Video/Tutorial - Dragons Fire Liu Kang corner block trap

[Genei Jin]

I know but you said a lot of characters don't have an answer to the Klone. I don't want to argue I actually think we made the same point: Liu Kang shouldn't be nerfed.

Very well:

Non war god Kotal
Lackey torr
Commando Kano and to a lesser degree cut throat Kano
Ethereal mileena

I'm sure there's some more I forgot.

And that's not including characters without meter.

 

[Rude]

In most scenarios Liu Kang is not going to have 3 bars so let's get this theory bullshit out of the way but for the time being let's play this theory fighter.

Let's say you used 5 of those characters that has poor escape options and you ran out of meter while Liu has a full bar. Let's also pretend it's on the third round. Who's choice was it to use the meter unwisely and get cornered.

Now let's pretend that Liu Kang does the f213 frame tight and perfect without mistakes. Liu Kang and you still has to guess right which option to use. B12 to break armor or f213 to continue the loop but risk getting armored, low profiled or interrupted.


That's too many variables in one scenario. Exactly many loops does it take to kill the opponent from start to finish? Too many and too many chances for the opponent to break free.

Outside of the corner, the max f213 loops you usually get is about 2 until you go into mb fly kick. People aren't factoring the stamina it takes to use his run.

God, is this what I looked like in those Quan threads??

@I GOT HANDS

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Very well:

Non war god Kotal
Lackey torr
Commando Kano and to a lesser degree cut throat Kano
Ethereal mileena

I'm sure there's some more I forgot.

And that's not including characters without meter.

Fair enough. I might add sonya, sub is a struggle for her imo. I think kano can keep the Klone in check with knives at full screen, and I doubt ice ball would trade but we can save this for the sub forums.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Are you serious you are saying Klone is a hit and miss. Dude clone is a nightmare to deal with in the corner for majority of the cast and this includes Johnny Cage also as he has no options other than using enhanced special to get out. Dont compare Liu Kang's pressure with Ice clone corner trap. And if you still think it is more harder to deal with please show everyone a match video of Liu Kang's nightmaric pressure in the corner. I can show you many of Sub-Zero's though.

yeah if he gets you in the corner, your in trouble. He's not really anything special midscreen tho. All you need to do in the corner is block the mixup and punish. Unless he hits you with a shatter combo, then you're not loosing too much health. It is overwhelming in the corner, but that's what makes him a good character, since he's not very damaging midscreen.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

God, is this what I looked like in those Quan threads??

@I GOT HANDS

Hmm. I guess that would make me this guy, which is never a good thing. Don't sweat it tho, at least you weren't the guy in here who justified it with an article on how "if Cyrax was ok, than this is ok".

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

yeah if he gets you in the corner, your in trouble. He's not really anything special midscreen tho. All you need to do in the corner is block the mixup and punish. Unless he hits you with a shatter combo, then you're not loosing too much health. It is overwhelming in the corner, but that's what makes him a good character, since he's not very damaging midscreen.

Pal i lost the finals of a tourney in my country because of that ice clone setup in the corner. All my opponent doing was B33 en ice ball which has a push back and he was safe and behind ice clone after that and B2 which also has a pushback so he was a little behind clone there as well, my options of punishing him without meter were nearly 0 at that time. So this is what i mean to say that his ice clone trap in the corner is more dirty than anything in the game. atleast you can poke out of Liu's pressure but you can't in sub-zero's situation.

 

[Parasurama]

S

It feels like, to me at least, that these RC pressure characters weren't as well tested as they could have been, maybe.

Although I'm not really sure what the answer is in Kang's case. He kind of needs strong pressure and armor breaking to do well.

Maybe reduce some of the plus frames off f213 so that characters can armor.

I'm not sure.

If NRS reduces the f213 adv any more then Dualist an already weaker variation becomes weaker. Which already happened when the mob attacked last time. There is breathing room after the FK MB, if a character cant do anything after LK being only 2 plus in frames, then there is probably something wrong with the character themselves, but for the majority it is a guessing game.

 

[mkl]

So if you just want Liu Kang to meme out choose a character with slow ass normals and refuse to use armored attacks to blow him up for this. Too broken, obviously. If certain characters don't do well against this pressure there are many other characters who can easily get out of this, choose one of them and go from there. This game is fairly matchup heavy and you can't just stick to one character and pray they'll work for everything.

But still, it's obvious this is going to be nerfed and Dualist mains are going to flip their fucking lids when it happens.

 

[GreatKungLao]

S


If NRS reduces the f213 adv any more then Dualist an already weaker variation becomes weaker. Which already happened when the mob attacked last time. There is breathing room after the FK MB, if a character cant do anything after LK being only 2 plus in frames, then there is probably something wrong with the character themselves, but for the majority it is a guessing game.

To be honest, I would trade +2 frames of FK>BK meter burn to become +1 or 0 (just less block advantage after meter burn, but still not punishable) in return for old F213 block stun. I want to win with Dualist on tournaments, but he needs something more besides old F213 block stun.

I'm more than sure that NRS reduced F213 block stun without even thinking that it will affect other variations, Dualist to be specific. That's why nerfing universal normals and combos shouldn't be done based on it's advantages only in 1 or 2 variations. Dualist needed original F213, but they most likely didn't even knew what they were doing with this variation by killing F213.

Or they can reduce + frames on meter burned FK>BK, leave F213 as it is right now, but make DD1 in Dualist even faster so that he could jail with current F213 after switching stances and go with F12 or B12 to jail, cause right now F213 DD1 pressure is so free for reversals and pokes.

What I can say for sure though: Liu Kang's FBRC and F213 SHOULD NOT BE NERFED ANY MORE FURTHER.

 

[Derptile]

I can't believe this thread is still open...

Dragon's Fire will probably not be getting changed anytime soon since NRS has always known about his Flying kick MB and FBRCs frame data since day 1 and they have both been nerfed(reasonably and fairly) through the patches. Honestly I think the best solution is to give Erron Black and Takeda a 7 frame jab or poke. Jason and Kenshi are in their own league of what they need to have fixed and changed so yeah.

 

[GreatKungLao]

I can't believe this thread is still open...

Dragon's Fire will probably not be getting changed anytime soon since NRS has always known about his Flying kick MB and FBRCs frame data since day 1 and they have both been nerfed(reasonably and fairly) through the patches. Honestly I think the best solution is to give Erron Black and Takeda a 7 frame jab or poke. Jason and Kenshi are in their own league of what they need to have fixed and changed so yeah.

But you know how it actually works, it's much more lazy simple to nerf one character, than buff a few in order to favor the matchup.

 

[Rude]

S


If NRS reduces the f213 adv any more then Dualist an already weaker variation becomes weaker. Which already happened when the mob attacked last time. There is breathing room after the FK MB, if a character cant do anything after LK being only 2 plus in frames, then there is probably something wrong with the character themselves, but for the majority it is a guessing game.

Unless they touched the adv ONLY for DF and no other variation.

 

[Derptile]

Unless they touched the adv ONLY for DF and no other variation.

I don't even see the reason to touch his F213 or FBRCs, the problem is that the flying kick MB allows him to recharge his stamina and then continue the pressure and some characters don't have an answer to that. If they were to change something it should either be that the Flying kick MB frame data gets changed or the characters that are affected by this should have a way to deal with the pressure.

 

[Big Pampering]

The ppl who are seen as the liu kang players that really understand liu kang are barely even posting in here. All these other liu kang players trying to justify his stuff. That speaks volumes.

 

[Parasurama]

The ppl who are seen as the liu kang players that really understand liu kang are barely even posting in here. All these other liu kang players trying to justify his stuff. That speaks volumes.

And you know more? You do not even know who the Liu Kang players are. They have already posted their opinion.

 

[just_2swift]

I can't believe this thread is still open...

Dragon's Fire will probably not be getting changed anytime soon since NRS has always known about his Flying kick MB and FBRCs frame data since day 1 and they have both been nerfed(reasonably and fairly) through the patches. Honestly I think the best solution is to give Erron Black and Takeda a 7 frame jab or poke. Jason and Kenshi are in their own league of what they need to have fixed and changed so yeah.

BOOM

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

And you know more? You do not even know who the Liu Kang players are. They have already posted their opinion.

i think this fool only wants the thread to be running rather than being dead...

 

[LavaG]

I love how these people talk as if b1 or b12 is some save ass string lol. "Oh he can just do b1 or b12 and shhhhtuff your armor and keep going". Its not safe on BLOCK. Now as ive said, i dont agree with any block infinite in any game. But some people here just sound dumb. I guess kobu tanya, mournful kitana, a list cage and swarm queen dvorah are gonna get the pitchforks next?

LOL, at b12 not being safe on block, are u serious?

 

[Derptile]

The ppl who are seen as the liu kang players that really understand liu kang are barely even posting in here. All these other liu kang players trying to justify his stuff. That speaks volumes.

This guy is unfortunately right lol.

 

[Big Pampering]

And you know more? You do not even know who the Liu Kang players are. They have already posted their opinion.

I am pretty sure everyone who has been following this thread already knows who these liu kang players are.

 

[FrankieDelicks]

Hey!! @LavaG.......stop Posting here and go to your Boneshaper Shinnok!

 

[LeftOverShark]

You really need to do your homework a bit better on this one. Dink showed ABSOLUTELY nothing of the sort, and he had to deliberately do the pseudo so slow that it was no faster than an average string, while pretending he was countering TB's Quan Chi vortex, while doing absolutely nothing of the sort.



Seriously, watch the video Tom made addressing the claim

Then watch the video Dink made

All Dink proved is that he will deliberately manipulate the facts to try and avoid QC rebalancing. He is the poster boy for downplaying and blatant lying to defend their main. He is like the only person on this site who downplays QC harder than M2Dave. Does this really surprise you?

If you watch the videos and can't see the difference, or need more "proof" in the matter, you are either blind or you are letting your agenda against TB and M2Dave blind you from the truth.

I'm fine with calling out TB for his misinformation when he posts it, but please share what it is so that we know, don't cite Dink's MISINFORMATION as proof somehow that TB was exposed or something, when it all that video proves is that certain members of this forum will go to any length to convince you of a lie. I know you, you are smarter than that, so I'm not quite sure how you were fooled by this.

Dink sounded like he was being sarcastic lol, but he does down play quan a lot. Kind of the whole reason he kicked dragon out of STB.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Pal i lost the finals of a tourney in my country because of that ice clone setup in the corner. All my opponent doing was B33 en ice ball which has a push back and he was safe and behind ice clone after that and B2 which also has a pushback so he was a little behind clone there as well, my options of punishing him without meter were nearly 0 at that time. So this is what i mean to say that his ice clone trap in the corner is more dirty than anything in the game. atleast you can poke out of Liu's pressure but you can't in sub-zero's situation.

He was spending meter to keep you there, and barely building any sooo. It's not as dirty as Quan. With sub it's not even a 50/50 you can react to b2. The Klone dissapeears pretty soon and it goes away on block. Liu can keep characters there and the best they can do is a trade, I know it's popular to give Tom crap but he is right. Even Kotal Kahn has answers to the Klone. He can sit at full screen and heal to make sub come to him. It's a terrible matchup but at least Kotal gets to play. B2 can be punished by quite a bit actually.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Dink sounded like he was being sarcastic lol, but he does down play quan a lot. Kind of the whole reason he kicked dragon out of STB.

Yeah, he was sarcastically acting like TB hadn't labbed it out properly, by pretending to do the same set up and show how "easy" it is to escape. But he deliberately slowed down the combo to put the gaps in there, this is his main, there is no way he couldn't replicate TBs lab setup for a character he doesn't play. He simply chose not to. Downplay in its most disgusting form and I feel bad for anybody fooled by it.

 

[JDM]

In most scenarios Liu Kang is not going to have 3 bars so let's get this theory bullshit out of the way but for the time being let's play this theory fighter.

Let's say you used 5 of those characters that has poor escape options and you ran out of meter while Liu has a full bar. Let's also pretend it's on the third round. Who's choice was it to use the meter unwisely and get cornered.

Now let's pretend that Liu Kang does the f213 frame tight and perfect without mistakes. Liu Kang and you still has to guess right which option to use. B12 to break armor or f213 to continue the loop but risk getting armored, low profiled or interrupted.


That's too many variables in one scenario. Exactly many loops does it take to kill the opponent from start to finish? Too many and too many chances for the opponent to break free.

Outside of the corner, the max f213 loops you usually get is about 2 until you go into mb fly kick. People aren't factoring the stamina it takes to use his run.

He only needs 1 bar to loop infinitely bro. Also, you're only thinking on behalf of the Liu Kang player making mistakes, what happens if I fail to poke out? I get fucked and put back into the situation. Bad news for me, I guess huh? And if I have meter, I have to guess whether or not he's gonna try to armor break me. I have an option but he also has an option to counter it. There shouldn't be an option to counter literally everything I do and put me back into the situation, and the make me block infinitely if I have no meter. see?