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Injustice Post Evo Question: Numbers after Evo

Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
This is the problem with the Superman argument. If he was such a braindead character...then ANYONE would have been in Grand Finals with him. However...based on actual results....the better players seem to be the ones placing high. Then again, the double-standard of Test Your Might will rear its head again.

Good players win with skill when we say they're good.
Unless they play a character we don't like. Then they're scrubby.
You can't say a player gets to Top 8 with fundamentals and then say the game doesn't have fundamentals and that any scrub can win. It's completely insane and makes absolutely no sense.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
godlessmode said:
Then why are the top 8 placings so damn consistent, even the superman players are all arguably top players.

If F23 is so dominate, and requires so little skill, shouldnt we be seeing randoms place well with Superman?
Click to expand...
Because f.23 is a dominant footsie tool, that doesn't mean the player is able to utilize it to full effectiveness.
Unless you are insisting someone can win using only one attack
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Rude said:
Wow. What arrogance. I'm glad you can make a solid judgement on my play ability without...you know...actually playing me? What a snob.

Anyway...you are dodging the argument completely. I do get it. F23 is amazing. It's not unstoppable.

Kabal is also good. These two things don't have to be linked to one another. They're not the same character or game. And if Superman doesn't require such skill...does that mean KDZ is a shit player?

Also...you've yet to name me who the bad players in EVO Top 32 are.

You arguments are based on overreaction and hyperbole. Yes, Kabal requires skill. I never said he didn't. I said high execution isn't the ONLY aspect of skill.
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KDZ is what happens when u take a phenomenal player combined w a broken character

If u gave KDZ kabal same thing would happen but the difference is I can say that about less people than superman

As for the top 32? Every single player that uses superman .....most of them admit it publicly
 
godlessmode

godlessmode

Apprentice
Doombawkz said:
Because f.23 is a dominant footsie tool, that doesn't mean the player is able to utilize it to full effectiveness.
Unless you are insisting someone can win using only one attack
Click to expand...

That's my point Doom. Pig is currently arguing that Superman is unreasonably good, and doesn't require skill to win with, and if he did require skill to win with, it would be "okay" much like Kabal.

And yet, the only people winning with Superman at tournaments have skill. Are as far as I have seen consistently winning. Are as far as I have seen ARE skilled players.
 
Skkra

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
AK Pig Of The Hut said:
I think we are taking the game seriously still with a grain of salt because many are worried about this game being dominated by 5 characters. Its almost as if not playing the top 5 characters then you arent playing the game
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Thats pretty crazy... it almost reminds me of this other game that I think the same studio made?... :REO
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
godlessmode said:
That's my point Doom. Pig is currently arguing that Superman is unreasonably good, and doesn't require skill to win with, and if he did require skill to win with, it would be "okay" much like Kabal.

And yet, the only people winning with Superman at tournaments have skill. Are as far as I have seen consistently winning. Are as far as I have seen ARE skilled players.
Click to expand...
Ok? I don't recall him saying the ones who win evo are "bad players" so much as they play an easy character that's not as command intensive as the rest, with f.23 being a good amount of footsie material to work with.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
AK Pig Of The Hut said:
KDZ is what happens when u take a phenomenal player combined w a broken character

If u gave KDZ kabal same thing would happen but the difference is I can say that about less people than superman

As for the top 32? Every single player that uses superman .....most of them admit it publicly
Click to expand...
So...to be clear....

You're saying that every one in Top 8...who beat many, many skilled players....are actually bad players with no fundamentals.

What arrogance.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Rude said:
This is the problem with the Superman argument. If he was such a braindead character...then ANYONE would have been in Grand Finals with him. However...based on actual results....the better players seem to be the ones placing high. Then again, the double-standard of Test Your Might will rear its head again.

Good players win with skill when we say they're good.
Unless they play a character we don't like. Then they're scrubby.
You can't say a player gets to Top 8 with fundamentals and then say the game doesn't have fundamentals and that any scrub can win. It's completely insane and makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...
Rude I think you're missing a large part of the argument

IMO this game is 5-6 characters

Do u know what footsies even looks like in this game?

Frost vs Adam footsies are DK vs d2 and slide lol.....that's a problem
 
godlessmode

godlessmode

Apprentice
Doombawkz said:
Ok? I don't recall him saying the ones who win evo are "bad players" so much as they play an easy character that's not as command intensive as the rest, with f.23 being a good amount of footsie material to work with.
Click to expand...

Re-read his posts? He just stated that other than KDZ the top 32 players only got to top 32 because of how good superman is....
 
Smarrgasm

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Rude what pig is saying is that yeah Kabal dominates MK and Superman does insanely well in this one as well. Pig just wants to know why its so easy for Superman to do so.

I practice superman maybe 5-10 minutes a day and i can beat tons of great players mains with him who they have been playing from day 1. You cannot do that with Kabal. You have to actually play Kabal to unlock the power that he has.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Rude said:
So...to be clear....

You're saying that every one in Top 8...who beat many, many skilled players....are actually bad players with no fundamentals.

What arrogance.
Click to expand...
Good to great players using OP character on which most admit

Arrogance? Well I could lie to I and talk privately w everyone else who agrees but u asked.

I so think superman is right up your alley
 
Cat

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
Rude said:
So...to be clear....

You're saying that every one in Top 8...who beat many, many skilled players....are actually bad players with no fundamentals.

What arrogance.
Click to expand...
Ranmasama got top 16 with a 1 day superman.

Mf slayer made top 8 with a week old superman.

Its simple to place with him. Now imagine dedicating time. You will win free.

I wemt 3-2 in mm$ against rico with a 5 hour superman. He plays vs the char a ton yet I stood a chance? Lol

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
godlessmode said:
Re-read his posts? He just stated that other than KDZ the top 32 players only got to top 32 because of how good superman is....
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Most of them did. I've seen them play, they all play the same. In other words, the character's natural tools are effective in spite of the player themselves, and while good players do great, its hard for bad players to do bad.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
AK Pig Of The Hut said:
Rude I think you're missing a large part of the argument

IMO this game is 5-6 characters

Do u know what footsies even looks like in this game?

Frost vs Adam footsies are DK vs d2 and slide lol.....that's a problem
Click to expand...
I never said the game was 100% balanced.
It could use some work. However, it's not trash just because every action doesn't start with a down poke.
My problem has always been the overglorification of MK. Especially when you consider that people were talking about dropping MK, there were many podcasts debating the end of times for MK, long before Injustice ever came out.

My point, in a nutshell: BOTH games are flawed. BOTH games have problems. Both are still fun and shouldn't be compared to one another because they're not the same.
That, and the logic that scrub players beat good players is absolute bullshit. Tournament results have proven this. No random DaRock3322 has beaten REO with Superman, or you with Supes, or KDZ. It still takes skill.

Execution is only ONE aspect of skill. Not the whole package. Am I being more clear?
 
Smarrgasm

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
godlessmode said:
Oh, so KDZ isn't good? Or was there some other top placing Superman who is bad at the game?

I'd love to know who that is and what evidence you have of their relative skill.
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MF Slayer admitted to having a 1 week superman and never practicing the game or caring about it. WINNERS TOP 8.

Its hard not to look like the bad guy when talking about these things. I feel bad for some of the Superman players cause it happens with every top character in any game. I get called out for only doing well with Black Adam. People wanna call out tournament results for everything instead of trying to look objectively.


Just look at Superman. His execution is easy mode, he has an 8 frame far advancing mid, decent zoning, etc. Now put that in any competent players hands and you have a problem.

Look at Kabal now. Good zoning rush down and everything, but takes practice and execution to really unlock these abilities. This makes it where the player has to be good at execution and smart with the character to do well.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Cat said:
Ranmasama got top 16 with a 1 day superman.

Mf slayer made top 8 with a week old superman.

Its simple to place with him. Now imagine dedicating time. You will win free.

I wemt 3-2 in mm$ against rico with a 5 hour superman. He plays vs the char a ton yet I stood a chance? Lol

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
You're talking about the time they spent with the character.

BUT...are the players themselves bad? As fighting game players, period. Are they scrubs? Because that has what has been said. Would they lose if they used anyone else?

Also...I've heard these same arguments the very first EVO that Kung Lao was around. Look back at those topics. People were saying the same things. There were day 1 and week 1 Kung Laos.
 
godlessmode

godlessmode

Apprentice
AK Smarrgasm said:
MF Slayer admitted to having a 1 week superman and never practicing the game or caring about it. WINNERS TOP 8.
Click to expand...

How much of that was on the back of his strong MK9/General FGC fundamentals? Look, by no means am I disputing that Superman has a low learning curve compared to some of the other characters in the game. But that doesn't make him OP.

I hate to bring the discussion to UMVC3 but unfortunately that is where I have seen the most comparable example to this. In MVC3 Wesker was considered top of the top for the first year or two of competition.

He was considered so OP because he had such a low learning curve, while being fundamentally sound.

He wasn't nerfed (was actually arguably buffed) and is now considered competitive, but far from the top.

Superman may not be OP. He might just be so easy to use that it appears that way with how young the game is. The game IS young.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
godlessmode said:
How much of that was on the back of his strong MK9/General FGC fundamentals? Look, by no means am I disputing that Superman has a low learning curve compared to some of the other characters in the game. But that doesn't make him OP.

I hate to bring the discussion to UMVC3 but unfortunately that is where I have seen the most comparable example to this. In MVC3 Wesker was considered top of the top for the first year or two of competition.

He was considered so OP because he had such a low learning curve, while being fundamentally sound.

He wasn't nerfed (was actually arguably buffed) and is now considered competitive, but far from the top.

Superman may not be OP. He might just be so easy to use that it appears that way with how young the game is. The game IS young.
Click to expand...
Don't you know that this game is simple and not very deep? Ask m2dave
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
godlessmode said:
Superman may not be OP. He might just be so easy to use that it appears that way with how young the game is. The game IS young.
Click to expand...
8-frame neutral tool that's safe on block and covers huge range
50-60% combos for 1 bar after normalization
Full screen overhead 2-frame super
Armor breaking and a 20% damage boost with no draw-back whatsoever
Great meter gain
Two projectiles, one of which hits overhead the other doing about 5% in chip
Air dash and a.d.3 allowing him cross-ups like crazy
Combos are simple, straightforward, efficient, damaging, and all around easy to set-up


The game may be young, but looking at the rest of the cast how is this not tilted?
 
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