long because things seem to need to be repeated over and over again before they sink in. I went to server trash when there was a post about psycho(muggers)and I looked at the list and saw some names I felt really didnt belong there. Yours is not one of them. Lords was, but then he acted like he was too good to read my comment and he has done nothing in the injustice world to prove that, especially not with grundy. We'll play it out, thats how fighting games work lol

It's pretty low to bring up MKST. That shit is totally out of context.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Dude who are you? You drop relevant peoples names, but I have never seen you on stream or seen youtube footage of your matches. Some faceless grundy forum poster isnt going to tell me that his vortex isnt viable when I use it all the time. I think you belong there because my first forum interaction with you was you completely disregarding a write up to puts your bad opinion on something you didnt read. Then immediately insult me and make empty threats because you are in your safe anonymous zone where nobody can reach out and touch you. Thats what trash does.

You do realize that whole paragraph is just you putting out numbers for no reason and saying, "I will never get hit by this because I can react to it" twice. Any vortex is giving up a certain amount guaranteed damage for the option of an overhead/low mix up that they must block plus a potential increase in damage, did you even read what you wrote before posting it? The vortex that I have explained costs meter to do does at least 25% on each on the high or low option(the low option does 27)and both options end with a b1 setting up a free trait grab for an extra 31%. Though it does take three bars and any two resetting hits, it also gives you a bar back on completion and does 100%+ damage. and because he has the free reset into trait your opponent should already know that after the b1 the pain chain is guaranteed and are most likely going to just going to be holding back/preparing their next move or preparing to clash the trait grab. We havent even gone into the fact that even if you always went with f13 you get a tick trait throw on block that can be changed to dead air to beat jumps and to walking corpse to beat interrupts(or just armor the trait). For you to just discard that option makes you instantly horrible in my mind, booty sweat as some would say.

No, it took until lord said taking away one or two frames of advantage wouldnt change the vortex for me to understand that taking away the reset wont effect the vortex. Frankly im still not quite sure thats true because you can jump the throw if its just a few frames off and jumping also gets you out of the low. This would turn the options from blocking the overhead/low mixup or get grabbed into block the overhead or jump 2 punish the grab and low. Then you would literally only have to watch for grundys overhead which he telegraphs hela hard Completely. Killing. The. Vortex.

It's not just overhead low grab mix up...it's tic throws (he has a dozen of them) and wcc mixups too. The grab will most likely be free if you make them respect all his other options.

The point we were all making is that by giving up a couple frames and free damage, it allows Vrundy to play mind games that will likely yield the same damage in the end. The the clash thing Is just needed. Clashing KILLS Grundy. I don't know how to make you believe me