What's new

Match-up Discussion Wonder Woman Match-Up Discussion

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Here's a flow chart for you. Is she in dash distance? Yes- b12 No- FTD
Was the b12 blocked? Yes - Trident rush No- 40-50% combo
Do you feel like you're going to get hit? Yes- Activate trait and hold back No- See above. I mean in reality it's a little more complicated but you get the idea...
Lol "a little more complicated"... I would love to see when Aquaderp or SM have to work for their damage, range and speed
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
watch one fight Sinestro, raven or Zod. (SM)
That's universal for anyone that can't teleport, doesnt have a full screen tracking special, or full screen projectile...and even so, its not like his recovery is a risk whatsoever, let alone his dashes both grounded and in air
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
That's universal for anyone that can't teleport, doesnt have a full screen tracking special, or full screen projectile...and even so, its not like his recovery is a risk whatsoever, let alone his dashes both grounded and in air
Just because it's universal, doesn't mean it doesn't fulfill the criteria you previously mentioned. Those matches are difficult for him, I'd say Raven the most annoying of the three. Just my $.02
 
Last edited:

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Just because it's universal, doesn't mean it doesn't fulfill the criteria you previously mentioned. Those matches are quite difficult for him, especially Raven.
Lol so I bet you can only imagine what it's like for a character like Harley that has to rely solely on reads and mistakes since she can't bombard her way through, let alone have any normal that can compensate for the lack of it up close too
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Lol so I bet you can only imagine what it's like for a character like Harley that has to rely solely on reads and mistakes since she can't bombard her way through, let alone have any normal that can compensate for the lack of it up close too
I can. I've mained a low tier before, I'm not unreasonable here. I didn't say that the above 3 10-0'd my char. F2 certainly helps when getting in. Being plus on your strings helps as well. He struggles against the yellow boogers and trait much like your char does. He doesn't bombard his way against them well at all and can't play that way against them.
 
Last edited:

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
I'm strongly considering changing Frost to 7-3. Wake-up slide doesn't matter much when WoWo's neutral game is so much better and less risky than KF's. Her whole game revolves around throwing out random slides and air-to-airs so she's basically just rolling dice or hoping you do something stupid. Parry is the only thing you really have to worry about, and she's risking just as much on that parry as you are by pressuring her. Wonder Woman having a life lead is also far more daunting than Frost having one. She doesn't have problems walking KF down and Frost has problems anti-airing j3 with d2. If she tries to MB f3 then a divepunch cancel will beat that and cause her to waste a meter, so it's not a very appealing option. Meanwhile if WoWo has the life lead, there's no good reason for KF to land a hit at all. If Frost does then she can mix you up, but it's not so easy getting that hit in the first place. Even if it's not 7-3 normally, it definitely is on stages like Watchtower, Arkham, etc.

Edit: I just went ahead and changed it to 7-3. If anyone disagrees, feel free to speak up.
 
Last edited:

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
im having a hard time against anyone that can keep me grounded. mostly batman and green lantern. how should i approach these assholes?
 

The Highlander

There can be only one
im having a hard time against anyone that can keep me grounded. mostly batman and green lantern. how should i approach these assholes?
Basically, and I know you're gonna hate this, you just have to be really patient... Don't let them frustrate you, that's how they will open you up. Learn the gaps in both of their strings and practice d1 spinning them out of it. Block and avoid projectiles but never get reckless with the jumping. You can IADM the air rocket from GL. I wouldn't recommend using it against batman especially if he has bats out. Try to bait him into using his bats and d3 under, watch KDZ vs Arma for some ins an outs if you are really struggling. You'll see that Arma can't really keep KDZ out for long and then all WW needs is one knockdown. If you're really worried about him escaping knockdown pressure via wake-up and backdash then use Drizzle's safe jump. For GL, once you have a sizable life lead you can shield stance it out, otherwise just block that b1 and let his pressure end and start your own.
 

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
So what are everyone's thoughts on Grundy? I'm starting to believe it's more of a 6-4 than a 5-5. b1 has such little recovery that it's difficult for him to WCC through and punish, and from further ranges lasso grab and b2 can keep him in check as long as you're not too predictable with them. You can even throw the occasional ground/air tiara to annoy him even more. What you basically want to do is run away constantly. Backdash, jump around, airdash, demigoddess and divepunch give you so many mobility options that Grundy can't really keep up unless he makes really good reads. You'll always have meter to armor through his ticks into specials as well, so he has to be careful of that. If you try to pressure him at all you'll probably lose, though.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
So what are everyone's thoughts on Grundy? I'm starting to believe it's more of a 6-4 than a 5-5. b1 has such little recovery that it's difficult for him to WCC through and punish, and from further ranges lasso grab and b2 can keep him in check as long as you're not too predictable with them. You can even throw the occasional ground/air tiara to annoy him even more. What you basically want to do is run away constantly. Backdash, jump around, airdash, demigoddess and divepunch give you so many mobility options that Grundy can't really keep up unless he makes really good reads. You'll always have meter to armor through his ticks into specials as well, so he has to be careful of that. If you try to pressure him at all you'll probably lose, though.
You thought it was 5-5?
 

Filipino Man

Retirement my ass
I think Grundy-WoWo is hard tbh. once you're knocked down, you're staying down because of 1 hit wakeups and easy reads.
 

astronout

see you at the top.
I'm strongly considering changing Frost to 7-3. Wake-up slide doesn't matter much when WoWo's neutral game is so much better and less risky than KF's. Her whole game revolves around throwing out random slides and air-to-airs so she's basically just rolling dice or hoping you do something stupid. Parry is the only thing you really have to worry about, and she's risking just as much on that parry as you are by pressuring her. Wonder Woman having a life lead is also far more daunting than Frost having one. She doesn't have problems walking KF down and Frost has problems anti-airing j3 with d2. If she tries to MB f3 then a divepunch cancel will beat that and cause her to waste a meter, so it's not a very appealing option. Meanwhile if WoWo has the life lead, there's no good reason for KF to land a hit at all. If Frost does then she can mix you up, but it's not so easy getting that hit in the first place. Even if it's not 7-3 normally, it definitely is on stages like Watchtower, Arkham, etc.

Edit: I just went ahead and changed it to 7-3. If anyone disagrees, feel free to speak up.
6-4 at the absolute worst. if you think frost's whole game revolves around random sliding than you obviously haven't played this matchup at the highest level. interactables and wonder woman's air game are what for sure give frost trouble there's no debating that.
 

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
I think Grundy-WoWo is hard tbh. once you're knocked down, you're staying down because of 1 hit wakeups and easy reads.
Yeah, his oki is good vs her and sometimes you just have to guess. WC doesn't do much damage and he still has to work around you armoring through his cancels into grab, swamp hands etc. If you just refuse to play the game though, it seems like his chances to actually knock you down are few and far between.

Edit: I'm not against it being 5-5, but that's just how it feels to me.
 
Last edited:

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
I would appreciate it if someone/some people can give me some advice on the Killer Frost matchup? I only fight the character once in a blue moon so sometimes it is a struggle, so any help would be great :)
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I would appreciate it if someone/some people can give me some advice on the Killer Frost matchup? I only fight the character once in a blue moon so sometimes it is a struggle, so any help would be great :)
Be careful with your pressure: b2, d1, 3*3 are all parriable and full combo punishable. You can also parry her highs, mids and overheads of course but seeing as how she has more combo-starting lows it's risky so you better hope you make the right read... You can air dash a lot, and obviously jump back for punishes on a read slide. Just be patient around daggers, take your free dash when you block iceberg. I don't think I've played this much myself either but this is what I can remember :)
 

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
I would appreciate it if someone/some people can give me some advice on the Killer Frost matchup? I only fight the character once in a blue moon so sometimes it is a struggle, so any help would be great :)
As Youphemism said, be aware that she does have a parry, so bait it out and punish if you think it's coming. Mixing up your aerial movement with jumps, airdashes and divepunches makes it difficult for her to deal with your air game. Walk in on KF when she's throwing daggers with the occasional jump. Keep in mind that she cannot anti-air well-spaced j3s so that's another way in. Once you're at mid-range her options are pretty risky. Since she only has slide she can't really play traditional footsies with you. You can anti-air her jumps easily with d2, react to her dash and punish with d12 and punish slide on a read with jump back 3. If you happen to just block a slide d3 will trade with her d1 and still give you a knockdown, beat parry and go under MB f3, allowing you a full combo punish with b113. To beat this the Frost player has to do a delayed MB f3. If they don't then you can d3 every time without any real consequence. If they do then you can delay your d3 on a read and get a combo. You can get a big punish on any f3 whiffs as the recovery is horrendous. So basically you can walk KF down and force her to commit to things without much risk on your part. Also if Frost starts backdashing after slide, you can read and punish with b113.

If she's not doing anything then she's letting you in for free, where your normals are better and you can make her block a b1 to start the frame traps. After a hard knockdown, you can safe jump her slide by dashing forward once and doing a j3. Slide whiffs and grants you a punish with 23, 23, b3, j3, b113~lasso. I would suggest not going for oki most of the time because of wake-up slide. Once you get a good life lead and move into b2 range you don't really have to do much as all of her approach options carry heavy risks, as mentioned earlier. Also some Frost players like to do gimmicky resets involving cross-up j3. Keep in mind that if you block it there is no guaranteed 50/50 so you can poke out of whatever she does unless it's a d1/stand 1. In general you can just lame her out when you're ahead and Frost has to make hard reads to stop you.
 
Last edited:

Billy Dha Kid

Day 1 phenomenal grab immune
Yeah, his oki is good vs her and sometimes you just have to guess. WC doesn't do much damage and he still has to work around you armoring through his cancels into grab, swamp hands etc. If you just refuse to play the game though, it seems like his chances to actually knock you down are few and far between.

Edit: I'm not against it being 5-5, but that's just how it feels to me.
Why try pressuring Grundy with the risk of him armoring through your frame gaps
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Why try pressuring Grundy with the risk of him armoring through your frame gaps
If you vs a WoWo on stream at TFC I want to see you armour through 33 so I can blow up everyone that doesn't know about it on stream. Also did you reg with my clan/team/sponsor? :DOGE
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Why try pressuring Grundy with the risk of him armoring through your frame gaps
that is what he is saying

anytime i saw Grundy as WW... i just jumped
If you WCC at me i would j3~divebomb because it would typically cross up and then all the sudden WC wiffs and you stand there with your pants on the ground.

His d2 also doesn't do very well against her j3... because if they trade you're KD'd.