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Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

S

Sami

Warrior
kabelfritz said:
demon vortex
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(yes I know I don't play anymore)

The standing reset is only "required" against characters with wake-ups that reliably beat jump-ins. Raven already has a cross-up 50/50 ender on pretty much all of her combos where the only escape is to block correctly or wake-up invincibility out of it. Against a lot of characters, their wake-ups will still wiff giving you the full combo punish. Scorpion is a prime example of this - you can option select to beat every single one of his wake-ups including teleport and flip kick.

The characters that have good anti-air wake-ups are often the ones Raven wants to be nowhere near. Grundy will punish the hell out of you if he blocks right (and can probably Walking Corpse out of it), Raven fights GL better at range, I can't remember if Doomsday has an invincible AA grab but again you want him full screen.

In demon stance you can combo somebody and put them fullscreen with b23, providing you with a load of free chip and meter building while they try and get back in to you. And if they mess up, you can get another full screen grab into full combo which puts them full screen again.

If you're a) in demon stance and b) fighting a character you're happy to keep close then the standing reset cross-up is good, but it's not something I would ever explicitly aim to achieve in a match. b23(~4) is too useful, as is ending a combo with db2 (normal stance).

Setting up the vortex with high enough damage is difficult as it is, as chances are if you're in demon stance you're trying to zone/keepaway, so the MB grab is probably the move you started the combo with which means you can't MB it again to end the combo and setup a vortex.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Gotta grind out Raven vs GL matches again. He is starting to be a problem again for my other main...
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Master
punishing martian manhunters teleport: punish normal one with f22u1 as soon as he dropped to the ground. the overhead one you gotta read and walk forward so that he hits you crossup but then bounces toward you instead of away, then you can d1~db2. you cant punish a frontal overhead teleport.
 
xInfra Deadx

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
kabelfritz said:
punishing martian manhunters teleport: punish normal one with f22u1 as soon as he dropped to the ground. the overhead one you gotta read and walk forward so that he hits you crossup but then bounces toward you instead of away, then you can d1~db2. you cant punish a frontal overhead teleport.
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The Teleport Uppercut you can just B3 to punish. The Overhead teleport though...you have to respect it...it's pretty abusable right now.
 
S

Sami

Warrior
kabelfritz said:
true. i wasnt even thinking about meterlesss :p

oh and why would you do 3~exlift instead of f222~ex lift? scaling?
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Yep scaling. Using f222 at the start of the combo will lead to slightly less damage than using 3. Towards the end of the combo f222 is fine as the damage gain more than offsets the increased scaling on the final few hits. We are talking like 1-2%, but it all helps.
 
afrozilla86

afrozilla86

Apprentice
Hey raven forum, its been a while since I reviewed the raven matchup, and I wanted to get more experience against a really good raven player to see what new tools and options have been developed for her since the last time I posted my opinion of the g.l vs Raven matchup. She has obviously gained new tech, and if possible do any of you know a good raven on tym? Thanks in advance
 
ZeroEffect

ZeroEffect

Warrior
So what does one do to fight against Deathstroke? Guns are tough to deal with, imo. You can't Portal them on reaction, and if you made a good read, it doesn't absorb the whole thing. Also, using Soul crush at "safe range" doesn't really apply since he can punish it from full screen. Getting in after blocking guns is ok, but DS seems stronger than her up close with a better F3 and low option

Then his Sword Spin/Sword Flip wakeup attacks pretty much stop air teleports, since the inputs will work whether she lands behind or in front.

The match doesn't feel 3/7 bad, but just that once one of you gets the life lead, you're literally just walking around Soul Crush range and holding the down button hoping for them to try something unsafe. Is this really all there is to the matchup? or am I missing something?
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
ZeroEffect said:
So what does one do to fight against Deathstroke? Guns are tough to deal with, imo. You can't Portal them on reaction, and if you made a good read, it doesn't absorb the whole thing. Also, using Soul crush at "safe range" doesn't really apply since he can punish it from full screen. Getting in after blocking guns is ok, but DS seems stronger than her up close with a better F3 and low option

Then his Sword Spin/Sword Flip wakeup attacks pretty much stop air teleports, since the inputs will work whether she lands behind or in front.

The match doesn't feel 3/7 bad, but just that once one of you gets the life lead, you're literally just walking around Soul Crush range and holding the down button hoping for them to try something unsafe. Is this really all there is to the matchup? or am I missing something?
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If you block guns you soul crush. You have to bait the wakeups by sitting just outside of spin range. If he spins you can soul crush again, if he flips you can f2 for full combo. If he jumps at you you have to d2 when he is at the highest point of his jump. Then you just have to know how to block his stuff(Block low as he doesnt get much from b2 overhead)
 
ZeroEffect

ZeroEffect

Warrior
Zoidberg747 said:
If you block guns you soul crush. You have to bait the wakeups by sitting just outside of spin range. If he spins you can soul crush again, if he flips you can f2 for full combo. If he jumps at you you have to d2 when he is at the highest point of his jump. Then you just have to know how to block his stuff(Block low as he doesnt get much from b2 overhead)
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Yeah, I know low guns at least is unsafe to Soul Crush on block. High guns (non MB) you have to duck and then punish right away when he finishes. MB version takes longer so you risk standing up too soon sometimes. The flip in and of itself isn't a problem. It's just that if you teleport and he inputs for the spin (df3?), it will force him to do the flip (db3?)due to change of direction. So it becomes complete anti-teleport.

Once I go down in health though, it's hard to see where I can make a comeback. Both chars are just crouching and turtling and you can't soul crush or get into trait far away like most chars since he can shoot on reaction. (And fireballs are high)
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
ZeroEffect said:
Yeah, I know low guns at least is unsafe to Soul Crush on block. High guns (non MB) you have to duck and then punish right away when he finishes. MB version takes longer so you risk standing up too soon sometimes. The flip in and of itself isn't a problem. It's just that if you teleport and he inputs for the spin (df3?), it will force him to do the flip (db3?)due to change of direction. So it becomes complete anti-teleport.

Once I go down in health though, it's hard to see where I can make a comeback. Both chars are just crouching and turtling and you can't soul crush or get into trait far away like most chars since he can shoot on reaction. (And fireballs are high)
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Why would you teleport him when he is knocked down?

In order to keep you out he has to use guns, and that leaves opportunities for soul crush. Off of that you can trait and check him with singularity.
 
ZeroEffect

ZeroEffect

Warrior
Zoidberg747 said:
Why would you teleport him when he is knocked down?

In order to keep you out he has to use guns, and that leaves opportunities for soul crush. Off of that you can trait and check him with singularity.
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well, I didn't mean teleport when you knock him down, just teleporting in general. Trait>db2 is good though since it's fullscreen.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Zoidberg747 said:
So I just played a long set vs. Flash and the MU seemed damn near unwinnable.

Blind_Man
Mr. Mileena
@pimpimjim

Does anyone have any tips for this?

(@Hiltzy85 maybe you know something I wasnt doing)
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At EVO Flawedzilla got me to admit I secretly felt the mu was 6-4 Flash and it probably is. Torpedo is a bitch because no soul crush. If you want to keep walking back and avoid high blocking mb torpedo just go back and crouch repeatedly so if flash does it you get a punish regardless if he mb or not. Reflect is an awesome bait. Shadow Raven is decent.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Blind_Man said:
At EVO Flawedzilla got me to admit I secretly felt the mu was 6-4 Flash and it probably is. Torpedo is a bitch because no soul crush. If you want to keep walking back and avoid high blocking mb torpedo just go back and crouch repeatedly so if flash does it you get a punish regardless if he mb or not. Reflect is an awesome bait. Shadow Raven is decent.
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How do you punish the EX torpedo?
 
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