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Reptile IS top 10?

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Kabal
Kung Lao
Kenshi
Sonya
Freddy
Cyrax
Skarlet
Jax
Smoke
Johnny Cage
Kitana
Reptile <------ 12

Based in the good MUs, he's top 12. That doesn't mean he's bad. Why do you guys feel the need to quantify everything?
Why do you feel the need to be a DICK?! Also, Reptile is better overall than Kitana, Jax, Smoke, and Cage.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Reptile is better than JC, Kitana, Jax, is more viable than Smoke, and until someone proves otherwise and SHOWS me, Skarlet isn't a tier priority over anyone that's competing for top 10.
Give me facts. JC full screen is ass, but up close his pressure is top tier, not Kabal tier, but pretty high. Jax rushdown is better as well, and in corner he has more tools than reptile. Again, full screen reptile is better. Smoke can get away from pressure, all his strings are safe, his projectiles always win, his pokes are great, you can't zone him and he has a reset. Toolwise he's better than reptile. Kitana though, the only thing she has over reptile is her close up pressure.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i believe reptile is either A+ tier or maybe S. Sure he can't insta air projectile or have a six frame jab, but it doesnt change the fact that he has a ton of tools and numerous amounts of pokes. Reptile is good because he can adapt to almost any matchup.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Why do you feel the need to be a DICK?! Also, Reptile is better overall than Kitana, Jax, Smoke, and Cage.
How am I being a dick? :( why are you hurting my feelings? ;_; I do think that instead of trying to classify reptile in an ultimately pointless list we should be breaking down the mus and finding ways around them.
 
10th on the dot imo.


Yeah I never understood this either, maybe a relatively consistent punish for dash on block?
I don't like how matchups get based of stuff like that, but it seems that even in high level play reptile's dash and mileenas teleport dont get punished either consistently or it doesnt get punished hard to its fullest potential.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
Give me facts. JC full screen is ass, but up close his pressure is top tier, not Kabal tier, but pretty high. Jax rushdown is better as well, and in corner he has more tools than reptile. Again, full screen reptile is better. Smoke can get away from pressure, all his strings are safe, his projectiles always win, his pokes are great, you can't zone him and he has a reset. Toolwise he's better than reptile. Kitana though, the only thing she has over reptile is her close up pressure.
Of course. Here's the big thing- Reptile doesn't have 3-7s (or worse) MUs. He has two to perhaps four 4-6 MUs, which are all extremely winnable. JC goes 3-7 on a good day with Kabal and Kenshi, but it's more likely those MUs are 2-8 at the highest level. Reptile goes even with Kenshi, and is still extremely effective against KL with his low hitbox, dash, and space control with forceballs. Kabal is limited in his zoning by forceballs, and Reptile has a small hitbox which limits Kabal's rushdown options. Reptile is just so unsafe in the MUs, and has limited damage against KL's teleport. Still 4-6s though and KL may be a 5-5.

Jax is better in the corner than Reptile no doubt, but so is Sub Zero who is leagues behind his green pallet swap. Reptile can take up space across the screen and keep people out, while still having a move to cover a significant portion of the screen quickly to get in. Jax always has to respect dash and armored slide, and if Rep fucks it up, Jax doesn't hit hard enough for you to care. Smoke can't run from Reptile, and Reptile doesn't have Smoke's crippling match ups against the top 2 while still breaking even with Kenshi. Skarlet is all theory and no practice so she can go back to the middle school to show girls how to put in a tampon.

Kitana's edge is that she doesn't lose the Sonya MU, but she gets fucked the fuck up by Kenshi. And then Reptile beats her so he ends up edging her out. Cyrax and Freddy give everyone but the tippy top problems, and Reptile doesn't lose more than 4-6 to Freddy and may very well go even with Cyrax.

It's simple; Reptile has great footsies, decent rush down, phenomenal space control, and a sweet spot where he is untouchable, and a weird hit box. He loses to just a couple of the very top, but still stays very competitive with them, and goes even or wins with the rest of top 12, and beats everyone else besides SZ.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Give me facts. JC full screen is ass, but up close his pressure is top tier, not Kabal tier, but pretty high. Jax rushdown is better as well, and in corner he has more tools than reptile. Again, full screen reptile is better. Smoke can get away from pressure, all his strings are safe, his projectiles always win, his pokes are great, you can't zone him and he has a reset. Toolwise he's better than reptile. Kitana though, the only thing she has over reptile is her close up pressure.
As for Jax, he is limited against characters that make f4 1 whiff, and there are eleven of those if I'm not mistaken. Without f4 he has to rely on his standing to hit crouching opponents which is 15 frames and waaay easier to deal with. F4 OHS can also be used, but poked or uppercut out of by anyone, unless he honestly wants to burn that meter on a harder knockdown for 15%. In the corner he is godlike, probably the best actually. Midscreen he does ok damage off of his GP setups that can be avoided.

What is Johnny going to do from half screen or further away? Dash in and take chip the whole time, His pressure is good, but it's not like you can't poke out of his normals. Cage has to practically be in your face the whole fight, otherwise he is either going to be taking risks, or just struggling.

You covered Kitana for me.

As for Smoke, I feel like his footsies are better than Reptile's, but Reptile has rushdown, while smoke wins the zoning war. Smoke's reset isn't as easy as most other characters so if you go to use it you better be able to hit it, otherwise you will have wasted a bar. I feel like these two could maybe be even.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
I don't like how matchups get based of stuff like that, but it seems that even in high level play reptile's dash and mileenas teleport dont get punished either consistently or it doesnt get punished hard to its fullest potential.
It's Kl's mobility, he can go wherever he wants on screen and there is little Reptile can do. Reptile can punish teleport, but it isn't easy to do consistently. Reptile also can't zone, it's just a waste. Spin has to always be respected, because most of the time it beats out dash. I guess basically it just comes down to Reptile has to play Kung Lao's game. It's only slight favor, if any at all. I have been thinking lately it could be 5-5, because Reptile's oki game is shockingly more effective than I thought with the right setups.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
How am I being a dick? :( why are you hurting my feelings? ;_; I do think that instead of trying to classify reptile in an ultimately pointless list we should be breaking down the mus and finding ways around them.
No worries dude I'm playin' :p also that's what I've been doing, which I am going to test my stuff out more before I post about it, but I think that there are a couple more characters we can scratch off of the list, those being Kung Lao and Skarlet.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Let's be serious here. Reptile is most likely better than both Cage and Kitana. Enera is right, it's about the machups. Reptile has no brickwall MU like they do with Kenshi and Kabal. These MU are a more dire problem for them in tournament play than anything a Reptile loyalist has to worry about.
 
As for Jax, he is limited against characters that make f4 1 whiff, and there are eleven of those if I'm not mistaken. Without f4 he has to rely on his standing to hit crouching opponents which is 15 frames and waaay easier to deal with. F4 OHS can also be used, but poked or uppercut out of by anyone, unless he honestly wants to burn that meter on a harder knockdown for 15%. In the corner he is godlike, probably the best actually. Midscreen he does ok damage off of his GP setups that can be avoided.

What is Johnny going to do from half screen or further away? Dash in and take chip the whole time, His pressure is good, but it's not like you can't poke out of his normals. Cage has to practically be in your face the whole fight, otherwise he is either going to be taking risks, or just struggling.

You covered Kitana for me.

As for Smoke, I feel like his footsies are better than Reptile's, but Reptile has rushdown, while smoke wins the zoning war. Smoke's reset isn't as easy as most other characters so if you go to use it you better be able to hit it, otherwise you will have wasted a bar. I feel like these two could maybe be even.
Let me add that jaxs new f4 wave tech no longer leaves him open 4 full punish like f4 1 would so yea. Also jax can deal with reptile in mid screen easily with proper pokes n grabs not to mention jk air grabs
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I don't like how matchups get based of stuff like that, but it seems that even in high level play reptile's dash and mileenas teleport dont get punished either consistently or it doesnt get punished hard to its fullest potential.
I don't think either were designed to be full combo punished per se, too many players tend to assume they can just go full retard on anything they block that's -10 or more, they need to distinguish what's unsafe, and what's disadvantage. I personally only have Scorp/Mil as a 6-4 Scorp because he legit punishes her shenanigans meterless harder than anyone else and can get a vortex setup from them, and even when she guesses right she doesn't have much of an answer. Reptile on the other hand has tons of dumb shit to make Lao's #1 asset (mobility) moot, seems pretty 5-5 to me.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Let me add that jaxs new f4 wave tech no longer leaves him open 4 full punish like f4 1 would so yea. Also jax can deal with reptile in mid screen easily with proper pokes n grabs not to mention jk air grabs
I totally forgot about that new smart stuff haha, I need to work on that. Also, midscreen Reptile can handle Jax just as well as Jax can Reptile. I honestly think the MU itself is a 5-5, but as a whole Jax just has more problems.
 
Maybe hes top 11 i got him at 11 in my book. I go whit 1)Kabal 2)Kenshi 3)Sonya 4)Lao 5)Freddy 6)Smoke 7)Kitana 8)Jax 9)Cage 10)Cyrax 11)Reptile, and 7,8,9 I would all tie at number 7.
 
Kabal
Kung Lao
Kenshi
Sonya
Freddy
Cyrax
Skarlet
Jax
Smoke
Johnny Cage
Kitana
Reptile <------ 12

Based in the good MUs, he's top 12. That doesn't mean he's bad. Why do you guys feel the need to quantify everything?
you got to switch kitty whit skarlet jeje :D skarlet is not better than kitty.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Maybe hes top 11 i got him at 11 in my book. I go whit 1)Kabal 2)Kenshi 3)Sonya 4)Lao 5)Freddy 6)Smoke 7)Kitana 8)Jax 9)Cage 10)Cyrax 11)Reptile, and 7,8,9 I would all tie at number 7.
Ok 6-9 need to get behind Cyrax and Reptile and it looks right. :p Especially Cyrax, but I don't want to derail my own thread so I won't get into that haha.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Reptile has one of the most broken specials and one of the best zoning in the game. That coupled with how he is capable of consistent 35-40% damage without having to break your hand on the controller and his overall dominance over most of the lower half of the cast with only needing to fear armor in all honesty, I'll have to agree that he's brilliant. His d4 is good, and he breaks footsies by being able to dash through those d1 and d3 with his elbow held in head height while hitting everything that's on the ground, too.
Top 10 for sure. Top3 online.
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
Repilicus probably has only a few losing MU's and they are 4-6's, no worse. He's probably 7th in the game overall. I'd say he loses 4-6 to Sonya, Kung Lao, and possibly Freddy or Skarlet. The best part about him..he goes even with KABALL
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Of course. Here's the big thing- Reptile doesn't have 3-7s (or worse) MUs. He has two to perhaps four 4-6 MUs, which are all extremely winnable. JC goes 3-7 on a good day with Kabal and Kenshi, but it's more likely those MUs are 2-8 at the highest level. Reptile goes even with Kenshi, and is still extremely effective against KL with his low hitbox, dash, and space control with forceballs. Kabal is limited in his zoning by forceballs, and Reptile has a small hitbox which limits Kabal's rushdown options. Reptile is just so unsafe in the MUs, and has limited damage against KL's teleport. Still 4-6s though and KL may be a 5-5.

Jax is better in the corner than Reptile no doubt, but so is Sub Zero who is leagues behind his green pallet swap. Reptile can take up space across the screen and keep people out, while still having a move to cover a significant portion of the screen quickly to get in. Jax always has to respect dash and armored slide, and if Rep fucks it up, Jax doesn't hit hard enough for you to care. Smoke can't run from Reptile, and Reptile doesn't have Smoke's crippling match ups against the top 2 while still breaking even with Kenshi. Skarlet is all theory and no practice so she can go back to the middle school to show girls how to put in a tampon.

Kitana's edge is that she doesn't lose the Sonya MU, but she gets fucked the fuck up by Kenshi. And then Reptile beats her so he ends up edging her out. Cyrax and Freddy give everyone but the tippy top problems, and Reptile doesn't lose more than 4-6 to Freddy and may very well go even with Cyrax.

It's simple; Reptile has great footsies, decent rush down, phenomenal space control, and a sweet spot where he is untouchable, and a weird hit box. He loses to just a couple of the very top, but still stays very competitive with them, and goes even or wins with the rest of top 12, and beats everyone else besides SZ.
First of all, I agree with mostly everything (although I still think kl-reptile is 7-3 and maybe sonya too but whatever).

We're not talking specific MUs, but Jax is not a scared kitten when playing Reptile. He has a ton of armor, and if he respects you he'll fuck you up. If you respect him, he'll fuck you up too. I think I made my point with Smoke in the previous post so whatever. You need to play against a good Skarlet to see how amazing she is. She's rare, but she has some fucked up shit.

And whoever says Reptile goes even with Kabal, we have gotten so used to Kabal breaking everyone a 6-4 looks like a 5-5. LBSH
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
First of all, I agree with mostly everything (although I still think kl-reptile is 7-3 and maybe sonya too but whatever).

We're not talking specific MUs, but Jax is not a scared kitten when playing Reptile. He has a ton of armor, and if he respects you he'll fuck you up. If you respect him, he'll fuck you up too. I think I made my point with Smoke in the previous post so whatever. You need to play against a good Skarlet to see how amazing she is. She's rare, but she has some fucked up shit.

And whoever says Reptile goes even with Kabal, we have gotten so used to Kabal breaking everyone a 6-4 looks like a 5-5. LBSH
Are you telling me you think Reptile BEATS KABAL, or am I reading that completely out of whack? Also, I don't think KL is anywhere near that bad, lol. It does feel that way against the right KL's sometimes though haha.