Strategy - Sub-Zero Predator V Sub Zero - MKX's First Death

[GAV]

Nice job completely missing the point of this thread, it's not about the Pred vs SZ match up, it's about the characters tools in comparison to each other relevant to the entire game.

It's also not crying about Predator, it's complaining about SZ. Nobody is saying Predator is unbalanced, just that Sub has been really shit on and could use a leg up with his variations need just being crappier versions of a playstyle Pred can do much better.

You got way too hype at yourself for someone who didn't even comprehend what people are discussing in here.

It doesn't work when you have to say it about yourself

The Predator is totally OP. They need to nerf his damage and increase the recovery on his traps and his zoning to give the other characters a reasonable chance.

 

[Rude]

spam lazers, set up trap, if they try advancing toward you mash d4 and randomly do armored launcher

gr8 character design

So you're confirming to us all that you lose to Predator a lot?

 

[WATCHD0G]

What if Unbreakable's barrier of frost also negated the opponents Meter gain?

That'd be tight.

All these suggestions just tell me that this variation needs "something" it just feels very unfinished.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Well that's what you are saying and not what this thread is saying @GAV

 

[Rude]

The Predator is totally OP. They need to nerf his damage and increase the recovery on his traps and his zoning to give the other characters a reasonable chance.

I wasn't aware a three week old character's mu chart had been figured out.

Or that you couldn't duck his lasers.

 

[GAV]

So you're confirming to us all that you lose to Predator a lot?

Predator is so good that he makes bad players decent. He makes good players seem great and great players practically unbeatable - even when facing other great players.

 

[Rude]

Predator is so good that he makes bad players decent. He makes good players seem great and great players practically unbeatable - even when facing other great players.

Show me.
Present your case.
Give me evidence of your claim.

 

[Hades]

I understand this website is about competitive gameplay and that one character has a better toolset than another but saying a character fully negates another is a step to far.

Like slips said sub zero and predator have different moves with different properties. The ice Klone is a complete different animal to the predator trap move (no idea what it's called). First of all shatter and Klone throw allow offense that predator doesn't have from his trap turning his trap into his own projectile and that's only if he wants.

Next thing is subs ability to absorb projectiles with Klone. This is a big benefit the trap doesn't have. It allows sub zero to have the threat of ice ball for even attempting to throw out a projectile into a full combo. Not to mention ex ice ball chewing through projectiles too.

Another thing is slide. This move in itself is a much, much better wake up than predators. Predators lack of wake up is quite big thing in a game with a lot of characters with great oki. But another aspect is sub being able to low profile under projectiles or and use it to close distance on an opponent eg full auto jacqui. Predator can only really do this with armour which although is an insane tool costs resources.

So although both characters have similar game plans their move sets are completely different. Some players will find that the way subs trap works for them fits their play style better than predators and vice versa. But saying sub is useless now doesn't make sense. Pred has better normals, offense etc in hunter. Hell he can even throw the trap in the air. But he can't sit behind his trap and pose the threat of throwing the Klone or shatter which do decent chip and fairly good damage or throwing an ice ball for a full combo of he gets the right read. Just my perspective on the matter anyway.

 

[GAV]

I wasn't aware a three week old character's mu chart had been figured out.

Or that you couldn't duck his lasers.

Actually, Hunter is his best variation. HQT is second. Both are OP.

Lasers when coupled with the disc, armor, and easy to land and perform heavy damage combos are the issue.

Everyone has guns; The Predator has an armored shelter and nukes.

 

[GAV]

Show me.
Present your case.
Give me evidence of your claim.

Why? Do you have the power to nerf him?

 

[Rude]

Why? Do you have the power to nerf him?

So you've confirmed that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[buyacushun]

spam lazers, set up trap, if they try advancing toward you mash d4 and randomly do armored launcher

gr8 character design

Just wanted to let you know, Predator either has lasers or trap. Never both. d4 and armored launcher are both punishable and easily jumped. You might want to train up a bit.

 

[GAV]

So you've confirmed that you don't know what you're talking about.

How does that question confirm anything? Your response confirms that....

So, ... when's the next big tourney?

I know that The Predator is better now than Tanya ever was and I remember how things went at CEO.

 

[Rude]

How does that question confirm anything? Your response confirms that....

So, ... when's the next big tourney?

I know that The Predator is better now than Tanya ever was and I remember how things went at CEO.

Predator is better than pre-patch Tanya how.....?

 

[exflyingbooty]

I love how i state a bad flow chart i see people using and people are assuming i'm losing to this. No, i'm not. I bop brain dead predator players, tyvm.

Just wanted to let you know, Predator either has lasers or trap. Never both. d4 and armored launcher are both punishable and easily jumped. You might want to train up a bit.

I refer to that disc that stays a few seconds in the air as a trap, whoop di doo. Should i just call it disc next time? Also just because you can jump d4 doesn't mean he won't catch you with a lazer trying to jump out which makes it annoying for people trying to advance. Disc is used to catch certain things because i know it beats mileena's teleport clean. Trying to retailate with a run in armor attack with most like get predator doing his armored attack himself it a nice 30%??? Also don't stay crouching to long because he has low lazer which hit low which has no recovery what so ever.

As i said before, brilliant character design.

 

[STK]

I never understood the "unbreakable" SZ talk?? I don't see the potential at all and people still post "future" of unbreakable threads. They make me sick to my stomach. IDK why. Im all for hitting the lab with the character so to make its potential grater but let do that with GM not UB. I get that the mask is cool but enough is enough. Until the variation gets buffed the answer is just NO. lol

 

[Rude]

I love how i state a bad flow chart i see people using and people are assuming i'm losing to this. No, i'm not. I bop brain dead predator players, tyvm.



I refer to that disc that stays a few seconds in the air as a trap, whoop di doo. Should i just call it disc next time? Also just because you can jump d4 doesn't mean he won't catch you with a lazer trying to jump out which makes it annoying for people trying to advance. Disc is used to catch certain things because i know it beats mileena's teleport clean. Trying to retailate with a run in armor attack with most like get predator doing his armored attack himself it a nice 30%??? Also don't stay crouching to long because he has low lazer which hit low which has no recovery what so ever.

As i said before, brilliant character design.

Disk vanishes if he gets hit or blocks an attack.

Lasers are high and duckable.

His armor is punishable on block and you can armor break due to the slow start up if you use a quick string.

So you're complaint is that a zoning variation's zoning is....good?

Perish the thought!

Before rushing to declare a character broken, maybe we should break them down a bit more?

Do we know every Reversal option for all of his moves by the full cast?

Let's take some time before freaking the fuck out.

 

[haketh]

Hunter Predator mixup aint even that hot without meter & only within a string, I'm gonna need alot of evidence & solid reasoning to see why he invalidates Grandmaster Sub seeing how Sub has some good ass normals, good mixup, Slide, & Clone.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Unbreakable needs to recover fast from his parry whenever a projectile or anything touches his parry.

Sub already does very little damage, i liked someone else's idea of his aura combos do be umbreakable, but that is maybe stretching too much.

 

[Phosferrax]

I understand this website is about competitive gameplay and that one character has a better toolset than another but saying a character fully negates another is a step to far.

Like slips said sub zero and predator have different moves with different properties. The ice Klone is a complete different animal to the predator trap move (no idea what it's called). First of all shatter and Klone throw allow offense that predator doesn't have from his trap turning his trap into his own projectile and that's only if he wants.

Next thing is subs ability to absorb projectiles with Klone. This is a big benefit the trap doesn't have. It allows sub zero to have the threat of ice ball for even attempting to throw out a projectile into a full combo. Not to mention ex ice ball chewing through projectiles too.

Another thing is slide. This move in itself is a much, much better wake up than predators. Predators lack of wake up is quite big thing in a game with a lot of characters with great oki. But another aspect is sub being able to low profile under projectiles or and use it to close distance on an opponent eg full auto jacqui. Predator can only really do this with armour which although is an insane tool costs resources.

So although both characters have similar game plans their move sets are completely different. Some players will find that the way subs trap works for them fits their play style better than predators and vice versa. But saying sub is useless now doesn't make sense. Pred has better normals, offense etc in hunter. Hell he can even throw the trap in the air. But he can't sit behind his trap and pose the threat of throwing the Klone or shatter which do decent chip and fairly good damage or throwing an ice ball for a full combo of he gets the right read. Just my perspective on the matter anyway.

Sub has to make a read with ex ice ball to blow up a projectile. Predator just has to react with ex schimitar stab and he gets about twice as much damage.

These two moves are for the same purpose, but Scimitar Stab is definitely the move you would choose to have in the games current form.

 

[OnizukaPM]

Hahah

-Predator gonna get nerfed
-Yeah, awesome, Unbreakable is viable again Yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

 

[LaidbackOne]

NRS just gib unbreakable buffs pls.

 

[ZeZe]

Nerfs to Pred won't help UB nor CM Subbies. Nobody sees salvation for them in nerfs to other chars, that would be silly. UB and CM need buffs (and GM needs one tiny fix)! And then we are all set.

 

[protools27]

why pick him when theres someone who does what he does but 10x better?

Because you want to play that character. By that logic, no one should play reptile, johnny cage, ferra torr, etc, because there are other chars that do similar things but better. Sorry unbreakable isn't all that great, or hunter predator is better then grandmaster sub zero just make a choice and move on: stick with sub or move to predator. All this talk of sub being invalidated or killed, or "the first death of MKX" is just sad melodramatics. I mained catwoman in Injustice, you know how many times I was like "it sucks to work super hard to get in, land a hard knockdown, then guess wrong on someones wake up only to lose your oki advantage. I should just play bane, who has armor on everything and could give a fuck less about wake ups. Or hey, batgirl has 50/50's AND a meterless vortex that negates wake ups entirely, plus more damage in the corner and better wake ups." But I played catwoman because I loved the character, regardless if there were other chars that played similar to her but better.

 

[GAV]

Predator is better than pre-patch Tanya how.....?

...because he has way more tools and does a lot more damage.