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Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

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Belial

Belial

Kombatant
ApocaLips said:
Can we discuss KF's options against the strong air-based opponents? Particularly those who can rush her down nearly for free due to KF's lack of mid-range and long-range air control. I'm worried about, in no particular order:

(1) Black Adam
(2) MMH
(3) Superman
(4) Wonder Woman

I see these four butchering KF right now - they can run circles around her, and she can't chase them down or control their mobility unless they predictably airdash right into d2 range.

Given that Bladam and Superman are probably the #1 and #2 most used/successful tourney characters, I think finding strong answers here is essential to her tournament viability. I.e., if she can't deal, and these matchups are 3-7s, we're not going to see her in top 8 again, at least not as a primary.

I personally don't see any options for these hugely problematic key matchups, and accordingly I'm exploring other options. I might keep her as a pocket answer to some top tiers that she does well against, such as Aquaman and possibly Batman and Flash. But I can't recommend anyone main her when she is particularly weak against the most popular and problematic characters in the game.
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Did you see my thread? Adam and Supes are covered
http://testyourmight.com/threads/belials-guides-to-killer-frost.36692/
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Warrior
xKhaoTik said:
KF does fine against superman and wonder woman. I'm getting tired of saying this...

Who cares if they win in the air? Stop jumping and play patient. Stop airdashing and walk your way in.

Superman doesn't bop her at all. I have that as 5-5 and some KF players think she wins. She has the tools to deal with him. She's one of the few characters he can't play brain dead against.

WW is 5-5 as well. Don't jump and fight her on the ground. WW can't wake up at all because of the meterless vortex. Parry works wonders in this MU as well.

I can't comment on the MMH mu as I have yet to play reo. I just know she can deal with his tele and he can't wake up due to the meterless vortex. His only option is the push, which is his best wakeup.

Black Adam beats her for sure, but its only 4-6. He shuts down her mobility and zones her out pretty bad. I still can't punish divekick.


KF is a walking touch of death. Just play patient with her. All she needs is on touch and they are playing her game.
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sounding like DJT, just walk em down, I like that strategy, works well.
 
AC_Jard

AC_Jard

twitch.tv/fresnogaminglive
Hey guys I uploaded a FT5 set I ran with a friend who plays Superman. I wanted to upload this to get some advice about my frost from the community not only about the matchup but my approach of playing her.
- I know there were alot of drops and I realized after the set I could have maximized more of my options.
-I need to definitely utilize D1 slide more. I just actually started using this but really still haven't used it
-I also think i had some really bad slide placement in some of the matches too

But yea any advice is welcome. I really want to level her up and represent her in tournament play!

 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
xKhaoTik said:
How are you guys feeling about zod and zatanna?
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I don't really have any experience with either character...

Mr. Mileena is putting time into Zatanna so I will probably start playing him soon. I picked her up and played her for a few hours and I don't see it being bad for KF, some of the zoning and teleports on reaction to stuff that she can make whiff might be annoying.

I played P2W's Zod a few matches and I didn't think it was hard at all...but P2W mains Sinestro and I am sure he really hasn't played Zod too seriously.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
The meterless vortex destroys zatanna bad. Her only wake up option is the multi kicks, and since we will be looking for that, we can just punish it on block with 111 slide. She's screwed when she's knocked down.

Zatanna also cannot punish spike from afar, but we can punish her trance anywhere.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
xKhaoTik said:
The meterless vortex destroys zatanna bad. Her only wake up option is the multi kicks, and since we will be looking for that, we can just punish it on block with 111 slide. She's screwed when she's knocked down.

Zatanna also cannot punish spike from afar, but we can punish her trance anywhere.
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True about the wake up options, but only crappy Zatanna's are going to randomly throw out trance imo. Iceberg is such a godlike punisher since it hits anywhere on screen luls.
 
AK cyusstrike

AK cyusstrike

Noob
Hey Frost community im going to post my latest tournament performance at our local Atlanta Kombat Arena that happens on Fridays this was this week's installment of our new tournament series I was able to showcase on stream 4 times and ill post my matches for viewing and critiques as well as tips to better my game play. I came in 4th place outta 18 yay me :).

cyusstrike vs Ichokeonkush (Batman)

Cyusstrike vs Storm the Gates(Supes/MM)

Cyusstrike vs Reno Racks(Batman)

Cyusstrike vs Ak_Harold (flash) semi Losers
http://www.twitch.tv/atlantakombat/b/450410045 (4:29:01)

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 4
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
This a set with my first good MMH. I had no idea that the OverHead TP can cross up....so I get hit by it quite often. Either way...this is a good set...I have some stellar parries and a lot of the matches were very close. How do you guys feel about this MU?
HazeJupiter
 
ApocaLips

ApocaLips

Dojo Trainee
RunwayMafia said:
How do you guys feel about this MU?
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I think it's alright now, but as MMH players get better and learn how to use his zoning to shut down areas of the screen, KF is going to have a really hard time getting in due to her limited movement. The MU is near even now, but will likely get worse over time.
 
osso

osso

Banned
hi, RunwayMafia. i'm going to give you some tips, if you don't mind.

- at the start of the round, mmh can do instant trait~3 which is one of the best moves to start a round off with.it usually snags the first hit on players who aren't aware. however! kf is one of the very few characters who can read this and punish if you predict he may go for it with mb parry ;)

- martian grab (db1) on block is -10. you can punish it with d+1~slide on block every time as long as you're in range. if you're outside the d+1 range, you can go for a free f3 or slide 50/50 check

- mmh can punish your iceberg on block with pillar so just be careful on how you use it


- if a mmh player likes to use his overhead teleport a lot in the neutral games, there are some ways you can handle this:

1.) way one is to read when he is going to do the overhead teleport and mb~b3 (which you were doing nicely).

2.) way two is you can forward dash it to make it whiff, and then punish it since he's open. (the phantom hitbox eats most backdashes).

3.) and way three which is killer frost exclusive. you can slide to make the overhead teleport whiff, and then punish. BUT this is most effective to use once you know how the mmh player likes to use his teleport. don't just randomly throw out slides. there are ways you can use slide to option select as a way of getting in or checking him while making the overhead teleport whiff. it's hard to explain on text, but think of it as multi-tasking and killing two birds with one stone type of thing.


- a lot of mmh players like to throw out b2~db1 which is overhead to low. make sure to always block low after the b2 overhead as it's more of a gimmick than a "mix-up".

- i noticed you fell for the cross-up overhead teleport a lot on knock down (i don't blame you at all since you said it was your first time playing against a good mmh - happens to everyone ;)). basically anytime he knocks you down and you're in your "getting up" animation, if he does a meaty overhead teleport that will connect on you during that specific "getting up" animation, it is a cross-up.


i hope the above helps. good play from the both of you. really nice parry use also.
 
ApocaLips

ApocaLips

Dojo Trainee
osso said:
martian grab (db1) on block is -10. you can punish it with d+1~slide on block every time as long as you're in range. if you're outside the d+1 range, you can go for a free f3 or slide 50/50 check
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Just being nitpicky, but f3 isn't a check here. F3 is 19 frames, so any move under 9 frames will beat it at -10. Slide and MB f3 are checks though, and at that point f3 becomes a useful mixup, so the advice is good. When doing something highly disadvantageous/unsafe, a lot of players tend to crouch block.

Side note - do you know if 22b3 is parryable between the 2 and b3? Seems like it would be, and that's useful for diffusing a chunk of MMH's close pressure.
 
osso

osso

Banned
ApocaLips said:
Side note - do you know if 22b3 is parryable between the 2 and b3? Seems like it would be, and that's useful for diffusing a chunk of MMH's close pressure.
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yes, you can interrupt with parry. but no need to waste meter on the parry. the gap between the 2 and b3 is eight frames. killer frost can interrupt with d+1~slide for full combo or interrupt with 1,1,1~into slide. :)
 
ApocaLips

ApocaLips

Dojo Trainee
osso said:
yes, you can interrupt with parry. but no need to waste meter on the parry. the gap between the 2 and b3 is eight frames. killer frost can interrupt with d+1~slide for full combo or interrupt with 1,1,1~into slide. :)
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I'd spend the meter for consistency. A 7 frame punish is a lot more lenient than 2.
 
EMPEROR_JUPITER

EMPEROR_JUPITER

Your ego betrays you.
it was a great set we ran, ended up being 17-17 lol. but the main problem you had in the mu was my OH teleport crossing up after b 1,3. and also that 22b3 is +4 so i get a free down 1, which i canceled into low grab alot.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
RunwayMafia something to help out with the MMH match up, 2,2 back 3 has a large gap so Killer Frost can MB parry for full combo, possibly down 1 or armor depending on whatever option you want to do. The best part is it can be done on reaction basically.

1,1, (2) can also be armored and parried. Great matches you and HazeJupiter had.
 
EMPEROR_JUPITER

EMPEROR_JUPITER

Your ego betrays you.
Espio said:
RunwayMafia something to help out with the MMH match up, 2,2 back 3 has a large gap so Killer Frost can MB parry for full combo, possibly down 1 or armor depending on whatever option you want to do. The best part is it can be done on reaction basically.

1,1, (2) can also be armored and parried. Great matches you and HazeJupiter had.
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the first hit of 1 is a high also, and im sure you could atleast d2 then slide between 22b3. now that you know this it looks like ill have to mix up my pressure options lol.
 
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