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Vulcan Hades

Champion
Psh. Hiding tech is tournament player 101.
If a tech requires to be hidden to work it means it's a bad shenanigan that will only work once if you're lucky. Then any top player will adapt to it. If you have a great setup then it shouldn't matter if it's known or not because it's up to the player to mix it up.

Plus I noticed that all the players who hide their tech or gameplay because they "play to win" always end up losing in the end. I'm not going to name players but it happens in every game lol. Fundamentals and overall knowledge are always more important than having a large bag of tricks.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Just stop. Its bad enough that you still can't count the number of majors that Batman has won. Its worse that you refuse to change it and keep calling it "fact".

You don't like people who don't think that Doomsday is top ten (oh wait... that includes YOU). We get it. Shut up already.
Opps i missed one major, uh oh..........

I think doomsday is upper mid, around 12 but i also think 95% dd players are awful
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Its a "who won what", that's about it. Batman won one more than listed?

Who cares?

All the list basically shows is that a handful of players are putting in a lot of work, as PotH said theres only about 2 or 3 good DD players and only about 1 great one. They worked hard, they got results. Same with Chris G and arrow, KDZ and supes, etc.
 

haketh

Champion
Bane players are some of the most delusional players on this site. This really thinking Bane and Doomsday are anywhere close to the same level of viability.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Bane players are some of the most delusional players on this site. This nigga really thinking Bane and Doomsday are anywhere close to the same level of viability.
Theres about 30 characters, hold one. Bane is regarded as mid-tier so he is anywhere from top 20-top 15 depending how you look at it.
Doomsday is said to not be top 10, so that means Bane is anywhere from 9 to 4 spaces behind Doomsday. Considering theres not much difference in-between characters outside of S tier and the very bottom, I'd say yes Bane has the same general area of viability.
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
If a tech requires to be hidden to work it means it's a bad shenanigan that will only work once if you're lucky. Then any top player will adapt to it. If you have a great setup then it shouldn't matter if it's known or not because it's up to the player to mix it up.

Plus I noticed that all the players who hide their tech or gameplay because they "play to win" always end up losing in the end. I'm not going to name players but it happens in every game lol. Fundamentals and overall knowledge are always more important than having a large bag of tricks.
That's just it though: most if not all top players have amazing fundamentals and can usually ride that alone to top of the brackets. But hiding tech isn't 'gimmicky'. It's the answer to a problem or a re-application of the already solid game play. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the community never knew about MB B3 beating a MB Supernova. Doomsday players are running rampant and dominating top play. VxG comes down to Chris G vs Perfect Legend, and Legend has been using Supernova a lot. All of a sudden, Chris G MBs through Supernova and Perfect Legend is put on tilt, his formerly excellent use of Supernova nullified for the rest of the set Perfect Legend is forced to adapt to this on the fly, and if It was already 2-2, he may not be able to. The day after, it loses shock value and becomes commonplace knowledge, but in clutch situations where one win means the difference, the surprise factor is not to be underestimated. Top players do not rely on gimmicks to win, but they are the ones who make the best use of it.
 

haketh

Champion
A better example would be how people held onto the knowledge of how Roll Cancelling affected the metagame of CVS2 until Tokido revealed the stuff you could do with A-Groove Honda.
 

VizNasty

Noob
WNF is obviously an excellent local, with huge competition. But one's approach to a local, even a great one, is likely rather different from their approach to a major. Weeklys aren't majors. That said, for someone fairly new to this scene, I find it odd that every annual tournament is considered a major. Think of golf or tennis. Many big tournaments, only four majors. I think FGC needs to rethink what is a major and what is just a big/good tournament.
 

Perfect Legend

Kombatant
That's just it though: most if not all top players have amazing fundamentals and can usually ride that alone to top of the brackets. But hiding tech isn't 'gimmicky'. It's the answer to a problem or a re-application of the already solid game play. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the community never knew about MB B3 beating a MB Supernova. Doomsday players are running rampant and dominating top play. VxG comes down to Chris G vs Perfect Legend, and Legend has been using Supernova a lot. All of a sudden, Chris G MBs through Supernova and Perfect Legend is put on tilt, his formerly excellent use of Supernova nullified for the rest of the set Perfect Legend is forced to adapt to this on the fly, and if It was already 2-2, he may not be able to. The day after, it loses shock value and becomes commonplace knowledge, but in clutch situations where one win means the difference, the surprise factor is not to be underestimated. Top players do not rely on gimmicks to win, but they are the ones who make the best use of it.

I honestly don't remember doing supernova in that match besides maybe one time.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Okay let me make it readable for you

1. black adam does more damage
2. black adam shuts down trait with black magik and in ex lighnting
3. black adam's trait grants him a free 12% everytime doomsday get its in, black adam can just push block
4.black adam has a great wake up game, doomsday is all about knockdown pressure
5. black adam controls the interactables
6. doomsdays only way to get in is meter burn shoulder... black adam can back dash out, which can be punished, however if i make the right read i get 40+%
7. i can dive kick rather freely, and over his head to keep distance rather easily
8. doomsday is so floaty in midair hes easy to anti-air with projectiles
9. the only time doomsday starts to win is if i corner myself, and the only way he beats my knockdown is by burning meter or jumping straight up which can be dashed under... he can also be push blocked
let me correct this post

you never use black magic against doomsday when in trait. ever. on block he gets a free dash which is guaranteed to be in your face at + while you still recover. smart DDs will be anticipating attempts to shut down their trait while they have it on so you do the most broken projectile in the game, ex lightning.

on hit its 12% damage vs his trait, stuns him the say as blk magic and pushes him back on hit wasting 3/5 of his trait and putting him farther, making you having to deal with the trait for just 2 seconds. ex lightning on block also spends 2/5 of his trait and pushes back equal to a lil more than jump distance, forcing him to jump or dash in which wastes even more trait time and suddenly you dont have to deal with it. i have been saying this since day fucking 1

point being, black magic is terribad because ex lightning benefits you no matter what the DD player has done

you dont divekick freely, the only time youd ever wanna divekick is when - youre already max height and have baited a venom or you wanna check em, freely is a very loose term because if you do it while in the air the DD player can full combo punish you.

BA does not control the interactibles, this is extremely false, grab an interactible at the wrong time and say hi to the corner as you get venomed and your characters name has suddenly changed to "Wallpaper"

Using trait raw will destroy you, you rely on trait for b2 trait throw.

for the love of god, BA does not have a demolishing wakeup game vs DD like you present it, what happens if DD does MB venom? or dash in trait? or maybe just jump at the right timing that beats cage and hands which was in my guide? hasnt anyone been looking at those? cage is no longer a dominant wakeup due to ppl not knowing how to deal w it.

doomsday is not all about wakeup pressure, hes all about punishing stupid shit your opponent does, its extremely obvious, even his trait was designed to either force ppl to mash buttons or stay blocking while shitting their pants.

the corner is not when doomsday starts winning, he dominates, you dont want to pushblock him while in the corner in any way, you cant make back your meter via zoning there and there is really no freedom when hes just one venom away

youre just beginning to understand the matchup but over half of these are not the reasons DD loses and just misinformation
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
I honestly don't remember doing supernova in that match besides maybe one time.
you shouldn't remember since it was a theoretical example. I just wanted to use the most recent tournament as an example. Supernova just isn't worth it really anyways.

Also, damn good job at VxG
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
These people who say bane is mid to upper mid have no idea what they're talking about. Happy?
Have you played against a good Bane? And by that i mean a GOOD Bane? He is not bottom tier as people tend to believe. Imo, if played correctly he is top 15. Bane requires thinking unlike the majority of the IGAU cast.
 
Have you played against a good Bane? And by that i mean a GOOD Bane? He is not bottom tier as people tend to believe. Imo, if played correctly he is top 15. Bane requires thinking unlike the majority of the IGAU cast.
Where would I find one of these miracle workers? I don't believe anything until i see it.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Boy, wouldn't that suck if you were blind?


This might scratch your itch
Where would I find one of these miracle workers? I don't believe anything until i see it.
I hate when I play people online w a character I've used for a week and learning their MUs an they record and post videos


Obviously learning the MU (example tried parrying charges for three matches )