Strategy True King of Atlantis -- Aquaman General Discussion Thread

[Zenrot]

Okay, so I'm confused about trait. You're suppose to be able to block the next hit while being comboed as long as you are not being juggled, correct? I must not be using this right because I'm not able to block after superman's freeze breath, catwoman's cat dash, batgirl's bola, etc. I'm holding backwards before I activate trait and it won't let me block the next hit after some of those attacks.

You're going eat a hit after activating trait in most circumstances (I say most because there may be hits you can trait on reaction to and still block the next hit, I'm not 100% on that). Best example I can give is Green Arrow. If you trait on reaction to being frozen, you're going to eat the b3. If you trait before the ice arrow hits you, you will block the b3. It's why you trait in the period between 111 and the overhead/low normals in Batgirl's vortex, you eat the first hit of the vortex which allows you to block the 2nd one which would normally launch you, preventing your trait from working. If you try to trait on reaction to getting hit by the normal, you're going up.

 

[Shawi]

lol

All the top players talk about how this site is full of useless and unhelpful posts where they label posters as "cry babies". Please explain to me how your post of "lol" educated me into appreciating that I have a misunderstanding of the character? How is your post useful and how is it that your post will educate me?

The reason I say his trait is okay and the current cool down time is acceptable, is because it needs to be activated in anticipation (in many specific match ups). I cant see a d1 icearrow from GA and then trait, because I will get hit by the B3. For me I see that as the trait "not working". If the trait was to "work" in such a situation, then absolutely 1000000000% increase the cool down time to 12 seconds. Can I again stress that this is my opinion, before you take out that Zod rifle and send me to timbuktu.

P.S. Big fan of your work in the community!

 

[FrozenG3oX]

O boy

Good luck Aquaman forums

Dude, you're cool and everything but sometimes you really like to sound like the biggest smart ass ever...you're a married man, act more mature than this.

 

[Zenrot]

Dude, you're cool and everything but sometimes you really like to sound like the biggest smart ass ever...you're a married man, act more mature than this.

Maturity goes both ways, you shouldn't go calling someone else out as immature any more than he should behave immaturely. Let's not make this an us vs. them thing, lets nip the potential derailment in the bud, as much as I appreciate the comment, it is just the internet. People are allowed to troll, act entitled, act like douches, or honestly do whatever they want because it has literally no bearing on who they actually are.

We were actually on a discussion about Aquaman's trait and potential nerfs that had potential to be really good before it got destroyed by us plebs getting put down. Lets do that again, but actually finish this time.

Aquaman players: Why do you think his trait is not deserving of a second nerf?

Non-Aqaman players reading this thread: Why do you think his trait is deserving of a nerf? (Please give us more to work with than "My standard BnB's don't work on him")

 

[FrozenG3oX]

Maturity goes both ways, you shouldn't go calling someone else out as immature any more than he should behave immaturely. Let's not make this an us vs. them thing, lets nip the potential derailment in the bud, as much as I appreciate the comment, it is just the internet. People are allowed to troll, act entitled, act like douches, or honestly do whatever they want because it has literally no bearing on who they actually are.

We were actually on a discussion about Aquaman's trait and potential nerfs that had potential to be really good before it got destroyed by us plebs getting put down. Lets do that again, but actually finish this time.

Aquaman players: Why do you think his trait is not deserving of a second nerf?

Non-Aqaman players reading this thread: Why do you think his trait is deserving of a nerf? (Please give us more to work with than "My standard BnB's don't work on him")

I didn't anything about not nerfing him...its fair to make the cooldown last for 12 seconds, maybe even 14...

 

[Zenrot]

I didn't anything about not nerfing him...its fair to make the cooldown last for 12 seconds, maybe even 14...

I wasn't specifying you, I was just making a blanket statement to the two sides most likely to hold that opinion.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

Nope.

Why not?

 

[Sajam]

It's fitting that the Aquaman forums are the saltiest place on the planet.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

Why not?

I just don't think he'll make it in the game.He wasn't even in Boon's polls

 

[Zenrot]

It's fitting that the Aquaman forums are the saltiest place on the planet.

Silly Sajam, you've clearly never been to the Scorpion forums. Also I think most Shazam players are still bitter that Tom Brady thinks their character is good, which means he's never getting buffed ever again.

Someone tag me when we actually go back to talking about real things, because I still wanna do that, but it'll save me the time from sifting through the jokes.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

It's fitting that the Aquaman forums are the saltiest place on the planet.

What are you talking about ? you bored, son ?

 

[Shawi]

Aquaman players: Why do you think his trait is not deserving of a second nerf?

Non-Aqaman players reading this thread: Why do you think his trait is deserving of a nerf? (Please give us more to work with than "My standard BnB's don't work on him")

Again, I think it doesn't need a nerf because of the way in which it works. If it were a straight up ground combo breaker then 8 seconds is too short and it should be 12-14. But because vs many characters like killer frost (CG), green arrow (IA), superman (Breath), batgirl (Bola), scorpion (SP) and grundy (SH), to name some from the top of my head, the trait will reduce cool down time meaning it needs to be used in anticipation rather than on reaction. This way you are making a read in using the trait. Read wrong and you activate for no effect. This is the way I see it tbh.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

Again, I think it doesn't need a nerf because of the way in which it works. If it were a straight up ground combo breaker then 8 seconds is too short and it should be 12-14. But because vs many characters like killer frost (CG), green arrow (IA), superman (Breath), batgirl (Bola), scorpion (SP) and grundy (SH), to name some from the top of my head, the trait will reduce cool down time meaning it needs to be used in anticipation rather than on reaction. This way you are making a read in using the trait. Read wrong and you activate for no effect. This is the way I see it tbh.

They'll nerf either way cause people complain soo yea...

 

[Shawi]

They'll nerf either way cause people complain soo yea...

Yeah but Mr. Zenrot desperately wanted justification as to why it shouldnt be nerfed

 

[Zenrot]

Yeah but Mr. Zenrot desperately wanted justification as to why it shouldnt be nerfed

I don't desperately want justification for anything, I just think a communities job is to discuss things and point out flaws/ways other players can better themselves/their tools instead of crying and hating on everything and everyone.

For instance, your analysis of Aquaman's trait:
Partially correct, you cannot do it on reaction, but you rarely need to. Matches like GA and Batgirl have points in time where you simply should put trait on wether you actually end up blocking or not, because it protects you in the instance you end up not blocking. If you're in a D1 war with Green Arrow or you see the mixup coming, trait and then try to block. Did you block the mixup? Congrats, keep playing. Did you get hit? It's okay, you aren't getting combo'd. Batgirl is a similar principle.

Killer Frost is irrelevant because she devalidates trait anyway.

Edit: Elaborating a bit more

The 8 second cooldown time facilitates trait usage in this style simply because Aquaman's buttons are so good that 8 seconds is not a terribly long time to not get hit. Extending the cooldown time to 1 use per 14 seconds (we'll say 14 since Pig's range was between 12-16 seconds), trait becomes harder to use this way and increases the list of characters that can more easily work around the tool. Batgirl remains more or less unchanged, considering the character actually has workarounds to Aquaman's trait in a lot of situations but the main one (negating Vortex) is something she just has to deal with. Green Arrow would benefit from less pre-emptive traiting.

Although I'd like to see people actually try to work around the trait more instead of getting their b3's blocked after ice breath and calling foul. There are characters that blatantly devalidate our trait (ex. Killer Frost), Can easily work around the trait but have to alter their game-plan a little bit in order to accommodate (ex. Green Lantern), and characters that just have to hold that and can do absolutely nothing about it (ex. Harley Quinn).

 

[ArcticLacertilia]

His trait is fine the way it is.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Here is what I would say about nerfing Aquamans trait. I agree with AK Pig Of The Hut that the cool down should be nerfed significantly. Not because it is too good, but because in certain matchups it is very braindead and makes matchups lopsided (like Flash or Zatanna or Harley). So nerfing the trait will make him less of a braindead character, which is good. However, then there are matchups that would become harder (Black Adam comes to mind). So I think they could give him something very small as a buff somewhere else (maybe someone can think of an idea here) that way his matchup chart isnt so lopsided, and he would require more thought.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

Here is what I would say about nerfing Aquamans trait. I agree with AK Pig Of The Hut that the cool down should be nerfed significantly. Not because it is too good, but because in certain matchups it is very braindead and makes matchups lopsided (like Flash or Zatanna or Harley). So nerfing the trait will make him less of a braindead character, which is good. However, then there are matchups that would become harder (Black Adam comes to mind). So I think they could give him something very small as a buff somewhere else (maybe someone can think of an idea here) that way his matchup chart isnt so lopsided, and he would require more thought.

Flash, no...flash has new combos with that overhead thingy...the trait doesnt affect him anymore, well...not really. zatanna- who da hell cares ab her ?

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Flash, no...flash has new combos with that overhead thingy...the trait doesnt affect him anymore, well...not really. zatanna- who da hell cares ab her ?

You're right about flash, forgot about that. And ummm.... zatanna players?

 

[FrozenG3oX]

You're right about flash, forgot about that. And ummm.... zatanna players?

Zatanna is new, we don't knwo enough about her...buf yea Aquaman has an adv over her. Dude, we have trait cuz we are minus on every special...

 

[ArcticLacertilia]

People complain because they're either afraid of, do not want to, or have to change. When it comes to Aquaman, they have to change; which brings in the complaining, frustration, irritation, and all the other bologna. He doesn't need a nerf.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Zatanna is new, we don't knwo enough about her...buf yea Aquaman has an adv over her. Dude, we have trait cuz we are minus on every special...

Zatanna is new, we don't knwo enough about her...buf yea Aquaman has an adv over her. Dude, we have trait cuz we are minus on every special...

90 percent of the cast can't punish rush. B12 is hit confirmable. So it really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

He only shouldn't be nerfed if other top tiers are not. But if black Adam and superman and all are nerfed, he should be too

 

[Dizzy]

All the top chars need to be nerfed, period.

The #1 reason he has several 7-3 or greater matches is because of his trait. If it got a decent nerf, it could swing several of his 7-3 matchups to 6-4 and possibly make some 6-4 matches to 5-5.

However, as many of the Aquaman players here have lamented, "what about the other top chars that give Aquaman trouble, that would make those MUs even worse". I agree wholeheartedly, while I believe Aquaman is in need of a nerf (specifically to his trait especially) many of the top chars need nerfs too. Ideally in the next balance update, it wouldn't be just Aquaman being nerfed and all the other top tier chars being the same.

Also, regarding the forums and whatnot, as I have said before, Aquaman is an extremely straight forward char. Anything tricky and fancy you might try to pull off is almost always worse than just playing his basic game plan. This is how many of the top chars are though. Superman, BA, GL, AM are all the worst offenders of this (could also throw Batman in here).

 

[FrozenG3oX]

All the top chars need to be nerfed, period.

The #1 reason he has several 7-3 or greater matches is because of his trait. If it got a decent nerf, it could swing several of his 7-3 matchups to 6-4 and possibly make some 6-4 matches to 5-5.

However, as many of the Aquaman players here have lamented, "what about the other top chars that give Aquaman trouble, that would make those MUs even worse". I agree wholeheartedly, while I believe Aquaman is in need of a nerf (specifically to his trait especially) many of the top chars need nerfs too. Ideally in the next balance update, it wouldn't be just Aquaman being nerfed and all the other top tier chars being the same.

Also, regarding the forums and whatnot, as I have said before, Aquaman is an extremely straight forward char. Anything tricky and fancy you might try to pull off is almost always worse than just playing his basic game plan. This is how many of the top chars are though. Superman, BA, GL, AM are all the worst offenders of this (could also throw Batman in here).

Ok, I get your point...where would you put Aquaman on the tier list ?