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General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

HuttonMD

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
What do you all use as your punishing move? Depending on distance I'll use f22 but just wanna know if you all are using 11or 22 when your up close. They are only a frame difference in startup but I'm just curious in which works better for you all or if you use something completely different
 
RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
_CHINOCUDEIRO_ said:
Sorry,guys: I´m new with Shinnok,please help me
Whats are the main differences between Necromancer and done shaper? I´m testing it and I think bone shaper is better BY FAR. What are the necromancer pros?
Thank you
Click to expand...
Necromancer

PROS: Able to play more of a keep away game, F2,2,4 is an extremely solid footsie string with great reach. Amulet can eat up projectiles and serves as a projectile like cone that is safe if blocked high, and EX Amulet is guaranteed safe off of 3,1,2. Flick is a great tool in neutral and to space/punish whiffed or blocked strings and pokes as well as make strings safer or harder to punish. EX Flick makes you plus on block. Summoned Fiend comes out relatively fast and will grab the opponent if a button is pressed and can be EXed to launch the opponent (more useful in the corner).

Cons: Judgement Fist as a unblockable special really sucks, 9% damage and takes forever to come out so you need to do it off of a HKD (Hard Knockdown), I have been full screen punished for it. EX is even worse and is his worst move overall throughout the variations IMO. Amulet is underwhelming and just not that useful.

Bone Shaper:

PROS: Scepter special is a low and does allow for great mixup opportunities. Dark Beam which replaces the amulet is a fullscreen projectile. F2,2,4 gets replaced by F2,2, 1+3 which acts as a standing reset. Gains the b3,1,d2,u2 and f3,1,d2,u2 strings. b3,1,d2 is a low that goes into an overhead and this can mix the opponent up. Scepter quake is a better unblockable. Does way more damage than Necromancer.

CONS: F2,2 has an odd hitbox when it comes to midair juggles. Dark beam can take forever to recover and one of the worst projectiles. Bone Shaper loses Necromancer's ability to make moves safe with flick so you have to be way more aware of what you're pressing.

If I am missing something or need corrections feel free.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
RM_NINfan101 said:
Necromancer

PROS: Able to play more of a keep away game, EX Flick makes you plus on block. Summoned Fiend comes out relatively fast and will grab the opponent if a button is pressed and can be EXed to launch the opponent (more useful in the corner).

Cons: Judgement Fist as a unblockable special really sucks, 9% damage and takes forever to come out so you need to do it off of a HKD (Hard Knockdown), I have been full screen punished for it. EX is even worse and is his worst move overall throughout the variations IMO.

Bone Shaper:

PROS: Scepter special is a low and does allow for great mixup opportunities. Dark Beam which replaces the amulet is a fullscreen projectile. F2,2,4 gets replaced by F2,2, 1+3 which acts as a standing reset. Gains the b3,1,d2,u2 and f3,1,d2,u2 strings. b3,1,d2 is a low that goes into an overhead and this can mix the opponent up. Scepter quake is a better unblockable. Does way more damage than Necromancer.

CONS: Dark beam can take forever to recover and one of the worst projectiles. Bone Shaper loses Necromancer's ability to make moves safe with flick so you have to be way more aware of what you're pressing.

If I am missing something or need corrections feel free.
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Well half of your Necro pros aren't variation specific at all so I fixed your list for you in both variations in both sections lol.
 
Ojpaxton

Ojpaxton

Noob
So something about the f2 2 1+3 if the last hit misses(In juggle) sometimes shinnok will start to seizure, I don't think it stuns u or anything so not a huge problem just wondering if anyone has noticed this. It might be on different maps I'm really not paying attention, I know for a fact it happened on sky temple.
 
True Grave

True Grave

Giving The Gift Of Graves
RM_NINfan101 said:
So 2,2 has no viable use outside of combo filler? I know it reaches short (In fact his reach on all non-bone shaper strings aside from F2,2,4 are really short on distance) but can it be used as a safe block string in the corner?

Also damn this character really just has rough tools to utilize. I may just start to use Impostor more just so I can actually do things on offense via the vortex and mimicry combos. I mean Necro is working but Shinnok literally requires you to play against your opponent and outplay them hard.
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You can use 2,2 in the corner after a MB Hell Spark to switch your opponent to the other side. I use it twice in my day 1 combo video here.
 
_CHINOCUDEIRO_

_CHINOCUDEIRO_

Machakabotones
Youphemism said:
Well half of your Necro pros aren't variation specific at all so I fixed your list for you in both variations in both sections lol.
Click to expand...
RM_NINfan101 said:
Necromancer

PROS: Able to play more of a keep away game, F2,2,4 is an extremely solid footsie string with great reach. Amulet can eat up projectiles and serves as a projectile like cone that is safe if blocked high, and EX Amulet is guaranteed safe off of 3,1,2. Flick is a great tool in neutral and to space/punish whiffed or blocked strings and pokes as well as make strings safer or harder to punish. EX Flick makes you plus on block. Summoned Fiend comes out relatively fast and will grab the opponent if a button is pressed and can be EXed to launch the opponent (more useful in the corner).

Cons: Judgement Fist as a unblockable special really sucks, 9% damage and takes forever to come out so you need to do it off of a HKD (Hard Knockdown), I have been full screen punished for it. EX is even worse and is his worst move overall throughout the variations IMO. Amulet is underwhelming and just not that useful.

Bone Shaper:

PROS: Scepter special is a low and does allow for great mixup opportunities. Dark Beam which replaces the amulet is a fullscreen projectile. F2,2,4 gets replaced by F2,2, 1+3 which acts as a standing reset. Gains the b3,1,d2,u2 and f3,1,d2,u2 strings. b3,1,d2 is a low that goes into an overhead and this can mix the opponent up. Scepter quake is a better unblockable. Does way more damage than Necromancer.

CONS: F2,2 has an odd hitbox when it comes to midair juggles. Dark beam can take forever to recover and one of the worst projectiles. Bone Shaper loses Necromancer's ability to make moves safe with flick so you have to be way more aware of what you're pressing.

If I am missing something or need corrections feel free.
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Thanks.

Necro I think has the best corner game and more space control. Also I´ve notice you can combo with the summoned fiend from an air to air JiP or JiK,also a full combo if has meter. So necro has decent long range,nice AA(like all variations),but also nice air control and combo game.
I love the summoned fiendEX to start combos, you have 30% aprox.pretty solid from long range pokes (the ultrafast low B3 and the gdlk range B1)
But,some questions:
1)I´m testing Necro now and from mid-long distance I dont see any difference between flick and grab, both are mid and has more or less the same frames :confused: , Am I loosing something?
2)The amulet just blocks proyectiles or gains something doing it...I mean whats the difference apart from avoid cheap dmg to just block or use amulet?
3)F2,2,4 is an universal string for all variations?

P.D:Yes, the necro unbreakable is slooow, but if you use the shouldercharge EX(for example as wake up option cause of its armor)gives you I think +60 KD and the unbreakable has 57f startup,so is nearly a 9% guaranteed from this movement
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
RM_NINfan101 said:
Necromancer

PROS: Able to play more of a keep away game, F2,2,4 is an extremely solid footsie string with great reach. Amulet can eat up projectiles and serves as a projectile like cone that is safe if blocked high, and EX Amulet is guaranteed safe off of 3,1,2. Flick is a great tool in neutral and to space/punish whiffed or blocked strings and pokes as well as make strings safer or harder to punish. EX Flick makes you plus on block. Summoned Fiend comes out relatively fast and will grab the opponent if a button is pressed and can be EXed to launch the opponent (more useful in the corner).

Cons: Judgement Fist as a unblockable special really sucks, 9% damage and takes forever to come out so you need to do it off of a HKD (Hard Knockdown), I have been full screen punished for it. EX is even worse and is his worst move overall throughout the variations IMO. Amulet is underwhelming and just not that useful.

Bone Shaper:

PROS: Scepter special is a low and does allow for great mixup opportunities. Dark Beam which replaces the amulet is a fullscreen projectile. F2,2,4 gets replaced by F2,2, 1+3 which acts as a standing reset. Gains the b3,1,d2,u2 and f3,1,d2,u2 strings. b3,1,d2 is a low that goes into an overhead and this can mix the opponent up. Scepter quake is a better unblockable. Does way more damage than Necromancer.

CONS: F2,2 has an odd hitbox when it comes to midair juggles. Dark beam can take forever to recover and one of the worst projectiles. Bone Shaper loses Necromancer's ability to make moves safe with flick so you have to be way more aware of what you're pressing.

If I am missing something or need corrections feel free.
Click to expand...

i feel like as a con to bone shaper you should mention that you lose EX amulet which is great in pressure. i saw @GGA Max using that a lot on the stream last night. also worth mentioning that a lot of strings into EX amulet aren't true block strings, which you can see by the way he got eliminated by the Ermac player (dont remember his name) so you gotta keep that in mind. regular remote beam is probably better then regular amulet but i doubt EX remote beam is better than EX amulet.
 
GGA Max

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
RM Jonnitti said:
i feel like as a con to bone shaper you should mention that you lose EX amulet which is great in pressure. i saw @GGA Max using that a lot on the stream last night. also worth mentioning that a lot of strings into EX amulet aren't true block strings, which you can see by the way he got eliminated by the Ermac player (dont remember his name) so you gotta keep that in mind. regular remote beam is probably better then regular amulet but i doubt EX remote beam is better than EX amulet.
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Yeah. I know f224 has a big gap after the 4. So that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that it's the strongest weapon in the mk universe and it doesn't break armor.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
GGA Max said:
Yeah. I know f224 has a big gap after the 4. So that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that it's the strongest weapon in the mk universe and it doesn't break armor.
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LOL you're right, it just absorbs projectiles -_-

But seriously I'm just waiting for the patch where he'll inevitably be buffed so his toolset can come together better. I know it's coming, NRS know what they're doing :)
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
GGA Max said:
Yeah. I know f224 has a big gap after the 4. So that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that it's the strongest weapon in the mk universe and it doesn't break armor.
Click to expand...
I really find the only "true" blockstring he has is 3,1,2 xx EX Amulet/Flick/EX Flick and that hurts him to a large degree. As for EX amulet not breaking armor, it does suck. Plus it only is safe if it connects, and midscreen unless all hits of 3,1,2 connect, it tends to whiff often.

As for the tech that @KHAOTIC True Grave and @Ojpaxton had posted or reposted, always appreciated.

I will say my opinions on Shinnok have highly changed within the last few days, and Mustard is currently playing Impostor Shinnok and doing well.

EDIT: lol the game has only been out for 9 days why did I say weeks...
 
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RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
_CHINOCUDEIRO_ said:
Thanks.

Necro I think has the best corner game and more space control. Also I´ve notice you can combo with the summoned fiend from an air to air JiP or JiK,also a full combo if has meter. So necro has decent long range,nice AA(like all variations),but also nice air control and combo game.
I love the summoned fiendEX to start combos, you have 30% aprox.pretty solid from long range pokes (the ultrafast low B3 and the gdlk range B1)
But,some questions:
1)I´m testing Necro now and from mid-long distance I dont see any difference between flick and grab, both are mid and has more or less the same frames :confused: , Am I loosing something?
2)The amulet just blocks proyectiles or gains something doing it...I mean whats the difference apart from avoid cheap dmg to just block or use amulet?
3)F2,2,4 is an universal string for all variations?

P.D:Yes, the necro unbreakable is slooow, but if you use the shouldercharge EX(for example as wake up option cause of its armor)gives you I think +60 KD and the unbreakable has 57f startup,so is nearly a 9% guaranteed from this movement
Click to expand...
1: Grab does not, AFAIK make you safe on block and can be interrupted. Grab is good for a hit confirm, but flick is better just because it keeps the opponent mid distance and knocks them away.
2:I find Amulet really good at absorbing things like Reptile Forceballs and acid spit, and if he tries to slide or dash in, he still gets hit. It's good to use every once in awhile.
3: No, only in Impostor and Necromancer. Bone Shaper gets F2,2, 1+3 instead.

P.D: Good tip, probably something to use for offline.
 
RM_NINfan101

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
So after seeing the video @Ojpaxton had posted, that is extremely good tech if the staff slam unblockable blows up most armored moves in Bone Shaper on a knockdown.
 
True Grave

True Grave

Giving The Gift Of Graves
Youphemism said:
Yeah I saw it back when it was posted :p why didn't you use Kung Lao or Reptile? They have faster moves. Or were you pointing out that the gaps are so big?
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I was thinking that too, but at the time I didn't have a lab partner to test his KL EX Spin and the computer wasn't doing the ex version. I didn't know about Reptile, but I'll do some testing when I get home from work.

As for the gaps they are kind of brutal, but for the most part we're safe since we get so much pushback with Hell Sparks. Still going to go through the cast and make a thread about it.
 
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