Match-up Discussion Wonder Woman Match-Up Discussion

[Billy Dha Kid]

that is what he is saying

anytime i saw Grundy as WW... i just jumped
If you WCC at me i would j3~divebomb because it would typically cross up and then all the sudden WC wiffs and you stand there with your pants on the ground.

His d2 also doesn't do very well against her j3... because if they trade you're KD'd.

Lmao that pants thing made me die

 

[Akromaniac27]

I would appreciate it if someone/some people can give me some advice on the Killer Frost matchup? I only fight the character once in a blue moon so sometimes it is a struggle, so any help would be great

Pretty much a lot of what @Drizzle said.
You can literally jump at her all day and she has to take it. Ji3~amazonian smash, or ji3, 33 mixup gives her hell. Also after any lasso grab and you dash up twice, you can jump back, no air dashing needed, and you will avoid everything she wakes ups with. If she wakes up with slide, you WILL be able to see it, and can input ji1 and it will hit her on the way down. I believe (I'm in my bed....) that you can even just do a jump back with a slightly delayed jb1 and still be safe from everything else regardless. One thing though, d3 post slide does get beaten out by her MBb3, not sure if anyone even bothered to look into this. Yeah its not a mixup on her end per say, but it is still an option she has to beat out WW's "go to" option.

Practice doing optimum combos on her and with good corner carry. There's absolutely no reason you should ever do either b113/23/33/lasso spin launcher followed by 23, and not do a b3 unless it would lead to a transition. Air dash around her when she starts respecting your frame traps and in general, read her parries. Countless, if not all KF players I played online(yes online....) will go for a parry after 33. 33 them again until they stop and then you can start doing just about whatever you want lol

 

[Youphemism]

Ji3~amazonian smash, or ji3, 33 mixup gives her hell.

One thing though, d3 post slide does get beaten out by her MBb3, not sure if anyone even bothered to look into this.

Air dash around her when she starts respecting your frame traps and in general, read her parries. Countless, if not all KF players I played online(yes online....) will go for a parry after 33. 33 them again until they stop and then you can start doing just about whatever you want lol

About points 1 and 3, be careful with that advice because Killer Frost can parry in between 33 for a full combo punish.

Good point, it's just that none of them seem to do that so we didn't think about that.

"Read her parries" isn't really good advice, you can't force yourself to read a move. It's just part of the yomi.

In general, I think the 33 string has the most mindgames around it in this matchup. Killer Frost can parry in between WoWos 33, which you can counter by just doing one 3 to bait the parry then punishing the whiffed parry with 33 into full combo. Or if you do the full 33 on block KF could throw out parry in anticipation of b1, d1, b2 or any other mid/overhead option. Again you can bait the parry and do another 33. So many mindgames revolving around that one string it's unbelieveable... But tbh if the Killer Frost isn't even attempting the parry in between 33 I wouldn't consider them the most knowledgeable in the matchup.

 

[Akromaniac27]

About points 1 and 3, be careful with that advice because Killer Frost can parry in between 33 for a full combo punish.

Good point, it's just that none of them seem to do that so we didn't think about that.

"Read her parries" isn't really good advice, you can't force yourself to read a move. It's just part of the yomi.

In general, I think the 33 string has the most mindgames around it in this matchup. Killer Frost can parry in between WoWos 33, which you can counter by just doing one 3 to bait the parry then punishing the whiffed parry with 33 into full combo. Or if you do the full 33 on block KF could throw out parry in anticipation of b1, d1, b2 or any other mid/overhead option. Again you can bait the parry and do another 33. So many mindgames revolving around that one string it's unbelieveable... But tbh if the Killer Frost isn't even attempting the parry in between 33 I wouldn't consider them the most knowledgeable in the matchup.

Yeah, but its a pain to even get in. It sucks for them or any parry really, because its such a small window, and with WW crossing you up and then going straight to a low, it fucks with the movement. Its much easier for someone like HG because she has invincibility (facepalm) whenever she uses wing evade whereas with the parries, you NEED to do it on the very frame of its opening or else you miss it.

And KF players are notorious for continually walking back....abuse your overheads then whip out those lows, or do the reverse lol. She's just so linear...the more I think about it, the more it bothers me XD

 

[Drizzle]

Yeah, MB b3 will beat d3 post-slide, but if you walk back even a little it'll whiff and you get a combo. I haven't tested but taking a small step back and doing d3 would probably beat slide, parry, MB f3 (normal and delayed) and make MB b3 whiff. I don't think KF can even walk back fast enough to make the d3 whiff.

Edit: I just tried it and it does work on all the options I listed. Delaying your d3 like this does mean she can neutral jump but you can safely backdash all of her air normals.

 

[Youphemism]

Yeah, but its a pain to even get in. It sucks for them or any parry really, because its such a small window, and with WW crossing you up and then going straight to a low, it fucks with the movement. Its much easier for someone like HG because she has invincibility (facepalm) whenever she uses wing evade whereas with the parries, you NEED to do it on the very frame of its opening or else you miss it.

And KF players are notorious for continually walking back....abuse your overheads then whip out those lows, or do the reverse lol. She's just so linear...the more I think about it, the more it bothers me XD

You just need to get used to the timing for parry, it's really not that hard, at least for the window in 33.

Yeah a lot of this mu ends up being her throwing out daggers and icebergs until you get in but once you're in it shouldn't be too bad.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Not gonna lie
I've NEVER seen anyone parry 3,3 during a match (this is not to say it hasn't been done)

I don't even know if that talking point is worth it. You almost have to be looking for the 3,3 in able to even anticipate the parry. Which basically leaves you open to everything else in WW's arsenal.

I know it is possible... but it is one of those things in THIS game where i'm skeptical. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Hype factor 3,000.

As for the Grundy thing.

When I played the MU AS Grundy... I did a lot of just not pushing buttons. Or I did a lot of 3/4 screen foot stomps to fake the swamp hands. I honestly had to figure out some type of pattern in WW's jumping and approach.
MB Swamp Hands on ALL of her air attacks typically work. Someone would have to test it... because I never had anyone attempt to do j3~smash. I'd garner it would depend on the height whether or not the Swamp Hands would actually hit.

WW is absolutely free on her back.
I'm pretty sure she was a character I used Power Trait with because of how much more damage I could garner off of the MBWC into corpse hop.

That was how i approached it. Dunno if it'll help, or bring up any new talking points.

 

[Youphemism]

Not gonna lie
I've NEVER seen anyone parry 3,3 during a match (this is not to say it hasn't been done)

I don't even know if that talking point is worth it. You almost have to be looking for the 3,3 in able to even anticipate the parry. Which basically leaves you open to everything else in WW's arsenal.

I know it is possible... but it is one of those things in THIS game where i'm skeptical. I'd love to be proven wrong though. Hype factor 3,000.

As for the Grundy thing.

When I played the MU AS Grundy... I did a lot of just not pushing buttons. Or I did a lot of 3/4 screen foot stomps to fake the swamp hands. I honestly had to figure out some type of pattern in WW's jumping and approach.
MB Swamp Hands on ALL of her air attacks typically work. Someone would have to test it... because I never had anyone attempt to do j3~smash. I'd garner it would depend on the height whether or not the Swamp Hands would actually hit.

WW is absolutely free on her back.
I'm pretty sure she was a character I used Power Trait with because of how much more damage I could garner off of the MBWC into corpse hop.

That was how i approached it. Dunno if it'll help, or bring up any new talking points.

That's because there's no competitive Killer Frosts in tournament any more and no Wonder Woman mirrors. Not sure if Batman and Zod's parries are fast enough but again it's rarely played in tournament which is why you don't see it so much. And it's pretty easy, if you're blocking low to block the 33 it's not too hard to just block low then parry.

Here's PPJ Wing Evading through the gap in 33. Skip to about 1:02:54

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

That's because there's no competitive Killer Frosts in tournament any more and no Wonder Woman mirrors. Not sure if Batman and Zod's parries are fast enough but again it's rarely played in tournament which is why you don't see it so much. And it's pretty easy, if you're blocking low to block the 33 it's not too hard to just block low then parry.

Here's PPJ Wing Evading through the gap in 33. Skip to about 1:02:54

right but wing evade is not a parry

he had no risk in doing Wing Evade... because no matter what he was going to be safe.

But I understand your point. Great find. Maybe it is a thing you can do on reaction.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Many thanks for the responses, gained a whole lot of knowledge which should help me do better in the matchup .

@NRF CharlieMurphy While its true I have never seen 33 been parried in tournament it has happened to me online a few times. Not sure if they are all anticipated or just on reaction as online is well....online.

 

[Drizzle]

One-frame parries (Killer Frost, Batman) and supers will interrupt the second hit of 33.

 

[Youphemism]

Zod can't parry 33 eh? 5-5 confirmed

 

[GuamoKun]

I was playing against this one WoWo player online and stuff who is one of those PSN ones that are good idk I can't remember his name and stuff but like....


I couldn't get into a groove with Zatanna so how do you guys feel about that MU?

but then again I tend to guess wrong a lot after setups so yeah

 

[Drizzle]

I was playing against this one WoWo player online and stuff who is one of those PSN ones that are good idk I can't remember his name and stuff but like....


I couldn't get into a groove with Zatanna so how do you guys feel about that MU?

but then again I tend to guess wrong a lot after setups so yeah

If it was last week then it was probably me. I think it's a rough match-up for Zat since you can parry her rings and she has to respect a demigoddess after. From absolute full-screen she can bait parries by arcing rings upward and punishing the whiffed parry with trance, but around mid-screen WoWo can just parry all of them without risk. Zatanna can't punish demigoddess at all, even if it's sloppy and she doesn't really have anything to check WoWo with either. Her normals are no good and neither is her movement aside from teleport, which you can deal with by jumping back or using demigoddess. Trait isn't much of an issue either because WoWo can just use air tiara to hit her out of it. Zat has good wake-ups but you can punish all of them on a read, and there's no risk in being wrong. Even if she gets out successfully she's back to neutral where she doesn't really win from anywhere on the screen. It seems pretty difficult to me.

 

[GuamoKun]

If it was last week then it was probably me. I think it's a rough match-up for Zat since you can parry her rings and she has to respect a demigoddess after. From absolute full-screen she can bait parries by arcing rings upward and punishing the whiffed parry with trance, but around mid-screen WoWo can just parry all of them without risk. Zatanna can't punish demigoddess at all, even if it's sloppy and she doesn't really have anything to check WoWo with either. Her normals are no good and neither is her movement aside from teleport, which you can deal with by jumping back or using demigoddess. Trait isn't much of an issue either because WoWo can just use air tiara to hit her out of it. Zat has good wake-ups but you can punish all of them on a read, and there's no risk in being wrong. Even if she gets out successfully she's back to neutral where she doesn't really win from anywhere on the screen. It seems pretty difficult to me.

You made me switch to raven and that was slightly easier but like maaaaan that matchup isn't fun. Let's play more because I want to grind up muh skills

 

[Drizzle]

@GuamoKun

Sure, I sent you a friend request.

 

[Axel_Redd]

can someone plz help me with the WW mu's, their just not as straightforward as i thought.

 

[Youphemism]

can someone plz help me with the WW mu's, their just not as straightforward as i thought.

Against who?

 

[Axel_Redd]

Against who?

the joker for 1, he's just plain not as free as i thought. how do i counter his shenanigans when i have to get close to him to do anything? Also Lex, how do u fight him and avoid his basic traps. How do you escape his oki artillary strike?

 

[Youphemism]

the joker for 1, he's just plain not as free as i thought. how do i counter his shenanigans when i have to get close to him to do anything? Also Lex, how do u fight him and avoid his basic traps. How do you escape his oki artillary strike?

I was caught out a bit when I first played a decent Joker but it's really not as hard as you'd think. Just walk him down if he starts with gun shenanigans and block accordingly. IADG when you can too, he can't do much about it. Don't get too wakeup happy, it's easy for Joker to do setups to avoid it and full combo you. Interrupt blockstrings cancelled into specials with holes in them like most of Joker's strings into low canister/crowbar but be wary of strings cancelled into flower. Uppercut his jump normals as well, WoWo has a great d2. TECH ROLL ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING BY THE WAY, Joker is free to tech roll lol.

Lex is a bit tougher but you just need to hold your ground. Again don't get too wakeup happy as trait will just absorb it, he'll do a combo and end it and get trait back. Just block on wakeup. From mid range MB tiara if he tries to throw something out to break his shield and stop him from getting a setup/combo and allow you to get in. Don't use IADG too much, ESPECIALLY if he has trait up, you are just asking to get comboed. D12 is very useful for breaking his armour but be careful of course.
As for oki artillery strike you just need to deal with it sometimes. Maybe you could backdash it but I doubt it. Tech roll as much as you can.

 

[Axel_Redd]

I was caught out a bit when I first played a decent Joker but it's really not as hard as you'd think. Just walk him down if he starts with gun shenanigans and block accordingly. IADG when you can too, he can't do much about it. Don't get too wakeup happy, it's easy for Joker to do setups to avoid it and full combo you. Interrupt blockstrings cancelled into specials with holes in them like most of Joker's strings into low canister/crowbar but be wary of strings cancelled into flower. Uppercut his jump normals as well, WoWo has a great d2. TECH ROLL ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING BY THE WAY, Joker is free to tech roll lol.

Lex is a bit tougher but you just need to hold your ground. Again don't get too wakeup happy as trait will just absorb it, he'll do a combo and end it and get trait back. Just block on wakeup. From mid range MB tiara if he tries to throw something out to break his shield and stop him from getting a setup/combo and allow you to get in. Don't use IADG too much, ESPECIALLY if he has trait up, you are just asking to get comboed. D12 is very useful for breaking his armour but be careful of course.
As for oki artillery strike you just need to deal with it sometimes. Maybe you could backdash it but I doubt it. Tech roll as much as you can.

k, is Iadg the overhead smash, or is that the one where she shoots across the screen? Also, is b1 23 on block an effective frame trap?

 

[Youphemism]

k, is Iadg the overhead smash, or is that the one where she shoots across the screen? Also, is b1 23 on block an effective frame trap?

Iadg is instant-air demigoddess, df3. The one where she shoots across the screen. B1 into 23 has a 5 frame gap since b1 is +4 and 2 startup is 9 frames so yeah I'd say it could be good BUT 23 is -9 on block so be careful.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Iadg is instant-air demigoddess, df3. The one where she shoots across the screen. B1 into 23 has a 5 frame gap since b1 is +4 and 2 startup is 9 frames so yeah I'd say it could be good BUT 23 is -9 on block so be careful.

not everyone can punish it tho since it pushes back a bit.

 

[Youphemism]

not everyone can punish it tho since it pushes back a bit.

Actually you'd be surprised. Go into practice and you'll see the pushback doesn't matter a lot of the time.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Actually you'd be surprised. Go into practice and you'll see the pushback doesn't matter a lot of the time.

or i could cancel into lasso grab.