Tech Ares Tech

[UsedForGlue]

hit by this?

You clearly don't understand a single word of it.

 

[Cage Redfield]

So at best, you're trading MB DE with a Stand 1 so you can "hit-confirm" easier from d1? But how are you hit-confirming when this guess or "read" is a bar for a soft knockdown, instead of a bar for a full combo, like D4?

When I think of hit-confirming, I think tossing out F23 (as Supes) and canceling into trait when you've seen it has hit the opponent and following up with a BnB. F23 is 2 hits and launches, so it's super easy to hit-confirm.

Ares D1 xx D4 or D1 xx MB DE is a lone hit canceled into either an interruptible launcher or a projectile that sends the opponent in a soft knockdown. It's to combat people who would attempt to do a throw or a d1/stand 1 after blocking Ares' D1. This is more of a risky read with almost no payoff.

You can't hit-confirm d1 xx d4. You shouldn't be trying to. It's something you do for punishes, or when you yolo tele behind and bet everything that the opponent isn't ready for that.

 

[haketh]

This is some of the dumbest tech, this isn't sutff you should be going for in serious situations ever. Online you can get away with this but otherwise hell no, you're better off using D1, D4 in punish situations.

sigh people that have no idea what a frame is.

Frame data isn't everything, when you play FGs for much longer you'll realize this.

 

[Big Pampering]

You clearly don't understand a single word of it.

you didnt understand this:...

 

[DownfouralitY]

Let's try and stay on topic please. It's actually a pretty good discussion and I agree with the points UsedForGlue has been making. Honestly if hit confirming D1 can make me a better player I'm all for listening.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Let's try and stay on topic please. It's actually a pretty good discussion and I agree with the points UsedForGlue has been making. Honestly if hit confirming D1 can make me a better player I'm all for listening.

Unfortunately, D1 will never be able to be hit confirmed into a trait or whatever...unless you're a psychic

 

[redeyes]

you guys arnt under standing what UFG is saying he isnt saying hit confirm d1 d4 thts not possible there isnt enough adv.

hes saying ok you hit your d1

what are your options since youre now +9

but you also have to look into what your opponent does.

if they like to press buttons d1 d4 this time cause you know it will hit.
if they respect the d1 d4 follow up and say block low then throw out your OH cause they be low blocking since they respect the d1

its not like someone can throw out a 6frame d1 with only 4 frames to spare they have to commit to it.

they do they then hey the made the right read on u doing something that isnt d1.

its fighting games guys.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

So let me get this right Breakin Wordzz Because it still makes no sense to me.

If you are perfect with your execution (which you aren't judging by your first video, and also assuming you will go to a stacked offline event and still have perfect execution under extreme pressure) then you will spend a bar of meter to get a trade...And if you are wrong you will get full punished. At best, that's all that it is.

Is that your "game changing tech"? It doesn't sound it in the slightest and something I doubt will hold up in a stacked offline event. But that's only my opinion, and I don't know if anyone will ever prove me wrong on that, of course its on you and anyone that disagrees to do so. Present the tech, present the results. Simple.

It no doubt holds up extremely well in the uber competeitive and legitimate world of online injustice.

Only last week was I engaged in a conversation with a group of good offline players about how the best characters in the game (as we evolve) will evolve to be the ones that build the best meter, and spend none of it to get big damage in combos (roughly 35-45%) giving them more scope to fight with because of meter build (batman, wonder woman, nightwing, soon superman, sinestro etc) let alone characters that "have to" spend a bar of meter just because they don't want to hit confirm a poke, only to find themselfs at -3.

I find it mind numbing that the majority of players that agree with you, instead of hit confirming a d1 would rather flush down a bar of meter. Is that what this boils down to?

You are desperately avoiding your real issue. Hit confirming. Instead attempting ways to stop your opponents punishing your short comings.

Am I the only one that sees the bigger picture? I think so.

Its not that hard to do anyways. The opponent has to be really on point even if i mess up. Some characters cant interrupt it even if i do mess up. Ares isn't the most meter dependent character in the game he does about 40% to 60% meterless. whats the point of batman doing 112 MB bats just for more pressure? because it opens up possibilities.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

This is more of a risky read with almost no payoff.

No. If they block its almost like a push block so batman cant combo you for 45% free, ect. If they do get hit by it it knocks them down at about mid screen opening up ares possibilities.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

This is some of the dumbest tech, this isn't sutff you should be going for in serious situations ever. Online you can get away with this but otherwise hell no, you're better off using D1, D4 in punish situations.


Frame data isn't everything, when you play FGs for much longer you'll realize this.

what do you mean online you can get away with it?

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

If anything is is for the people that try to counter poke after d1.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

So let me get this right Breakin Wordzz Because it still makes no sense to me.
Is that your "game changing tech"? It doesn't sound it in the slightest and something I doubt will hold up in a stacked offline event.

I don't care if this isn't the best tech in the world. I uploaded this because of a discussion in the ares MU thread where people were wondering what can ares do about kill frost's slide.
This is good against people like you or anyone that has good fundamentals where they see the opponent do a d1 on block so you go in for pressure but when you go in for pressure the DA hits you.

 

[Crathen]

I guess there's no point to continue arguing about Ares strings into MB DE / d4 / GS , yes they are gimmick , yes you can hit confirm d1 ( NOT d1d4 ) and go for pressure strings but unless you're not willing to COMMIT doing d1d4 you're playing Ares without a low launcher ( unless we want to count 3d4 wich is the only legit unterruptable OH / low mixup ).

The way i see d1d4 is like an unsafe low launcher ( but instead of being block punishable is interruptable ) , it makes sense otherwise it would be pretty abusable since d4 is advantage on block.

Also people shitting on soft knockdown of MB DE need to get real , midscreen if Ares outzones the other character i'll gladly take it , and in the corner he still is at advantage even if you techroll it.

Lastly i might add that using this is not giving up hit confirming a d1 poke , d1d4 has its uses as a punisher and as an interrputing and mixup ( along with MB DE and MB GS ) tool , it's not something to go to whenever i can mash a d1 and i never claimed it to be.

This isn't game changing tech by any means but it's not worth shitting on just because you can hit confirm d1.

 

[UsedForGlue]

I've said everything I care to say about this, I'm tired of it already. You either want your advanatge from landing a d1, or you just have a hard on for throwing away meter.

There is literally nothing more I can say before I start going around in circles. You either get it, or you don't. Either way, it's not my problem.

 

[4x4lo8o]

but you also have to look into what your opponent does.

if they like to press buttons d1 d4 this time cause you know it will hit.
if they respect the d1 d4 follow up and say block low then throw out your OH cause they be low blocking since they respect the d1

its not like someone can throw out a 6frame d1 with only 4 frames to spare they have to commit to it.

they do they then hey the made the right read on u doing something that isnt d1.

its fighting games guys.

Please pick up Ares and try this(preferable offline against decent players, but whatever's possible for you) before you continuing insisting that it's a good idea for Ares players to be doing.

I can tell you from experience the relying on b2 is a poor idea. Opponents can react to it and attempting that mix up is not going to get you anything. You have to commit to d1~d4 sometimes to make your opponent respect your low launcher. If you're never using d1~d4 in the neutral game the opponent has no reason to respect your d1, they know that every time they get hit by d1 they get another chance to block(and this time they're expecting and can block low until they see the overhead)

It's not like you should be doing d1~d4 every single time you throw out a d1 either(unless you're strictly using d1 as a punish, but that has its own problems), but if you're too scared to ever just throw a d1~d4 then people are going to walk all over you.

 

[redeyes]

Please pick up Ares and try this(preferable offline against decent players, but whatever's possible for you) before you continuing insisting that it's a good idea for Ares players to be doing.

I can tell you from experience the relying on b2 is a poor idea. Opponents can react to it and attempting that mix up is not going to get you anything. You have to just throw out d1~d4 sometime to make your opponent respect your low launcher. If you're never using d1~d4 in the neutral game the opponent has no reason to respect your d1, they know that every time they get hit by d1 they get another chance to block(and this time they're expecting and can block low until they see the overhead)

It's not like you should be doing d1~d4 every single time you throw out a d1 either(unless you're strictly using d1 as a punish, but that has its own problems), but if you're too scared to ever just throw a d1~d4 then people are going to walk all over you.

so mixing up is a bad idea when your +9

i should also go for d1 and lose my frame advantage if they block?

 

[4x4lo8o]

UsedForGlue, what do you think Ares players should be hit confirming d1 into?

He get so little off of any follow up(anything other than d1 and 22 is back dashable, and any overhead can be reacted to) and by not every using d1~d4 you're essentially taking away his only low launcher and removing what little mix up game Ares has

 

[redeyes]

UsedForGlue, what do you think Ares players should be hit confirming d1 into?

He get so little off of any follow up(anything other than d1 and 22 is back dashable, and any overhead can be reacted to) and by not every using d1~d4 you're essentially taking away his only low launcher and removing what little mix up game Ares has

if u can react to 16 frames u are pretty god damn good.

 

[redeyes]

UsedForGlue, what do you think Ares players should be hit confirming d1 into?

He get so little off of any follow up(anything other than d1 and 22 is back dashable, and any overhead can be reacted to) and by not every using d1~d4 you're essentially taking away his only low launcher and removing what little mix up game Ares has

b2,1 is +3 allowing for another d1 check so even if they block it they gotta guess again.
i dont think 22 is backdashable when your +9 gotta double check though
even so if they backdash congrats they made a good read. now you have to calculate a plan for their backdash.

like ffs are people all about set in stone cookie cutter play styles?

 

[4x4lo8o]

so mixing up is a bad idea when your +9

i should also go for d1 and lose my frame advantage if they block?

I don't understand what you're talking about here. I wasn't the one saying to go for d1 after d1 on hit and the only thing I said about mix ups is that b2/d1 isn't one that you want to rely on. I mean, I even just said that you shouldn't be using d1~d4 every time, that you should be mixing in other options. Obviously I think mix ups are a good idea

if u can react to 16 frames u are pretty god damn good.

What 16 frame overhead does Ares have?
And when the only low Ares has requires him to be crouching and at point blank, and the opponent knows a mix up is coming because Ares is at frame advantage it's not that hard to block a 19 frame overhead

But as I said before, please don't take my word for it. Go try it. People will block b2 all day long. I'm not making shit up, I went through a phase when the game came out when I tried to make b2 a viable option. Ares has to lean heavily on d1~d4. Every Ares player in the forum appears to understand this, but non-Ares players know better apparently

 

[Crathen]

if u can react to 16 frames u are pretty god damn good.

No to guess , just mashing backdash gets you out of everything other than 112 or another d1 , backdashing a b23 leaves Ares open to punishment depending on the backdash ( WW can backdash and b113 punish ) and he is one of the worst at punishing backdashes ( slow jump arc and no long range normals other than b13 ).

Ares is a YOLO character , we just gotta accept it.

 

[redeyes]

I don't understand what you're talking about here. I wasn't the one saying to go for d1 after d1 on hit and the only thing I said about mix ups is that b2/d1 isn't one that you want to rely on. I mean, I even just said that you shouldn't be using d1~d4 every time, that you should be mixing in other options. Obviously I think mix ups are a good idea




What 16 frame overhead does Ares have?
And when the only low Ares has requires him to be crouching and at point blank, and the opponent know a mix up is coming because Ares is at frame advantage

But as I said before, please don't take my word for it. Go try it. People will block b2 all day long. I'm not making shit up, I went through a phase when the game came out when I tried to make b2 a viable option. Ares has to lean heavily on d1~d4. Every Ares player in the forum appears to understand this, but non-Ares players know better apparently

why id b2 d1 now useful?

one is OH one is a low.

they must respect the d1 if you hit a d1 since your plus 9 they block low you go for the OH if they block it do b21 and your +3 allowing for the same game to be played.

he has a 19 frame one sorry. but WW's is 17 and i use that perfectly fine in the mix up game.

 

[4x4lo8o]

b2,1 is +3 allowing for another d1 check so even if they block it they gotta guess again.
i dont think 22 is backdashable when your +9 gotta double check though
even so if they backdash congrats they made a good read. now you have to calculate a plan for their backdash.

like ffs are people all about set in stone cookie cutter play styles?

22 is not back dashable, that's what I said

We're not set in stone about cookie cutter playstyles, we're annoyed that you're on our forum insisting that tactics that we've tried and know don't work well are better than what we're using

 

[redeyes]

No to guess , just mashing backdash gets you out of everything other than 112 or another d1 , backdashing a b23 leaves Ares open to punishment depending on the backdash ( WW can backdash and b113 punish ) and he is one of the worst at punishing backdashes ( slow jump arc and no long range normals other than b13 ).

Ares is a YOLO character , we just gotta accept it.

you punish backdashes with a forward dash into normals.

forward dashes recover quicker then back ones.

 

[redeyes]

and 22 is back dashable,