"I win. I always win." - The Official General Zod Discussion Thread

[Disaster FX]

Yeah, I meant without using any interactions or anything. The electrical wires in the Bat cave work as well.

Hadn't thought of that one. Yeah, the FoS ship sets the perfect juggle state for a summon and combo afterwards, but unfortunately nothing in Zod's arsenal does, would have been cool.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I highly doubt we will find one, especially a practical one. The trait takes forever so come out, + the lag it has before it can attack, + the 13 frames for the overhead. Besides, I don't really find it a good mid combo use of trait. That really only applies to a MB Ground Laser.

 

[Swoops]

Jesus...Zod vs Nightwing is sooooo dumb. Staff low shots shut down pretty much anything Zod could ever hope to get started. I mean he doesn't really need to rush you down even, but I'm sure it would fuck Zod up if he even decided to. It seems like the only saving grace for Zod in this match up would be parry

 

[CKZaibatsu]

Speaking of Zod's counter, he has two different animations when you counter someone. This is definitely NOT useful information but still neat. I've only seen Zod break someone's leg (alternate animation) when said opponent has done R1 near an intractable that you can kick someone off of.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

The more and more we learn about Zod, the more and more it seems he sucks vs all the top tierenest people. Superman better at close range and far, Sinestro zoning shuts him down, Nightwing Ground Pound, Aquaman Shield and being better at mid range. Either give him something to respect up close or make his keepaway game better.

Have you tried instant air Zod charge vs Nightwing?

It'd be pretty hard to buff him though, but probably the best way to improve Zod is shift the frame data on his trait around a bit. I think if he were to get out the Wraith sooner, but have more after lag, while still being the same amount of frames for the total shebang, it'd help a lot. That way, he could get Wraith out vs zoning characters more often.

 

[Swoops]

The more and more we learn about Zod, the more and more it seems he sucks vs all the top tierenest people. Superman better at close range and far, Sinestro zoning shuts him down, Nightwing Ground Pound, Aquaman Shield and being better at mid range. Either give him something to respect up close or make his keepaway game better.

Have you tried instant air Zod charge vs Nightwing?

It'd be pretty hard to buff him though, but probably the best way to improve Zod is shift the frame data on his trait around a bit. I think if he were to get out the Wraith sooner, but have more after lag, while still being the same amount of frames for the total shebang, it'd help a lot. That way, he could get Wraith out vs zoning characters more often.

Honestly IAZC doesn't help much when Nightwing is completely content to sit back and harass with staff. Although I'm not great at them yet so maybe it could help if I got it down.

He definitely needs frames sped up on his zoning tools. I wouldn't mind a speed buff to wraith but I don't think it's particularly necessary. I think a big speed buff to his f3 would be super helpful. Like it should be killer frost levels with that shitty range it has.

 

[DeadlyCreampuff]

He definitely needs frames sped up on his zoning tools.

Maybe on pistol, actually I don't think anything would be wrong with pistol being improved in the speed category as long as the rifle remains slow(Seeing as one blocks ground lazer the same way one avoids Pistol I wouldn't mind that at all actually). What the rifle does is really really good and might be dangerous if sped up too much. I might be able to be convinced of better recovery, but I think air rifle stole all the fast recovery :3

I wouldn't mind a speed buff to wraith but I don't think it's particularly necessary.

Wraiths attack are fine, 13f each is fantastic for what they do. I can imagine summon speeds being tweaked, but I think it's way too soon to worry about that. This trait has so many good things I wubs it <3

I think a big speed buff to his f3 would be super helpful. Like it should be killer frost levels with that shitty range it has.

Though the following might be coloured by my experience as an Adam, I feel it would be horrible to make his f3 that good, even with it's range. I've jokingly referred to Zod as reverse Adam(though not as bad, as the f3, despite slowness, actually leads to combos on hit, none of Adams Lows can say the same) and what might be better is having a faster ground blast(but slower charge perhaps?)or just a fast MB one to make the 213/21xxGB or 12/1xxGB more competent. This would also likely improve his zoning game and might be way too greedy. But you wouldn't hear me complain :3

In short, I'd welcome any buffs, but find it way too soon to be considering them as I do feel he is very competent in a lot of ways. He does seem to lack a can opener mixup or chip kill threat vs truly patient players, so I'm curious where it all goes

 

[Briggs8417]

Wow, this place is depressing. I haven't been having a whole lot of trouble so far.

 

[Disaster FX]

Wow, this place is depressing. I haven't been having a whole lot of trouble so far.

Same here. Biggest trouble I've been having is Batman and Aquaman, but that seems mutual with pretty much every character. I thought Sinestro would be rough, but whiff punishing with Zod Charge is pretty scary for Sinestro.

 

[Briggs8417]

Same here. Biggest trouble I've been having is Batman and Aquaman, but that seems mutual with pretty much every character. I thought Sinestro would be rough, but whiff punishing with Zod Charge is pretty scary for Sinestro.

I haven't gotten a chance to play any Batman's with him yet, but Aquaman is pretty scary I can't deny that lol. Sinestro just takes a bit more caution than most characters, but he is definitely magable. Like you said he can't whiff anything, or jump really. He might be able to jumpe with a well timed Axe of Terror.

 

[Disaster FX]

I haven't gotten a chance to play any Batman's with him yet, but Aquaman is pretty scary I can't deny that lol. Sinestro just takes a bit more caution than most characters, but he is definitely magable. Like you said he can't whiff anything, or jump really. He might be able to jumpe with a well timed Axe of Terror.

Problem I have with Aquaman is that damn trait, any time MB Ground Blast is used, they get 3 seconds to react and get out of the combo for free. Pretty sure he can do the same to Wraith Grab. From the Deep is rough to deal with too, more or less takes Zodball zoning out of the picture. He just seems to have an answer to a lot of Zod's stuff.

 

[Briggs8417]

Problem I have with Aquaman is that damn trait, any time MB Ground Blast is used, they get 3 seconds to react and get out of the combo for free. Pretty sure he can do the same to Wraith Grab. From the Deep is rough to deal with too, more or less takes Zodball zoning out of the picture. He just seems to have an answer to a lot of Zod's stuff.

Yeah it's hella easy for him to bust out trait when he gets hit by pretty much anything and that is kind of sucky. Throw that in with the fact that Zod can't zone him and Aquaman's normals are better and he is a problem. It doesn't feel 3-7 bad, but definitely 4-6.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Problem I have with Aquaman is that damn trait, any time MB Ground Blast is used, they get 3 seconds to react and get out of the combo for free. Pretty sure he can do the same to Wraith Grab. From the Deep is rough to deal with too, more or less takes Zodball zoning out of the picture. He just seems to have an answer to a lot of Zod's stuff.

I doubt he can get out of Wraith grab with trait, but I remember someone saying Water Shield nullifies his entire trait. Couple that with better mid range moves and From the Deep and it's just a nightmare.

Wow, this place is depressing. I haven't been having a whole lot of trouble so far.

Zod hasn't been out a week and to top it off he's a naturally bizarre character. People have no clue how to deal with him. Leads to a lot of people blocking high a lot and getting lasered in multiple ways.

 

[Briggs8417]

I doubt he can get out of Wraith grab with trait, but I remember someone saying Water Shield nullifies his entire trait. Couple that with better mid range moves and From the Deep and it's just a nightmare.



Zod hasn't been out a week and to top it off he's a naturally bizarre character. People have no clue how to deal with him. Leads to a lot of people blocking high a lot and getting lasered in multiple ways.

He was talking about you can't follow up wraith grab with anything because of his trait. Also, I don't think that is the case. I deal with more turtles than anything so far playing Zod. You have to force the opponent to play the way you want them to otherwise you will get disrepected. If people crouch block to the point you can't zone anymore then throw out a slow ball and get behind it. People won't be jumping a lot on Zod that's something you don't have to worry about.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

He was talking about you can't follow up wraith grab with anything because of his trait. Also, I don't think that is the case. I deal with more turtles than anything so far playing Zod. You have to force the opponent to play the way you want them to otherwise you will get disrepected. If people crouch block to the point you can't zone anymore then throw out a slow ball and get behind it. People won't be jumping a lot on Zod that's something you don't have to worry about.

No, it isn't the case, because Wraith will knock them down when it's down, and you can just dash up from anywhere on the screen and b3 for full combo.

If they just crouch block you, activate trait and have fun.

 

[Swoops]

I wouldn't say this place is depressing >.<. M2dave used the word "mediocre," but everyone took it to mean "absolutely shitty." He's definitely not a bad character, but so far his tools don't seem to be that threatening to characters like aquaman, Nightwing, deathstroke, and I'm sure at least a few others. I think he's a competent character too, but I also think lobo is a competent character and he should get some buffs too.

It may be premature, but I sometimes think that NRS is only listening to the people that cry the loudest. Hence mostly nerfs. I'd rather have everybody be super saiyan.

Buuuut, on a more gameplay oriented note, laser set ups are too good. So you know how d12 causes a hard knockdown on airborne opponents? Well so does our plain d1. This leads into some nasty enders with charge laser.

So basically, if you end a juggle with d1 xx close laser (hold), you can get a meaty laser that will catch the opponent doing anything but wake up. Here's what gets really fun. If you time the set up well, Zod will recover in time to block 7 frame reversals. The laser itself is also around +4 it seems. Now if the opponent is someone like flash with a 6f close reversal, you can opt to do d12 xx mid laser for a very similar set up, but flying uppercut will now whiff. You get a little less damage in general than a 123 xx ender, but the set ups are a lot more solid

 

[Briggs8417]

I wouldn't say this place is depressing >.<. M2dave used the word "mediocre," but everyone took it to mean "absolutely shitty." He's definitely not a bad character, but so far his tools don't seem to be that threatening to characters like aquaman, Nightwing, deathstroke, and I'm sure at least a few others. I think he's a competent character too, but I also think lobo is a competent character and he should get some buffs too.

It may be premature, but I sometimes think that NRS is only listening to the people that cry the loudest. Hence mostly nerfs. I'd rather have everybody be super saiyan.

Buuuut, on a more gameplay oriented note, laser set ups are too good. So you know how d12 causes a hard knockdown on airborne opponents? Well so does our plain d1. This leads into some nasty enders with charge laser.

So basically, if you end a juggle with d1 xx close laser (hold), you can get a meaty laser that will catch the opponent doing anything but wake up. Here's what gets really fun. If you time the set up well, Zod will recover in time to block 7 frame reversals. The laser itself is also around +4 it seems. Now if the opponent is someone like flash with a 6f close reversal, you can opt to do d12 xx mid laser for a very similar set up, but flying uppercut will now whiff. You get a little less damage in general than a 123 xx ender, but the set ups are a lot more solid

I do think it's too early, and that we haven't really discovered enough about the character or how to play him yet. Characters have bad MU's that's just the way it is man, unless you're Batman, and Zod's all seem pretty managable to say the least. Like I said, get them to play your game and you will have an easier time. For now we might just have to accept that NW and Aquaman can handle us pretty well and try and find ways to deal with it. Bad matchups are going to happen man, they will be there. Some characters are just designed to take out others, it's not always done this way on purpose, but it's something that is a result from trying to create a variety of characters. I do need to mess around with laser setups more for when I get knockdowns, I think they could significantly help my game.

 

[Briggs8417]

No, it isn't the case, because Wraith will knock them down when it's down, and you can just dash up from anywhere on the screen and b3 for full combo.

If they just crouch block you, activate trait and have fun.

I think I miscommunicated a bit. If Aquaman gets hit by wraith grab and you try to follow up with anything that doesn't pop him up for juggle it won't combo if Aquaman activates his trait. That's what we were getting at lol.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I think I miscommunicated a bit. If Aquaman gets hit by wraith grab and you try to follow up with anything that doesn't pop him up for juggle it won't combo if Aquaman activates his trait. That's what we were getting at lol.

To be fair, after anything Wraith does, Ican't see myself doing anything but b3 or charged Laser

 

[Briggs8417]

To be fair, after anything Wraith does, Ican't see myself doing anything but b3 or charged Laser

Exactly lol. I don't think b3 counts though because I'm pretty sure waterboy can block those in trait lol. Uppercuts would work too though I think.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Exactly lol. I don't think b3 counts though because I'm pretty sure waterboy can block those in trait lol. Uppercuts would work too though I think.

Yeah, but that wouldn't matter. Wraith Grab has a special animation that ends in shoving Aquaman to the ground, so get close and b3 on the 5th hit(so it lands on the 7th). Aquaman should be in the air during the b3

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Like I said, get them to play your game and you will have an easier time.

The word you are looking for is control. He is a control character. He wins by controlling your opponent's options and patterns.

 

[Briggs8417]

Yeah, but that wouldn't matter. Wraith Grab has a special animation that ends in shoving Aquaman to the ground, so get close and b3 on the 5th hit(so it lands on the 7th). Aquaman should be in the air during the b3

OOOOH OK I see what you're saying! I was definitely misunderstanding! Good shit man good shit lol.

 

[Swoops]

I do think it's too early, and that we haven't really discovered enough about the character or how to play him yet. Characters have bad MU's that's just the way it is man, unless you're Batman, and Zod's all seem pretty managable to say the least. Like I said, get them to play your game and you will have an easier time. For now we might just have to accept that NW and Aquaman can handle us pretty well and try and find ways to deal with it. Bad matchups are going to happen man, they will be there. Some characters are just designed to take out others, it's not always done this way on purpose, but it's something that is a result from trying to create a variety of characters. I do need to mess around with laser setups more for when I get knockdowns, I think they could significantly help my game.

People let the concept of "bad match ups" slide way too easily. Shit like 7-3 and 8-2 match ups are just a sign of incomplete balancing. It's a cop out. It reminds me of smash bros when those match ups occur. Which is fine when the developer doesn't try to cater to the competitive scene like NRS does. Bad MUs happen, not saying its completely avoidable, but it's tough not to complain to the developer when they've set a precedent for patching so frequently.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not too much of a whiner to think tough match ups should occur, I just think there's a difference between having to think for a while to get creative solutions to match ups, and those solutions being unrealistic to implement and not worth the effort. Although deep down I do wish NRS would let their game settle for a little while to let people work that all out. It's too bad that doesn't seem likely though >.<.

My main problem though was that Zod IS a control character, but he's a control character that loses control way too easily. Characters like sinestro get you locked into one fireball and it becomes an uphill battle for the opponent to get out safely. For Zod, even once you gain control, it's an uphill battle to keep that control. One mistimed rifle and you have the opponent have the screen to work with.

But there's still lots of work to be done. Maybe I'll start to feel it after I get IAZC and IAFBs down.

 

[Briggs8417]

People let the concept of "bad match ups" slide way too easily. Shit like 7-3 and 8-2 match ups are just a sign of incomplete balancing. It's a cop out. It reminds me of smash bros when those match ups occur. Which is fine when the developer doesn't try to cater to the competitive scene like NRS does. Bad MUs happen, not saying its completely avoidable, but it's tough not to complain to the developer when they've set a precedent for patching so frequently.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not too much of a whiner to think tough match ups should occur, I just think there's a difference between having to think for a while to get creative solutions to match ups, and those solutions being unrealistic to implement and not worth the effort. Although deep down I do wish NRS would let their game settle for a little while to let people work that all out. It's too bad that doesn't seem likely though >.<.

My main problem though was that Zod IS a control character, but he's a control character that loses control way too easily. Characters like sinestro get you locked into one fireball and it becomes an uphill battle for the opponent to get out safely. For Zod, even once you gain control, it's an uphill battle to keep that control. One mistimed rifle and you have the opponent have the screen to work with.

But there's still lots of work to be done. Maybe I'll start to feel it after I get IAZC and IAFBs down.

I can't really think of any 2d fighters that don't have MU's like that. AE doesn't really but it only took 5 years of patching. This game is two months old, let them do their work to make it what it needs to be man. That's all I'll say on that. Not to mention I don't see many 7-3's or 8-2's in this game, especially with Zod. I haven't seen anything that could be worse than 6-4 with him. I won't talk anymore on that though because MU's are a matter of perspective lol.

Zoning isn't his only way to control the screen though. He has the tools to deal with people who start to break his zoning, and the trick is to simply understand when to use all of them. The reason we can't keep people out as well as other characters is because we have more tools than most of them and it's our job to apply them correctly. Let's add it all up:

A 3 frame parry
3 different speeds of forceballs
4 different ranges of low lasers
His side arm
ground and air zod dash
The bf3 phantom push thingy
Trait

Those are a lot of tools that can be used in a lot of different ways. It's going to take more than a week to get the hang of it. I'm not saying in the end he won't be beatable, but honestly he is still really good now even understanding the little that we do. I just think we are going about this a little too quickly. I for one will be focusing on Zod for a while in an attempt to replicate Reptile and main him.