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Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

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RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
kappie.wp said:
RunwayMafia I just watched the first set against m2dave and there's a few things that I would suggest. When you are doing your damage combo, after MB iceberg, you can do b3 before daggers and when you're doing the meterless vortex setup you never do ji3 for the cross up (ji3~slide or ji3,11b2~slide) ji obviously meaning over lol. I saw that m2dave loves that sword spin wakeup on hard knock down and you could have baited that a few times.

On your 3rd point regarding d1~slide, what I normally do is buffer the bd then press 1,3 immediately after each other (almost simultaneously) so it's bd13. Try it out. :)
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Bd13...I'll def. try that. I'm just so used to mashing D1 that I always forget to buffer a slide afterwards...
 
Drizzle

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
RunwayMafia

I'm not a Frost player but I did notice that m2dave got away with a lot of blocked gunshots. They're always punishable by iceberg or slide if you're close enough. On the flip side, high guns punish iceberg and low gunshots go under daggers. Neither character's projectiles are good outside of punishes in this match-up. I also noticed you eating raw f3s quite a bit. I couldn't tell if they were beating your slides or just hitting raw. Just seemed kind of odd.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Drizzle said:
RunwayMafia

I'm not a Frost player but I did notice that m2dave got away with a lot of blocked gunshots. They're always punishable by iceberg or slide if you're close enough. On the flip side, high guns punish iceberg and low gunshots go under daggers. Neither character's projectiles are good outside of punishes in this match-up. I also noticed you eating raw f3s quite a bit. I couldn't tell if they were beating your slides or just hitting raw. Just seemed kind of odd.
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You can't punish blocked low gunshots with slide. You can punish with iceberg but only if it is a reversal.
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
Drizzle said:
RunwayMafia

I'm not a Frost player but I did notice that m2dave got away with a lot of blocked gunshots. They're always punishable by iceberg or slide if you're close enough. On the flip side, high guns punish iceberg and low gunshots go under daggers. Neither character's projectiles are good outside of punishes in this match-up. I also noticed you eating raw f3s quite a bit. I couldn't tell if they were beating your slides or just hitting raw. Just seemed kind of odd.
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Lol, yes some of those F3's hit me raw. The reason being because he conditioned me to his run in/run away style. So after he'd approach and I'd block correctly, he'd 9/10 just jump back or dash back. So when those F3's hit me it's because I was anticipating him either dashing back or jumping back...yes I know, I looked quite derptastic in some moments. ;)

In regards to the low gun shots...I was under the impression they were punishable but I couldn't punish a single one. I'm in the lab right now and it looks like iceberg will not punish them from full screen...after a few missed punishes I think I just assumed they were un-punishable at any distance...lol.
 
Drizzle

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
RiBBz22 said:
You can't punish blocked low gunshots with slide. You can punish with iceberg but only if it is a reversal.
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You can slide if it's from about a dash away but yeah, it won't come up very often because it's a bad time to do low shots anyway.

And tbh, even if it has to be a reversal punish I think it's worth doing as it'll get DS to stop using his projectiles; therefore limiting his options and making it easier for you to get in. I wouldn't go for it 100% of the time unless I'm confident about it, but if you just let him get away with gunshots it makes the match-up a lot more manageable for him.

RunwayMafia said:
In regards to the low gun shots...I was under the impression they were punishable but I couldn't punish a single one. I'm in the lab right now and it looks like iceberg will not punish them from full screen...after a few missed punishes I think I just assumed they were un-punishable at any distance...lol.
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Reversal iceberg should work from every distance vs low guns. High guns are safe from full-screen but a little further in they're punishable as well.
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
Drizzle said:
You can slide if it's from about a dash away but yeah, it won't come up very often because it's a bad time to do low shots anyway.

And tbh, even if it has to be a reversal punish I think it's worth doing as it'll get DS to stop using his projectiles; therefore limiting his options and making it easier for you to get in. I wouldn't go for it 100% of the time unless I'm confident about it, but if you just let him get away with gunshots it makes the match-up a lot more manageable for him.



Reversal iceberg should work from every distance vs low guns. High guns are safe from full-screen but a little further in they're punishable as well.
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Yup...just did it as well. Kinda tricky...
 
Belial

Belial

Kombatant
Low gunshot is punishable at all ranges by Ice Spike
Low MB gunshot is safe
High shot can be ducked+punished by Ice Spike on all ranges. Easier on closer range, but is somewhat difficult
High MB shot can be ducked+punished by Ice Spike on all ranges and its fairly easy.
Machine gun is very unsafe, and you can slide into MB version at most ranges
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
RunwayMafia Watched most of your matches vs m2dave:
  • When you mess up the slide input and do a sweep, don't immediately slide after as you just telegraphed to him what you are trying to do.
  • Always expect your slide to hit and be surprised when it doesn't. This way you can combo off of one lol
  • Dave never reacted in time to properly deal with a blocked slide. You could have hit him with a bunch of followup d1~slide combos.
  • Use parry more after a blocked slide to condition him to either throw you, sword spin, sweep, or do nothing. This opens up more options after you have it blocked.
  • Always primarily watch for throw after slide and block low. If you see it, break it. If he does anything else, you either block it or can react to it (overhead) ... or backdash after and punish whiff!
  • In the corner when you land a MB grab, don't just do j2 or j2~2... go for j2~f113 and you still get the vortex but with more damage.
  • Crouching is good vs DS because you can punish his LGS (block) and QS (whiff).
** Typical Dave lol... He uses j3 and f3 then RUNS AWAY instead of going for the mixup with the frame advantage.

I'll watch more later. You are like the only person recording match videos... props to you!
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler

I hate online so much...but here are some matches with Espio...trying to get back in the game after a month off, but a really fun set.
 
AK cyusstrike

AK cyusstrike

Noob
I should post my matches on here at some point if anyone looks at the Atlanta streams you probably seen me play. Ill post some on here soon. Now to buisness how does Frost do against ZOD I played Pig of the Hut 's Zod today and only won 3 times how does Frost approach the mu and what key things am I supposed to do mainly against him.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 4
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
AK cyusstrike said:
I should post my matches on here at some point if anyone looks at the Atlanta streams you probably seen me play. Ill post some on here soon. Now to buisness how does Frost do against ZOD I played Pig of the Hut 's Zod today and only won 3 times how does Frost approach the mu and what key things am I supposed to do mainly against him.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk 4
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I don't really know much about Zod...but I have some sets against M2Daves Zod in the media section and my KF did well against him.
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
AK cyusstrike said:
ok cool Runway ill check it out maybe ill pickup on some stuff
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Yeah no problem. At the time of the sets, I had no idea you could stand block Zod's trait grab...lol, so I get hit with it A LOT. I find Ice berg pretty useful in this match. I actually zoned his Zod quite a bit.
 
ApocaLips

ApocaLips

Dojo Trainee
Can we discuss KF's options against the strong air-based opponents? Particularly those who can rush her down nearly for free due to KF's lack of mid-range and long-range air control. I'm worried about, in no particular order:

(1) Black Adam
(2) MMH
(3) Superman
(4) Wonder Woman

I see these four butchering KF right now - they can run circles around her, and she can't chase them down or control their mobility unless they predictably airdash right into d2 range.

Given that Bladam and Superman are probably the #1 and #2 most used/successful tourney characters, I think finding strong answers here is essential to her tournament viability. I.e., if she can't deal, and these matchups are 3-7s, we're not going to see her in top 8 again, at least not as a primary.

I personally don't see any options for these hugely problematic key matchups, and accordingly I'm exploring other options. I might keep her as a pocket answer to some top tiers that she does well against, such as Aquaman and possibly Batman and Flash. But I can't recommend anyone main her when she is particularly weak against the most popular and problematic characters in the game.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
ApocaLips said:
Can we discuss KF's options against the strong air-based opponents? Particularly those who can rush her down nearly for free due to KF's lack of mid-range and long-range air control. I'm worried about, in no particular order:

(1) Black Adam
(2) MMH
(3) Superman
(4) Wonder Woman

I see these four butchering KF right now - they can run circles around her, and she can't chase them down or control their mobility unless they predictably airdash right into d2 range.

Given that Bladam and Superman are probably the #1 and #2 most used/successful tourney characters, I think finding strong answers here is essential to her tournament viability. I.e., if she can't deal, and these matchups are 3-7s, we're not going to see her in top 8 again, at least not as a primary.

I personally don't see any options for these hugely problematic key matchups, and accordingly I'm exploring other options. I might keep her as a pocket answer to some top tiers that she does well against, such as Aquaman and possibly Batman and Flash. But I can't recommend anyone main her when she is particularly weak against the most popular and problematic characters in the game.
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KF does fine against superman and wonder woman. I'm getting tired of saying this...

Who cares if they win in the air? Stop jumping and play patient. Stop airdashing and walk your way in.

Superman doesn't bop her at all. I have that as 5-5 and some KF players think she wins. She has the tools to deal with him. She's one of the few characters he can't play brain dead against.

WW is 5-5 as well. Don't jump and fight her on the ground. WW can't wake up at all because of the meterless vortex. Parry works wonders in this MU as well.

I can't comment on the MMH mu as I have yet to play reo. I just know she can deal with his tele and he can't wake up due to the meterless vortex. His only option is the push, which is his best wakeup.

Black Adam beats her for sure, but its only 4-6. He shuts down her mobility and zones her out pretty bad. I still can't punish divekick.


KF is a walking touch of death. Just play patient with her. All she needs is on touch and they are playing her game.
 
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