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Improving Injustice!

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
You're giving up meter for life. Meter is more important. The change I propose only benefits the player willing to spend all 4 bars of meter, the rest is virtually the same as the current system.

Looks like you read "increase life gain" and flipped out without checking the numbers I provided and the current numbers.
You are not getting it. Zoners build hella meter and almost always will have four bars to spend. And when they do, they can gain 40% making it even harder for the person trying to get in.

The clash system as it is is perfect imo
 

cpmd4

Slaughter is the Best Medicine
I'm not sure if another d2 buff is warranted. We don't want to remove jump-ins as an option, and if we do get the walkspeed buff then there's less reason to jump everywhere anyway. Are there honestly still characters that have terrible d2s?

I will disagree on the point of respawning interactables. Especially since you can punish people for interactable use and that they are all avoidable for the most part (poor staff stance Nightwing...). For things like the Gotham dumpster or Arkham pig, reduce their damage greatly. They can be reused very quickly and are too powerful, I agree, but I don't think they need to be reduced to one use. As for general interactable damage, I agree here as well. Reduce it.

Finally starting with one bar of meter is a bad idea, I think. Sure it opens up MB b3's all around, but characters with strong MB'd specials are now starting with a large advantage over the other characters. NRS balanced openings around having no meter, this could bring more trouble then it's worth.

/mytwocents
 

Protagonist_1

Champion
When I say MB B3 / F3 I'm including the dash cancel. By making it impervious to damage it can be used as a punishment and offense tool.

It is currently used despite taking full damage for attempting so. By removing the damage penalty you can rest assured its use will skyrocket.

I think Karried suggest something similar, that MB b3/f3 and MBDC(meter burn dash cancel) should have recoverable health, similar to SF4. I for one would LOVE to see recoverable health on MB b3/f3, maybe even reduce the damage taken as well so if a person has little health then can still use MBDC to punish an interactable to possibly clutch out a round. It would be used a lot more in tourney play for sure. What do you think @Juggs ?

It could also help characters deal better with interactables better, and add more depth to the game. :)
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
You are not getting it. Zoners build hella meter and almost always will have four bars to spend. And when they do, they can gain 40% making it even harder for the person trying to get in.

The clash system as it is is perfect imo
What zoners are powerful without meter? Raven is the only one that comes to mind thanks to her trait, maybe Zod with instant air shots, and of course Duperman.

Deathstroke got nerfed on low guns; Sinestro only shoots 1 thing at a time, is hella negative, and not that hard to dodge; and can't think of another zoner...
 

Grave__Intent

Death's Trusty Side-Kick!
Here's my take on it,
1. Normalize Interactables where they all do either 20% or 25% damage that's all. The ones that do 40% is WAY OP (ie.. Museum Stage Helicopter tail).
2. Make opponents not as far away from each other after a Clash. Quarter screen would be perfect it still re-sets the situation, but you don't have to chase Zoners full screen at least.
3. Change the system that gives 1 bar of meter to the 1st attacker to where the defender gets the meter instead. YES, it would make the game a bit more "Footsies" based at least at the start of a match.
4. Add an extra 4% to the health gained from the last bar of meter spend on a Clash so it totals 7% and is actually worth spending that last bar for.
5. Fix the auto facing correct to get rid of these new Unblockable resets. The characters currently don't correct their facing fast enough, so this allows for players to abuse the glitch/bug and do over 100% damage on the reset.
6. Speed up the damn Walk Speed for crying out loud! Have you ever seen a fight where opponents just casually stroll towards each other? NO!
7. I know you said no character specific stuff but Zod can completely glitch the stage your on with his trait bug. I've seen Metropolice Rooftop go crazy shacking constantly with this. FIX IT!

I think if these issues and a few character balance issues were implemented the game would be AWESOME!
 

Protagonist_1

Champion
If IGAU 2 was more like KoF XIII I'd jerk it till I died.

Roll Evasion, HD gauge super canceling, HD mode combos, normal cancels, projectile nullification, guard breaks, hops, good walk speed, a run...Jesus Christ it is so amazing for footsies and its meter game while staying so balanced. Its my standard that I hold non aerial combo based fighters to now. NRS could learn a LOT by studying it, because with simple inputs, strong single player and footsie/meter game as good as that you'd have the perfect fighting game. By comparison to it the footsies in this game are really dull for me along with how repetitive the combo system is.

Injustice is its own thing, but it could really learn a lot from KoF XIII.
Man, if Injustice had KOF's movement I don't think a single person on this forum would complain about it. The movement in that game is godlike. Wouldn't mind seeing something like that for injustice 2. :D
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
What zoners are powerful without meter? Raven is the only one that comes to mind thanks to her trait, maybe Zod with instant air shots, and of course Duperman.

Deathstroke got nerfed on low guns; Sinestro only shoots 1 thing at a time, is hella negative, and not that hard to dodge; and can't think of another zoner...
The point of zoning is to build meter, so it doesnt really matter with no meter as they will build it back by the time you get back in.

I see no reason to change the clash system. Especially not in the defenders favor.
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
The point of zoning is to build meter, so it doesnt really matter with no meter as they will build it back by the time you get back in.

I see no reason to change the clash system. Especially not in the defenders favor.
I would argue that the point of zoning is to safely get damage from long range. It just so happens that in Injustice, meter builds really fast off of specials (on whiff and even more on block), AND they do like 2-3% each time. I think it's also a bit fucked up that MB specials still build meter. If you block Black Adam MB lightning, it does like 6% and builds back a not insignificant amount of the meter that he spent to use it.
 

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
I would argue that the point of zoning is to safely get damage from long range. It just so happens that in Injustice, meter builds really fast off of specials (on whiff and even more on block), AND they do like 2-3% each time. I think it's also a bit fucked up that MB specials still build meter. If you block Black Adam MB lightning, it does like 6% and builds back a not insignificant amount of the meter that he spent to use it.
I never even noticed that. That's extremely fucked up...
 

DominicanAddy94

I'm on PSN
What I dislike the most about this game is the recovery after dashing. Why can't you cancel it? I don't understand that at all. Also the ridiculously large size of the screen. A smaller screen, faster walk speed, and the ability to cancel dashes would be the best for the game IMO. Not much else is needed.
 
One thing I think needs to be clarified at least is what's up with Banes level 3 venom. Specifically what counts as a projectile as far as what we think is "projectile immunity".

You completely avoid deathstrokes guns and even batman trait, but not BA lightning (ex or not) GL minigun is apparently not a projectile either. So what gives? I just want clarity if its working as intended. If not, would be i nice change.

Sent from my Gameboy Color using Tapatalk 2
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
-Improve walkspeed

-Greatly improve character Traits until EVERYONE has a godlike trait. I think all characters gameplan should be centered around their trait. Especially buff Harley Quinn, Cyborg and Deathstroke, Joker's traits.

-Improve Supers across the board (except for the already good ones like Supes/Green Arrow). Reduce their startup, increase damage and also make them scale less in combos.

-Make bounce cancels cost 1 meter instead of 2. They are not that good and are rarely used because of the high cost. But they have potential to help some characters pressure.

-Slightly improve Clash rewards when you wager 4 meters.

-Make Pushblock +5 frame advantage instead of neutral.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Lately a lot of people have been complaining about something in regards to Injustice. Some people say Superman or other characters are broken or too good, other people say there's problems with the actual design of the game, and then some people say there needs to be universal gameplay changes.

I'm not here to lecture anyone because I too have complained about the game in some way or another. But, I have gotten tired of all the complaining though as it seems every single topic on TYM these days either starts out as complaining or turns into complaining. And I don't want to complain about the complaining either so I decided to attempt to make a constructive thread on what is needed to improve the game.

Now, I have no illusions that this will somehow be the one thread on TYM that is constructive, or that everyone will post reasonable responses in a constructive manner. But I hope you guys at least try and take this seriously and not just troll like you do in every other thread, lol. I want this thread to try and stay generally positive, if such a thing is even possible.

What I want is your opinion on gameplay elements that you think need to be altered in order to make improvements with this game. I'm not talking about balance changes because those are always all over the place and usually there's 1 decent idea out of 100. So please refrain from posting character specific stuff.

I love Injustice and I'm having fun with it, but think it could be so much better with a few adjustments here and there. I'm not trying to get the game that I want or trying to buff MY characters or anything like that. I just think that this game has so much potential it's missing out on by just barely missing the mark on a few things. I also want to say I'm not a game designer, I'm not a game tester, I'm just a player with my own opinions and can only speak to MY opinions.

With that said, here's my thoughts on what I would improve/change:

Universal Gameplay Changes:

1. Faster walk speed - I think the number one thing that would really improve this game on a fundamental level is universally increasing the walk speed for every character. This would help in more than one area. It would help against zoning by allowing you to simply walk in between projectiles. You can already do this, but the walk speed is so slow that they will have already built so much meter, done some chip damage, and ran out the clock... all while you do nothing but try and advance on them. Another area this would help out is the footsies. Arguably the weakest part of Injustice is the lack of solid footsies. With the walk speed being as slow as it is, and dashes having longer recovery, you don't get very strong footsies in this game. This is also due to jump ins being really powerful, but one of the other reasons jumping is so prevalent is because it's the only way you can get that mid range mobility. Walking inches you across the screen, and dashes jolt you pretty far but have a lot of recovery, so that mid range distance is really only covered by jumping. The walk speed is also one of the reasons why advancing normals are so good in this game (Superman's f23, for example).

2. Another Universal d2 Buff - The original d2 buff was really good and really helped the game a lot. But I think they need to be beefed just a little more to really discourage jumping. Jumping being the first and best option would be okay if you could be punish for a easily readable jump-in attempt. But a lot of the time, you can know for a fact that they're going to jump at you, and still either trade with your anti-air, or flat out lose to their jump-in. The d2 buff helped a lot, but there's still very little risk jumping in since the d2 anti-air (for a lot of characters), just isn't as consistent as I think it ought to be. D2 just needs one more little buff and I think it would be perfect!

3. Starting out with one bar of meter - I recently heard this mentioned by I think Perfect Legend. He made a great point on how you would actually be able to MB B3 at the beginning of a match to catch some people who always try to get a quick first hit if we were to start off with a bar of meter. It would be a whole other level of yomi when you actually can do MB attacks at the start of the match, much like in MK9. It would also increase the pace of the match a bit not having to build that initial first bar of meter.

4. Normalize Interactables! - I really honestly do love interactables and think they're a good addition to this game. They add a lot, but being SO good they also take away a little. I don't want them nerfed so they're not ever used, not at all. I want people to use them all the time, just as much as they do now. But, instead of 15%, maybe only do 10%. Instead of a really big hitbox, make it a medium sized hitbox. Just small "normalizations" to make them not so overbearing. Again, I really want to stress how much I want interactables to stay a big part of Injustice. I just don't want them being the main focus of the match.

There's some more stuff that I would like changed (such as adding more recovery to moves so that they can be punished), but these are the main 4 for me. This thread may have been a terrible idea, but who knows, maybe something good can come out of it!
completely agree
 

godlessmode

Apprentice
For people saying that the clash system needs to reward spending 4 bars more. That's not the intent, the only time you should be spending 4 bars of meter is when you think the opponent is spending 3. Unless you think you are going to REALLY need that 3% to pull out a win (in which case you're probably not going to win regardless).

If you make it so that spending 4 bars of meter is valuable in and of itself you reduce the meta of the clash system quite a bit.
 

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!
What I dislike the most about this game is the recovery after dashing. Why can't you cancel it? I don't understand that at all. Also the ridiculously large size of the screen. A smaller screen, faster walk speed, and the ability to cancel dashes would be the best for the game IMO. Not much else is needed.

Dash cancelling would require much of the game to be reworked.
 

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!



1. "MK9's movement ended up too complex and technical for your average joe to utilize. SF4 is popular and people have an easier time understanding and utilizing that game's movement aspect, so let's sort of copy it."
.
Mk9's movement isn't really that complex at all. That's more so a Tekken thing. Even if it was, I doubt "complexity" would be the reason. They're not really copying SF4 movement either. They intended Injustice to be a back to block game so not being able to cancel your dashes with a block button is a no brainer.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I think situations with guaranteed, safe, loopable, unfuzzyable 50/50s where your only option is to guess right or die are dumb
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
I'm very much about walk speed being increased. This game has no safe mobility and that is why the best rushdown characters are the ones that have safe advancing attacks. Supes's f23, GL's b13, Frost's slide, Adam's Divekick/b2~trait/b23, etc.

I can also get behind interactables being nerfed at least for damage, especially for buffed characters.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
I wish footsies were more important in this game. I think it was a great first attempt by NRS but I'm looking forward to an improved part 2. This went from my main game to a party game I play on the side. It's not even the tiers that bother me, it's NRS constantly making patches so it's hard to memorize everything. Granted the game isn't super deep, but still. This is no different than MK9 where the wrong chars are getting patched and the great ones (WW) are not touched
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
The sheer volume of complaints and people who have dropped the game should tell NRS that they did something wrong.
 

Spinky

Neutral Skipper
You should be able to block interactables. They do 20% damage or something, they track, and they're unblockable.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Improving walk speed across the board would primarily help the already strongest characters in the game, particularly Superman. How does that seem like a good idea?
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Improving walk speed across the board would primarily help the already strongest characters in the game, particularly Superman. How does that seem like a good idea?
Don't do it across the board. Do it on a case by case basis.

For instance, if the character's entire game relies on being midscreen-up close(Bane, Catwoman, Grundy, etc.) then buff their walkspeeds.

The sheer volume of complaints and people who have dropped the game should tell NRS that they did something wrong.
Or that some people just don't like the game. I for one would be fine if they just stopped patching all together and let the game develop. The only things they have done "wrong" are glitches and bugs. Anything else is all completely subjective and is often a result of the community not labbing hard enough( ex: interactables as a whole are avoidable, most of the time for a full combo).