Breakthrough ATTN NRS: HawkGirl Fixes/Issues/Requests

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Add Green Arrow's air arrow to the list

 

[Tiger Wong]

You had me until blocking in the air.

Hell fucking no

You didn't read.

I'm not surprised.

 

[regulas]

Green Arrow's not actually as bad as most of the rest.

Also MMH may shut down her flight but unlike the rest I find he's not as much of a pain since he lacks straight forward projectiles.

 

[Zoidberg747]

You didn't read.

I'm not surprised.

Projectiles should not be blocked in the air.

Yeah that might make her worse MUs better, but it would make her good MUs stupid good.

 

[afrozilla86]

No to blocking in the air, but an air evade that forces her to also go to the ground would not be too bad. Wouldn't overpower her already good matchups, and it would allow a reaction to smoke bomb, and sinestro and d.s , but the projectiles and moves you named give virtually every character problems.

 

[Tiger Wong]

I like how you two just jumped in and overreacted with no understanding of anything.

How would blocking projectiles while flying (not jumping, just while in Flight) make her good MUs stupid good? Do you even know what her good matchups are?

All of her favored matchups are against characters who can't do anything vs her in the air. And NONE of them are 7-3.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I like how you two just jumped in and overreacted with no understanding of anything.

How would blocking projectiles while flying (not jumping, just while in Flight) make her good MUs stupid good? Do you even know what her good matchups are?

All of her favored matchups are against characters who can't do anything vs her in the air. And NONE of them are 7-3.

Raven

If you can block pillars in the air, then what keeps you from sitting in the air and throwing maces. And dont say trait running out because at that distance Raven has nothing to stop you from doing it again.

 

[Akromaniac27]

I like how you two just jumped in and overreacted with no understanding of anything.

How would blocking projectiles while flying (not jumping, just while in Flight) make her good MUs stupid good? Do you even know what her good matchups are?

All of her favored matchups are against characters who can't do anything vs her in the air. And NONE of them are 7-3.

Idk, that kinda screws with the game. Every other character has to work their way in against zoners and teleporters, so just because her easiest way is through being the only one that can "fly", these MU's only force her to play the game like the other characters. If b2 becomes a true mid, heavenly stomp returned to have its HKD, I don't think there should be reason to buff her flight since she can handle her own up close. As for We1, yeah that move is shit lmao. I was thinking maybe along the lines of it still being an AA, but it now instead(idea here),
Her WE1 causes her to cover herself with her wings and it acts as a parry if they hit you within the animation that causes a HKD, just a thought

 

[Jon Berg]

I like how you two just jumped in and overreacted with no understanding of anything.

How would blocking projectiles while flying (not jumping, just while in Flight) make her good MUs stupid good? Do you even know what her good matchups are?

All of her favored matchups are against characters who can't do anything vs her in the air. And NONE of them are 7-3.

Green Lantern, Raven, Zod, Batman, and im sure more.

 

[Tiger Wong]

After HG blocks the pillars, what is the magical move that HG has that makes her not get hit with the pillars as HG throws an air mace?

There is none.

Raven's pillars (unlike HG's MTs) can hit HG from full screen. HG's diagonal mace can only hit her at a perfect 45 degree angle. So other than that one spot, there's a stupid amount of area that Raven can hit HG with her pillar while HG is flying. AND, Raven's pillars connect long before HG's maces do.

AND, Raven can teleport the maces anyway.

So how does this suddenly "make HG's MUs stupid good" again?

It's ok. I'll wait.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Green Lantern, Raven, Zod, Batman, and im sure more.

This wouldn't change the GL matchup AT ALL. None of his projectiles can reach her flying and Lantern's Might is not a projectile.
This wouldn't change the Batman matchup to anything except maybe even or 6-4. As it stands now it's 4-6 Batman but it's a swing vote. Can go either way.
This DEFINITELY wouldn't change the Zod matchup AT ALL. Zod Charge activates at 0 frames and there is nothing HG can do to stop it (believe me, I've tried.)

 

[Akromaniac27]

After HG blocks the pillars, what is the magical move that HG has that makes her not get hit with the pillars as HG throws an air mace?

There is none.

Raven's pillars (unlike HG's MTs) can hit HG from full screen. HG's diagonal mace can only hit her at a perfect 45 degree angle. So other than that one spot, there's a stupid amount of area that Raven can hit HG with her pillar while HG is flying. AND, Raven's pillars connect long before HG's maces do.

AND, Raven can teleport the maces anyway.

So how does this suddenly "make HG's MUs stupid good" again?

It's ok. I'll wait.

Well I mean, every character aside from teleporters have to respect pillars and other projectiles, not just her. As for her diagonal mace's hit, that's inaccurate. I have been in spaces larger than dash distance apart and her diagonal mace hit within that entire range. It sort of tracks so long as you're within that range

 

[RunwayMafia]

I'm sure colt and hector would appreciate only being tagged once in the OP and not once every post.

For my buffs, make her d1 8 frames.

It's a Bane buff though.

I don't think you think you should speak for colt or hector. Those individuals that tagged them had something specific to say that I didn't mention in the OP. They have every right to directly tag them and voice THEIR opinion.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Well I mean, every character aside from teleporters have to respect pillars and other projectiles, not just her. As for her diagonal mace's hit, that's inaccurate. I have been in spaces larger than dash distance apart and her diagonal mace hit within that entire range. It sort of tracks so long as you're within that range

Please stop spreading mis-information. Mace toss does NOT track.

 

[Konqrr]

I agree with the OP but you must address this:

F3!! The other night when I played only Hawkgirl for a few hours, literally half of my f3 and mb f3 attempts completely whiffed against my opponent. Some of them were mashing sweep or d1, but my f3 should NEVER whiff if it is done in proximity to my opponent...

I don't think that the move's hitbox goes all the way to the ground which is a big problem and should be corrected!

One-frame links are actually incredibly stupid and force people to waste their time learning to do them correctly or how to whore out tricks (plinking) to make their lives easier. The only thing it changes is training mode investment, and if Capcom weren't so relentlessly Japanese - which is to say, blithely stubborn - they would have corrected it. Never, ever use SF4 as a standard for anything. It's the bible of how not to make a game.

So you are saying that a fighting game should be made so that all combos are easy to do and you don't have to practice them?

Your post is incredibly stupid... whoever thinks that grinding out combo practice is a waste of time shouldn't be playing fighting games.

 

[afrozilla86]

Would hawk girl be too o.p if her flight worked like a weaker version of bane's venom to assist on the outrageous matchups, it increases some armor the longer you go without using flight. But IMO if she gets the hard knockdown, and 2 frames removed from b3 she would be fine.

 

[gdf]

Tiger Wong
Can you expand more about the vs DS match-up? I don't want to raise my torch without proper reason.

In my honest opinion, agree with it or not, Hawkgirl is one of the least played characters, so match-up knowledge is very hard to come by.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Please stop spreading mis-information. Mace toss does NOT track.

So I take it the HG player in the air not moving just chucking diagonal maces is miraculously hitting me on block or on hit within about half screen range?

 

[Chongo]

So I take it the HG player in the air not moving just chucking diagonal maces is miraculously hitting me on block or on hit within about half screen range?

You're in the range where it hits, it doesn't track lol.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Well I mean, every character aside from teleporters have to respect pillars and other projectiles, not just her.

Who's saying HG isn't to respecting it? She's blocking it. All that means is she's in block stun. What can HG do in block stun? A whole lot of nothing that's what.

This isn't MK. There's no block button. So HG has to float backwards just to start blocking. She ends up losing her possible space control and thoughts of getting in for a second.

Blocking while in Flight is no OP. Not even in the slightest. All it does is create a mid-air metagame.

As for her diagonal mace's hit, that's inaccurate. I have been in spaces larger than dash distance apart and her diagonal mace hit within that entire range. It sort of tracks so long as you're within that range

It doesn't track. It just has a bit more range than the 45 because it can hit the tip of your feet and the tip of your head. The point is, it's not anything to really fear like she can block punish a ground projectile from flight with her MT. She might be able to do that vs Batman's Grapple. But she still has to play it smart vs his Up Batarangs which are only -5 on block and if you MB it, it's at +frames.

The same thing applies for his trait. As HG, I'd have to choose to block. And while I'm cloking the bats, Batman can still jump in on me and bust my ass.

It's not OP.
It's not broke.
Stop being so scared and think. I thought it would be OP on first thought too. But after I examined it and thought about it, I believe it's a good idea.
It's a new metagame vs HG
Let's all try to keep up here

 

[RunwayMafia]

So I take it the HG player in the air not moving just chucking diagonal maces is miraculously hitting me on block or on hit within about half screen range?

I'm questioning whether or not you understand how "tracking" works...her mace toss does not track.

 

[Zoidberg747]

After HG blocks the pillars, what is the magical move that HG has that makes her not get hit with the pillars as HG throws an air mace?

There is none.

Raven's pillars (unlike HG's MTs) can hit HG from full screen. HG's diagonal mace can only hit her at a perfect 45 degree angle. So other than that one spot, there's a stupid amount of area that Raven can hit HG with her pillar while HG is flying. AND, Raven's pillars connect long before HG's maces do.

AND, Raven can teleport the maces anyway.

So how does this suddenly "make HG's MUs stupid good" again?

It's ok. I'll wait.

And what happens when you learn the pillar spacing and can dodge them. Answer: Rape
That air mace thing is incorrect btw, it hits you pretty much anywhere on the screen(except like fullscreen)

And I just want to go back to moves that hit her out of the air.

Batgirl: If you block smoke bomb then she has nothing to defend from air maces
Sinestro: If you block boulder, he has nothing to defend from air maces
MMH: Maybe try staying near the ground and canceling flight? Both of his teleports are unsafe
Zod: I highly doubt this MU is unwinnable with this.
Cyborg: If you can block his projectiles, he can no longer defend from air maces
Deathstroke: He wont be able to defend air maces
Lex: She would rape lex if this happens, CC is unsafe and all hit projectiles are unsafe as well

So yeah, blocking in the air is a dumb idea and will not happen, might as well drop it.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Would hawk girl be too o.p if her flight worked like a weaker version of bane's venom to assist on the outrageous matchups, it increases some armor the longer you go without using flight. But IMO if she gets the hard knockdown, and 2 frames removed from b3 she would be fine.

At the end of the day, her B3 and her HKD are the most important to me.

 

[Konqrr]

I also think that you should be able to go into flight a lot sooner from Wing Evade than you can now... like if I press db2~4 I should go straight from WE to flight. It may not even be useful, but gives me greater control over my character and that I like.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

What makes WE(1) not a viable AA is the angle of the mace! It's pretty ridiculous! That move doesn't hit anything! So... I was thinking that fixing the angle of the mace on that move would bring us a very viable AA and maybe we could use it even in combos... Thoughts?