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Strategy - Sub-Zero Predator V Sub Zero - MKX's First Death

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Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
I did some testing against Predator's D4 at max range as he is most likely going to be a secondary of mine and the following moves were not able to punish it.

Lao's EX spin (non tempest)
Mileena's Roll
Jax's dash punch
Jacqui's force rush
Johnny's shadow kick

These are some of the fastest and farthest reaching reversals in the game and these fall short. Reptile can get a combo with EX dash, Sub gets Slide, Scorpion gets take down.

The range of Preddy's D4 is a little ridiculous lol

Hmmm ok I'll look at it when I get home. I don't have a problem saying Predator's d4 is I the end better than Sub's, but I thought I'd at least point out the pros and cons of each one's.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
He has nothing his opponent needs to truly fear.
/thread.

This simply is, IMO, the crux of UFG's point. Differing builds and slight nuances aside, comparing Sub-Zero, not just as a whole but ESPECIALLY in Unbreakable, to Predator in his entirety as far as inspiring fear in opponents, is like comparing Dracula to the kid that Spongebob and Squidward thought was the Hash-Slinging Slasher.

As a longtime MK9 Sub-Zero player/ceaseless masochist, it really sucks to see the past repeating itself.
 

DinoPizzaria

Professional Twerking Choreographer
I think if SZ had the ability to hold the party for longer, dash cancel the parry without being left at negative frames and it had less recovery frames and start up frames, it would be a bit better. Not much but it's a start.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
I think if SZ had the ability to hold the party for longer, dash cancel the parry without being left at negative frames and it had less recovery frames and start up frames, it would be a bit better. Not much but it's a start.
There's nothing wrong with the move other than its recovery.
 

DinoPizzaria

Professional Twerking Choreographer
...this would be absolutely broken.
I don't think it would be broken. It would make him much more viable but definitely not broken. Kinda how kitana can hold her reflect. It would be good but can still be punished with a cross up attack. Even if he could dash cancel out of it, it would still be punishable with the right read. That just how I feel though. I see the main problem with the variation is him being easily readable punished for using one of the core powers in this variant and this is the only thing I can see that'd make the variation more viable without buffing his other variations. (Even though I feel he could use a slight damage buff)
 

protools27

Rebel without a scene
Ok so your argument is you don't give a shit if one character completely outclasses another in this game making one a terrible pick for his own unique merits, and you think that the rest of is should feel the same?
No my argument is that if you want to play sub zero then play sub zero, if you want to play predator then play predator. But one character cannot kill or invalidate another character period. No matter how many sub mains want to push this false narrative, sub is still very much there and available on the character select screen.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
I don't think it would be broken. It would make him much more viable but definitely not broken. Kinda how kitana can hold her reflect. It would be good but can still be punished with a cross up attack. Even if he could dash cancel out of it, it would still be punishable with the right read. That just how I feel though. I see the main problem with the variation is him being easily readable punished for using one of the core powers in this variant and this is the only thing I can see that'd make the variation more viable without buffing his other variations. (Even though I feel he could use a slight damage buff)
I think having the startup faster and the recovery fast would be fine.

Being able to hold it and dash cancel it would mean he can just do it, hold it, see if it worked, and then it'd be a risk for the opponent to even try to get him out of it since he can hold it as long as he wants on top of dash cancelling. You do realize it parries everything besides jump attacks? So that's including all lows and throws. He could just see someone jump and just dash away or underneath. He could probably just get the life lead and sit in his parry for the rest of the round if he wanted to if you had it your way.

And because he could dash cancel imagine what that would mean for pressure and strings.

This would be unbearably broke.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
/thread.

This simply is, IMO, the crux of UFG's point. Differing builds and slight nuances aside, comparing Sub-Zero, not just as a whole but ESPECIALLY in Unbreakable, to Predator in his entirety as far as inspiring fear in opponents, is like comparing Dracula to the kid that Spongebob and Squidward thought was the Hash-Slinging Slasher.

As a longtime MK9 Sub-Zero player/ceaseless masochist, it really sucks to see the past repeating itself.
And sadly it will repeat itself in the next MK installment.

Scrubs just cant get around ice clones. They have been trying since the 90's but gave up in 2011....
 

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
No my argument is that if you want to play sub zero then play sub zero, if you want to play predator then play predator. But one character cannot kill or invalidate another character period. No matter how many sub mains want to push this false narrative, sub is still very much there and available on the character select screen.
why pick him when theres someone who does what he does but 10x better?
 
This thread makes me kind of sick. This match is likely a 4-6 and indeed winnable. Threat of ex slide can freeze some zoning. Once predator is cornered, subzero and procede with safe offense..
"wait... d4 can go right through clon...."


shut up. ok. shut up.

do subs meaty setup, get clone out, if you read/guess a wakeup d4, jump and you get a full combo bc u hit him in the recovery frames of d4. if pred does nothing i sees the jump, his only option to beat a jump kick is ex up plasma that moves his body forward a slight bit and will get froze half the time. there is a lot more to the meta than this. I gave you a clear example. Play the match a few hundred times/thousand times and fricken figure something out.

I am not sure why people are so quick to jump to conclusions when the game is so young. Yes it is young. Matchups evolve. So many people crying about half way decent zoning in Predator but they do not say a thing about loopable pressure from kung lao or sinnok.

Used for glue is a hypocrite with an agenda.

it is too early in the game to throw out the wound cowboy classics "I have no options"

Nerf Preds damage, I agree with that, but please do not touch the recovery on his zoning. Please. I believe pred ex stab is not scaling correctly. A fact (if I am right) is something i am 10000% sure NRS knows about.

'drops mic' 'walks over to your girlfriend' 'leaves with her'
 
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