The Superman Nerf Chronicles

[Tony at Home]

Delayed MB lasers lol. What version are you playing. Only scrubs use MB lasers too. Good players will use it if they see you constantly crouch blocking normal lasers. Level up.

So.... Only scrubs use MB lasers....
But good players also use them...?

Wat

 

[Solid]

The point that people that bring up Superman not having any lows (mix up game) is stupid.

You're right lets give this guy even more reason to destroy everyone else. Besides he does have mix up game, it's just unsafe.

No he doesn't. You always block low and react to the slow ass overhead. There is no high low mix up. I don't know why you people can get this. You don't autopilot block low, block low, block high. You have to block low and observe, Oh the overhead is coming, block high. Then make your move.

 

[Solid]

So.... Only scrubs use MB lasers....
But good players also use them...?

Wat

Is it that hard to understand what I post? Or is the urge to troll that strong. Superman's game is to have super ready. Why would you want to waste meter on MB lasers. Superman doesn't want to zone. Superman's game is to get you to the corner for a quick death.

 

[Tony at Home]

Is it that hard to understand what I post? Or is the urge to troll that strong. Superman's game is to have super ready. Why would you want to waste meter on MB lasers. Superman doesn't want to zone. Superman's game is to get you to the corner for a quick death.

Ive seen KDZ use MB lasers.... Is he a scrub?

 

[Solid]

Ive seen KDZ use MB lasers.... Is he a scrub?

No he is not. He is actually an excellent player who does the same Superman stuff with Wonder Woman. He is a very cool guy on top of that. I've met him at VXG and he broke down about all his tech. It was also his opinion that MB lasers are a waste. They have their use, but only scrubs (the scrub part is my opinion only) will waste meter on them. I could also say that only scrubs get hit by MB lasers. Both opinions are true and untrue at the same time.

 

[Qwark28]

Nerf superman. His lasers and f23 are literally the only two things that make him stupid.

lets nerf all he has because i cant learn the matchup

next up, killer frost without legs

sinestro without ring

bane without veins

 

[Qwark28]

No he is not. He is actually an excellent player who does the same Superman stuff with Wonder Woman. He is a very cool guy on top of that. I've met him at VXG and he broke down about all his tech. It was also his opinion that MB lasers are a waste. They have their use, but only scrubs (the scrub part is my opinion only) will waste meter on them. I could also say that only scrubs get hit by MB lasers. Both opinions are true and untrue at the same time.

at evo ppl were getting hit all day and dropping their combos and going for f3 after that lol

and ppl ate those

 

[Tony at Home]

They have their use, but only scrubs (the scrub part is my opinion only) will waste meter on them. I could also say that only scrubs get hit by MB lasers. Both opinions are true and untrue at the same time.

"they have their use but only scrubs will waste meter on them"

And "true and untrue at the same time"?
Wat

Why do you keep doing that? Don't MB lasers do a small amount of extra chip? Could be useful for that extra little push over the edge. Is it a scrub move to do that?

Also, there is some irony in the statement that using a move makes someone a scrub.

 

[shoshinsha]

Do you know Superman's position in the DC universe? Would that answer your question why he is so great in this game? A DC game... ?

I already said that Superman's position in the DC universe is exactly the reason for his design in this game: he's their franchise character, so making him very good and VERY easy to play is a fantastic marketing tool. It's shitty for anyone who really wants to love and play this game for a long time, but it's great for getting the casual crowd and keeping them happy.

 

[THTB]

I find it funny we're still bitching about Supes, and literally Summer Jam comes and we see only one in top 16. Guess who that Supes player was...

 

[Tony at Home]

I find it funny we're still bitching about Supes, and literally Summer Jam comes and we see only one in top 16. Guess who that Supes player was...

A character's representation in the top 8 of any major shouldn't constitute whether or not a characters is imbalanced.

It's bad logic to assume a character needs nerfs just because they've filled many spots in top 8's.

It's also bad logic to assume a character doesn't need nerfs just because they haven't filled many spots in the top 8.

 

[THTB]

A character's representation in the top 8 of any major shouldn't constitute whether or not a characters is imbalanced.

It's bad logic to assume a character needs nerfs just because they've filled many spots in top 8's.

It's also bad logic to assume a character doesn't need nerfs just because they haven't filled many spots in the top 8.

It should be a factor when the only Supes in TOP 16 is also probably the most consistent Supes right now, and has been running into more troubles as time has gone on.

My point is people are learning what the fuck to do vs Supes now. He was Fo3Ms because people were refusing to do that.

 

[Tony at Home]

It should be a factor when the only Supes in TOP 16 is also probably the most consistent Supes right now, and has been running into more troubles as time has gone on.

My point is people are learning what the fuck to do vs Supes now. He was Fo3Ms because people were refusing to do that.

It wasn't like any of the Supes were knocked out by characters who we truly thought had no way to deal with Supes.

No Supes in the top 16, but it may be a different story if the characters in front of Superman were different.

 

[Solid]

"they have their use but only scrubs will waste meter on them"

And "true and untrue at the same time"?
Wat

Why do you keep doing that? Don't MB lasers do a small amount of extra chip? Could be useful for that extra little push over the edge. Is it a scrub move to do that?

Also, there is some irony in the statement that using a move makes someone a scrub.

It all depends. It is a waste against people who can fight Superman well but choose to block the lasers. It is better to save your meter for super and go for the kill that way. Just to have the threat of super changes many things.

If you meterburn the lasers for a punish it is also a waste in my opinion. I like to save my meter for super, for combos and for the MB B3/F3 gimmicks which I can afford by not wasting it on MB lasers which any decent player that decides to or is forced to, could easily block.

Do I use it? Sometimes. If I see my opponent crouchblocking all the time, he never stands up in anticipation of the MB then and only then I would use it if it will kill or when I am on my first bar and he already used his clash or when I'm fighting a scrub which can't get passed regular lasers.

Using the move doesn't make you a scrub. Wasting meter with the move against good players makes you a scrub.
I hope I answered everything you wanted to know.

 

[Tony at Home]

It all depends. It is a waste against people who can fight Superman well but choose to block the lasers. It is better to save your meter for super and go for the kill that way. Just to have the threat of super changes many things.

If you meterburn the lasers for a punish it is also a waste in my opinion. I like to save my meter for super, for combos and for the MB B3/F3 gimmicks which I can afford by not wasting it on MB lasers which any decent player that decides to or is forced to, could easily block.

Do I use it? Sometimes. If I see my opponent crouchblocking all the time, he never stands up in anticipation of the MB then and only then I would use it if it will kill or when I am on my first bar and he already used his clash or when I'm fighting a scrub which can't get passed regular lasers.

Using the move doesn't make you a scrub. Wasting meter with the move against good players makes you a scrub.
I hope I answered everything you wanted to know.

"Using the move doesn't make you a scrub"

Yes, THAT is actually the answer I was looking for

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

 

[PressBackToBlock]

Forget all this buff/nerf talk. I don't care what you pin it on: f23, zoning, mobility, pressure, corner damage, trait combos, etc. It's all part of a package. The simple fact is that Superman is an enormous outlier in this game. He has...

- the mobility, pressure, and mixups of a strong rushdown character
- the damage and resets of a strong bruiser
- the zoning of at LEAST a decent zoner, if not a good one
- one of the best traits in the game
- the best super in the game
- great meter-building ability
- minimal risk in all of his options
- extremely low execution demands

He is great at most things, good at everything else, bad at nothing, and easy to play. How is this ok?

Can you imagine the Flash with Superman's f23? Can you imagine Bane with Superman's mobility? Can you imagine Sinestro with Superman's up-close options? Can you imagine Doomsday with Superman's zoning? Can you imagine Shazam with Superman's trait? Can you imagine Deathstroke with Superman's super?

Sounds ridiculous, right? So why does Superman get all those tools at once? This has nothing to do with nerfing versus adapting. It's simply a question of whether or not you support efforts to make all characters as equally competitive as possible. If you do, there's no way to rationalize Superman's current toolbox.

Take me now, and take me hard

 

[KDZ]

- If you do his low execution combos you get his low execution damage.
- His trait vs Batmans, or Aquaman's? lol
- No mixup, you're gonna have to back down on this point. Because he doesn't have one. Characters who can achieve similar damage (more than him if he goes for the low-execution combos) have them.

He's a toolbox rushdown pressure bruiser. No mixup you can't easily react to, only character in the ENTIRE GAME without a jump in crossup.

That list you made describes Batman, aside from the super.
Superman is a simple, straightforward character who's scary because of A) potential damage, and B) he forces both players to make decisions constantly. He's about as broken as Rufus, with identical gameplay (Divekick / F23Breath both lead to low damage midscreen to push you into the corner for the highest corner damage, both force both players to make an immediate decision on block)..... and plenty of people said Rufus was broken in the first few months. And they were overreaction as well.

 

[haketh]

The Rufus comparison is pretty apt. Yeah like alot of people I thought this character was hella busted, but the more i play the game, watch high level Superman players, and work on my own stuff the more I realize people are just playing the MU extremely stupid. Is Supes a Top 5 character? Yeah. Is he this absolute monster who 7-3s everyone? Nah. I say he has about five losing MUs and a bunch of even ones with a few ones in his favor and one that's horrid for Grundy.

KDZ how do you think the Doomsday MU goes?

 

[KDZ]

Tough to say, it's literally a battle of reaction time.

 

[haketh]

Supes trait really hurts Doomsday but Doomsday kind of gets to run a train when he scores a knockdown, Supes doesn't have great all purpose wakeups. I think it's 5-5 unlike most other DD players.

 

[KDZ]

But what's being looked at there is flawed player mechanics.
I played noobie, at CEO in a LOT of casuals, who I consider to be the best DD player (at least at the time, I don't know the landscape of doomsville now).

I never had more fun playing up until that point, because I finally found someone with reaction time that matched (even at times surpassed) my own. His earthshaker is meaningless, and can't be accounted for in the matchup. A player should be able to block that on reaction, a vast majority of the time. So no knockdown trains are run, anywhere.

What it boils down to is that your F23 range and his d1 range are the same. The exception is that his is slightly faster. So there were times where the tension and pressure were mounting because I was hovering outside of d1 / f23 range, inching my way into range. Trying to bait a d1 whiff to F23 it. And if I whiffed F23, d1 would punish it. My favorite was when I inched to the very edge of the range, and did a stance switch, and punished his d1.

Getting your trait up in time to stop DD's is way harder than it looks, so there's a lot of times where he just has trait and is jumping all over you.

That match is 100% dependant on player ability, because the matchup changes viciously the more physical ability you have as a player to react to things.

 

[haketh]

Good points, also nice call on using stance change.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Delayed MB lasers lol. What version are you playing. Only scrubs use MB lasers too. Good players will use it if they see you constantly crouch blocking normal lasers. Level up.

you need to level up your knowledge, and know what the hell you are talking about.

start at 15 min 30 sec. Dalayed meter burn lasers.

 

[KDZ]

But he doesn't... outzone... any zoner...

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Since nerfing superman could cause a nerf train (and this is something that won't fair the game well), I suggest some universal changes would do us all well. A buff to walk speed and starting characters further back when the match begins would make it easier to fight superman in general and would be something that'd help all the characters and wouldn't leave anyone in the dust. So I suggest this instead. A nerf to superman would probably lead to a nerf to black adam, then etc.