Pre-Patch Tier List: In My Eyes

[AZ MotherBrain]

What?

Oh and I made clarifications. The two DLC I put weren't the same as yours. Martian is the top one. Scorp was the bottom one.

I have no idea where ZOD is at.

Okay, that's what I was asking haha

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Hawkgirl whose pressure and damage rivals some of the better S-tier characters with her only downside being a semi-losing MU against Deathstroke? Lolyes.

Shazam who has more mix-up potential, solid damage, and projectile ability than Ares along with a teleport that doesn't automatically lose to anyone who knows how to Aug Tech with their respective character and has a good amount more even MUs with not many losing ones than Ares or Grundy? Yep.

Hawkgirl is one dimensional, and her pressure can easily be stopped by Pushblocking. Sinestro, Deathstroke, Raven, Batgirl, GL, and Cyborg laugh at this.

Shazam mix ups can easilly have his mixups shut down and relies on a lot of meter for little damage. Shazam doesnt have projectiles even close to Ares. Shazams range is shit and his teleport has so many start up frames it makes it unreliable.

 

[P3irce]

Wow... And they say I'm the up-player.

Well tell me ares worst matchups and I will to the best of my ability explain his options on why it's not bad

 

[Shawi]

Shazam who has more mix-up potential, solid damage, and projectile ability than Ares along with a teleport that doesn't automatically lose to anyone who knows how to Aug Tech with their respective character and has a good amount more even MUs with not many losing ones than Ares or Grundy? Yep.

You saying that Shazam has more of the following:

1. Solid Damage
2. Projectile ability

1. Shazams "solid damage" with 1 bar is 37%, reaching 45% (including reset)- Ares gets about 38% - 45% with some combos reaching 50%.

2a. Shazams "projectile ability".....hahaha....i'm laughing and writing this btw.......Ares has dark energy, shazam has bolt of zeus - lets compare:

Dark Energy - 21 Startup - 7% Damage - High
Bolt of Zeus - 26 Startup - 7% Damage - High
DE (mb) - 16 Startup - 14% - OVERHEAD
BoZ (mb) - 39% Startup - 13% - Mid

In addition Ares has his trait to use two additional projectiles that have huge hit boxes, have 13/14 frame startup and 9/15% damage.

EGP Wonder_Chef - This guy man hahahaha

 

[Doombawkz]

Shazam has no low starters, ares has a low starter, an overhead starter, and unblock able startup that can have armor meter burned , an overhead, low startup, 50% no meter. Can zone with overhead meter burned and trait weapons. Shazam can be beat off of any b3, f3 meter burned moves and the fact that his command grabs are still always a 50/50

Low starter is interruptible, overhead starter is slow and low-ranged, unblockable is jumpable and punishable, every character has overheads, Shazam has low start-ups too and his have half-screen of range, 50% no meter if you can manage to land it. Shazam can too, trait weapons have huge start-up and are interruptable. Ares can be beaten by the exact same things, the only difference is you can't punish or screw with Shazams teleport while most of the cast can Aug tech Ares on his wake-up.

Shazam has overheads, command grabs, and to my knowledge he has grabs that only hit standing opponents which means you have to be ducking to avoid them. That's not including the sheer amount of shenanigans and resettable damage, and his damage is solid enough for its cost on account of him gaining some decent meter.

 

[P3irce]

Low starter is interruptible, overhead starter is slow and low-ranged, unblockable is jumpable and punishable, every character has overheads, Shazam has low start-ups too and his have half-screen of range, 50% no meter if you can manage to land it. Shazam can too, trait weapons have huge start-up and are interruptable. Ares can be beaten by the exact same things, the only difference is you can't punish or screw with Shazams teleport while most of the cast can Aug tech Ares on his wake-up.

Shazam has overheads, command grabs, and to my knowledge he has grabs that only hit standing opponents which means you have to be ducking to avoid them. That's not including the sheer amount of shenanigans and resettable damage, and his damage is solid enough for its cost on account of him gaining some decent meter.

Instead of just arguing over the Internet would you like to play some matches ? Ill use ares you can use shazam ? I'm on Xbox and I'd love to just settle this

 

[Doombawkz]

You saying that Shazam has more of the following:

1. Solid Damage
2. Projectile ability

1. Shazams "solid damage" with 1 bar is 37% - Ares gets about 38% - 45% with some combos reaching 50%.

2a. Shazams "projectile ability".....hahaha....i'm laughing and writing this btw.......Ares has dark energy, shazam has bolt of zeus - lets compare:

Dark Energy - 21 Startup - 7% Damage - High
Bolt of Zeus - 26 Startup - 7% Damage - High
DE (mb) - 16 Startup - 14% - OVERHEAD
BoZ (mb) - 39% Startup - 13% - Mid

In addition Ares has his trait to use two additional projectiles that have huge hit boxes, have 13/14 frame startup and 9/15% damage.

EGP Wonder_Chef - This guy man hahahaha

1. His solid damage comes from resets, which yes stringing together 2 37% strings is more effective than doing one and being incapable of doing it again due to cooldowns. Whats more is you can't interrupt his combos. You can interrupt d.1xxlow sword. 37% for one bar is solid enough.

2. Why would you ever meterburn BoZ? Aside from the huge chip damage, I mean. His normal bolt is 5 frames slower than DE, but projectile ability isn't just how fast it goes but how effectively you can keep that range. Shazam can basically port himself away as much as he wants and has means to prevent people from simply walking in on him. Ares lacks it.

In addition you have an Axe which is on a huge cooldown (which you neglected to note) and a sword which is somewhat vital for his combos and "mix-ups" to my knowledge which also has a large cooldown.

 

[Shawi]

Awesome, ok so...
How many of those are off of an overhead?
How many of those are unblockable?
Shazam can do that too.
Shazam does 71% combos in the corner for no meter.
Shazam does things off of a 1/3 mix-up chance where you have a 33% chance of guessing right. I'll take that over the incredibly likely and interruptible d.1xxanything.

Shazam has no guessing game - if he does 22 into grab, just interrupt it. Done - no mixup. He only has a 50:50 from naked situations. Shazam gets 70+ % in the corner with his 40+ frame trait that lasts 6 seconds and only affects punches. Man some people.

 

[P3irce]

1. His solid damage comes from resets, which yes stringing together 2 37% strings is more effective than doing one and being incapable of doing it again due to cooldowns. Whats more is you can't interrupt his combos. You can interrupt d.1xxlow sword. 37% for one bar is solid enough.

2. Why would you ever meterburn BoZ? Aside from the huge chip damage, I mean. His normal bolt is 5 frames slower than DE, but projectile ability isn't just how fast it goes but how effectively you can keep that range. Shazam can basically port himself away as much as he wants and has means to prevent people from simply walking in on him. Ares lacks it.

In addition you have an Axe which is on a huge cooldown (which you neglected to note) and a sword which is somewhat vital for his combos and "mix-ups" to my knowledge which also has a large cooldown.

The trait cool down isn't that bad and ares still has godsmack combos which are ~40% 1 bar, these can be put back into resets too, but really are you on Xbox ?

 

[Doombawkz]

Hawkgirl is one dimensional, and her pressure can easily be stopped by Pushblocking. Sinestro, Deathstroke, Raven, Batgirl, GL, and Cyborg laugh at this.

Shazam mix ups can easilly have his mixups shut down and relies on a lot of meter for little damage. Shazam doesnt have projectiles even close to Ares. Shazams range is shit and his teleport has so many start up frames it makes it unreliable.

You think so? Because I've played some pretty mean hawkgirls and I can promise you that you are wrong. I'd invite RunwayMafia and Espio in here since they are the top hawks I know, and maybe they can shed more light on it.

Shazam's teleport isn't Aug-able on wake-up so it makes it reliable as a wake-up and against certain MUs the start-up is sufficient. As far as projectiles go he has one that's only a few frames slower and the means to make it effective. Ares doesn't outside of costly cooldowns. His range being a half-screen overhead and a near full-screen overhead torpedo that will snatch out anyone who happens to be jumping in the area? It relies on one bar for about 40%, that seems pretty normal to me.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Can't lie, the one thing I truly like about Shazam is that he basically gets to throw a free interactable at you if he lands a psycho crusher MB.

 

[DanableLector]

Shazam has no guessing game - if he does 22 into grab, just interrupt it. Done - no mixup. He only has a 50:50 from naked situations. Shazam gets 70+ % in the corner with his 40+ frame trait that lasts 6 seconds and only affects punches. Man some people.

Shazam is so fun to play, but to try and say that he is superior to ares .. or even that he is viable is foolish.

 

[Qwark28]

Ares is a lot more viable than Shazam

 

[Shawi]

1. His solid damage comes from resets, which yes stringing together 2 37% strings is more effective than doing one and being incapable of doing it again due to cooldowns. Whats more is you can't interrupt his combos. You can interrupt d.1xxlow sword. 37% for one bar is solid enough.

2. Why would you ever meterburn BoZ? Aside from the huge chip damage, I mean. His normal bolt is 5 frames slower than DE, but projectile ability isn't just how fast it goes but how effectively you can keep that range. Shazam can basically port himself away as much as he wants and has means to prevent people from simply walking in on him. Ares lacks it.

In addition you have an Axe which is on a huge cooldown (which you neglected to note) and a sword which is somewhat vital for his combos and "mix-ups" to my knowledge which also has a large cooldown.

Waaaaaaaaaaa I'm cryinnnggggggg out of embarrassment - please someone help me to help this guy understand....please.

He has MORE projectile options than Shazam which renders your talk of the Axe completely and utterly moot in this comparison.
He has a better 5 frames better standard projectile and MUCH better mb projectile.
Shazam's teleport has 20 or so frames startup and 20 or so frames recovery - i.e. if he is teleporting away.....throw a projectile. If he teleports towards you.....read it and punish. If he teleports away, move in and pressure. He teleport is bolllloooocksss (except on wakeup )

 

[Doombawkz]

The trait cool down isn't that bad and ares still has godsmack combos which are ~40% 1 bar, these can be put back into resets too, but really are you on Xbox ?

Trait cooldown is in the area of 5-7 seconds to my memory, and both are pretty necessary. Know what the cooldown on Shazam's half-screen overhead, jump snatching overhead torpedo, and teleports are? There is none. Also you can beat MB godsmack, to my knowledge, by simply buffering a MB b/f. 3 since the armor takes the hit and allows for a punish.

Jumpable and I don't play Shazam, but I know enough about the character to know he is better than Ares. He has a lot that Ares lacks without a cooldown, and has a wake-up.

 

[DanableLector]

You think so? Because I've played some pretty mean hawkgirls and I can promise you that you are wrong. I'd invite RunwayMafia and Espio in here since they are the top hawks I know, and maybe they can shed more light on it.

Shazam's teleport isn't Aug-able on wake-up so it makes it reliable as a wake-up and against certain MUs the start-up is sufficient. As far as projectiles go he has one that's only a few frames slower and the means to make it effective. Ares doesn't outside of costly cooldowns. His range being a half-screen overhead and a near full-screen overhead torpedo that will snatch out anyone who happens to be jumping in the area? It relies on one bar for about 40%, that seems pretty normal to me.

That full screen torpedo you refer to gets beat out by j1,2, and 3. Its priority is odd.. and kind of ass. Gets beat by all types of shit that it shouldn't.

 

[Shawi]

Shazam is so fun to play, but to try and say that he is superior to ares .. or even that he is viable is foolish.

THANK YOU!

 

[JustPressingButtons]

I play HG too and I love Mafia, Espio and HG. I'm not as good as them but personally I've been shut down by pushblock and zoners. Maybe just me. She's good, but not one of the top. A solid high-mid.

Shazam can be bypassed by so many things. They need to fix him.

 

[Doombawkz]

Shazam has no guessing game - if he does 22 into grab, just interrupt it. Done - no mixup. He only has a 50:50 from naked situations. Shazam gets 70+ % in the corner with his 40+ frame trait that lasts 6 seconds and only affects punches. Man some people.

So you are guessing he will grab and move to interrupt it? That's readable, and punishable to boot. Done - mix-up created. He can generate those naked situations. Ares gets 50% on the off-chance people don't remember his sword links are interruptible, and those are on a 5-7 second cooldown timer to boot.

 

[Shawi]

Know what the cooldown on Shazam's half-screen overhead, jump snatching overhead torpedo, and teleports are? There is none.

Half-Screen overhead? Do you mean B23? It is full combo punishable on block.
Jump snatching overhead torpedo? It is full combo punishable on block.
Teleports? It has 20+ frames of recovery.

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that Ares is worse than Shazam? I actually cant tell if you are or not.

 

[Circus]

Made this in seconds and I honestly think it's more accurate than the OP list.

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index.html?tc=ya0-tr7t2wf93yde3l9aajbl3fiz4kh4489l6k9gdkd2bd7kd8h982j68gd8e9ipcabcdzgvby7ea0fc7t7o61b6ax9q37dg7dezbnf3ekbg6wrye7rzbr-bk5-naSoftShock

EDIT:
People need to stop taking tier lists so seriously by the way. We know who's amazing, we know who's good, and we know who struggles a bit. Trying to list everything off should just be for fun/thought-provoking because the reality is that most characters are viable but might just have a few bad matchups.

 

[Doombawkz]

That full screen torpedo you refer to gets beat out by j1,2, and 3. Its priority is odd.. and kind of ass. Gets beat by all types of shit that it shouldn't.

That's some damn good timing or a long animation for it to happen consistently, from what I've seen. Like it ~can~ happen, but I don't see it happening often enough. Bane's super is the same way.

 

[Doombawkz]

Half-Screen overhead? Do you mean B23? It is full combo punishable on block.
Jump snatching overhead torpedo? It is full combo punishable on block.
Teleports? It has 20+ frames of recovery.

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that Ares is worse than Shazam? I actually cant tell if you are or not.

Hope you have some fast reactions then, since I used the b.23 as an example of ways to keep people from advancing on you. Unless you plan on stand-guarding in expectation in which case enjoy the free chip.
Can't block while jumping.
Teleport isn't punishable at all, 20+ frames of recovery? Yeah ok, go ahead and set Shazam to auto-block in training and have him do wake-up tele and tell me how many punishes you can get in before he is able to block again.

As a Bane, I'm far more concerned about a Shazam than an Ares. I'm guessing you guys haven't figured out how to Aug people, so I'll let it slide from a lack of information but there shouldn't be anyone having trouble with the character at all.

 

[Jok3s]

Made this in seconds and I honestly think it's more accurate than the OP list.

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index.html?tc=ya0-tr7t2wf93yde3l9aajbl3fiz4kh4489l6k9gdkd2bd7kd8h982j68gd8e9ipcabcdzgvby7ea0fc7t7o61b6ax9q37dg7dezbnf3ekbg6wrye7rzbr-bk5-naSoftShock

EDIT:
People need to stop taking tier lists so seriously by the way. We know who's amazing, we know who's good, and we know who struggles a bit. Trying to list everything off should just be for fun/thought-provoking because the reality is that most characters are viable but might just have a few bad matchups.

This is better than the first one.

 

[P3irce]

Hope you have some fast reactions then, since I used the b.23 as an example of ways to keep people from advancing on you. Unless you plan on stand-guarding in expectation in which case enjoy the free chip.
Can't block while jumping.
Teleport isn't punishable at all, 20+ frames of recovery? Yeah ok, go ahead and set Shazam to auto-block in training and have him do wake-up tele and tell me how many punishes you can get in before he is able to block again.

As a Bane, I'm far more concerned about a Shazam than an Ares. I'm guessing you guys haven't figured out how to Aug people, so I'll let it slide from a lack of information but there shouldn't be anyone having trouble with the character at all.

But still are you an Xbox player I wouldn't mind doing friendly sets, I can show you some of the things ares can do.