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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
SaltShaker said:
I didn't know about that corner pressure on Quan Chi. Good to know stuff.

My main question is how are you approaching this matchup around mid screen distance? This is normally where I can be dominant with Cyber Kano against most characters, but after playing a 2 n a half hour set against Summoner/Warlock, i was about ready to break the game. I haven't raged like that in a while lol. I "felt" like I had options, but QC's seemed to just counter all my normal strats at that range. Never have I felt that I had to get inside as much as I did in this set.

By far I had the most problems around Quan Chi's mid Rune range. How do you fight him around that distance?
Click to expand...
Cybernetic Kano is Quan Chi's worst match up.

I will explain why at a later time.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
General M2Dave said:
Cybernetic Kano is Quan Chi's worst match up.

I will explain why at a later time.
Click to expand...
Cool thanks man.

I figured I must be doing something off or not putting something together because on paper I felt I should have everything to be dominating this MU, but instead we were playing ping pong.
 
countrypistol

countrypistol

Noob
I've been looking into the Buzzsaw Kung Lao match up. I struggle online reacting to teleports and high/low footsies, but when labbing it yesterday I've noticed Lao gets very little damage off his lows. None of them bounce or convert into major combos. The trick, I think, would be to bait overheads with low blocks, and punish accordingly. Other players will just be mashing their combos without thought, assuming after a few low hits you'll crouch block. They'll go for an overhead, leaving them open to a punish.

As for the teleport, quick low attacks knock Lao out of it. Forward dashing when you see the blue flash works too, but not online due to the input delay. If you get a read on when players are likely to teleport, crouch 1. I experimented with quick footsies against the dummy, and it worked against teleport, but it wouldn't against a dive kick happy player.

This is all speculation at the moment, I haven't had the opportunity to test it against anybody living. Despite Buzzsaw's current popularity, I suspect he's not as strong as people think. Lag seems to work in his favour, but offline I think his riskier options become more apparent.

If anybody can confirm or refute my suspicions, please do.
 
NHDR

NHDR

Noob
I'm planning to hit online soon with Kano, would be the first time. I anticipate many Scorpions and teleport characters. Is there a good and/or simple punish I can do on block? I figure I'll have to zone less and play more based on reaction. Thanks.
 
ando1184

ando1184

Noob
countrypistol said:
I've been looking into the Buzzsaw Kung Lao match up. I struggle online reacting to teleports and high/low footsies, but when labbing it yesterday I've noticed Lao gets very little damage off his lows. None of them bounce or convert into major combos. The trick, I think, would be to bait overheads with low blocks, and punish accordingly. Other players will just be mashing their combos without thought, assuming after a few low hits you'll crouch block. They'll go for an overhead, leaving them open to a punish.

As for the teleport, quick low attacks knock Lao out of it. Forward dashing when you see the blue flash works too, but not online due to the input delay. If you get a read on when players are likely to teleport, crouch 1. I experimented with quick footsies against the dummy, and it worked against teleport, but it wouldn't against a dive kick happy player.

This is all speculation at the moment, I haven't had the opportunity to test it against anybody living. Despite Buzzsaw's current popularity, I suspect he's not as strong as people think. Lag seems to work in his favour, but offline I think his riskier options become more apparent.

If anybody can confirm or refute my suspicions, please do.
Click to expand...
I've only seen Laos doing one overhead and that's the hat slash looking one and that can go overhead overhead and yes it's punishable but it's also special cancelable to make it safe. The Laos I played would do the overhead I to low hat or overhead overhead into low hat all the time and I feel there's nothing we can do about it. Low hat is relatively safe in itself :( If there is a way to punish it please let me know. I struggle online against most Laos because of that nonsense.
 
cyke_out

cyke_out

Noob
NHDR said:
I'm planning to hit online soon with Kano, would be the first time. I anticipate many Scorpions and teleport characters. Is there a good and/or simple punish I can do on block? I figure I'll have to zone less and play more based on reaction. Thanks.
Click to expand...
What variation? Cyber's punish combo start is either 112 or b13 depending on the range or if you need a mid to connect.
 
FlappyDaniel

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
NHDR said:
I'm planning to hit online soon with Kano, would be the first time. I anticipate many Scorpions and teleport characters. Is there a good and/or simple punish I can do on block? I figure I'll have to zone less and play more based on reaction. Thanks.
Click to expand...
If you wanna piss em off? yeah just 112+Choke every time they teleport. There are better moves to use frame advantage wise, but nothing makes somebody ragequit faster then being choked 5 times in a row.
 
ando1184

ando1184

Noob
How do you guys feel about the ermac matchup? Master of souls var. because I played a good one online today and I couldn't figure out how to punish his strings and pokes. I punished teleport and his overhead kick but everything else felt super safe and he constantly pressured me and beat me out on everything. The matchup was really annoying and felt uphill the entire time.
 
bdizzle2700

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
What's a solid way yo punish scorps leg take down? 112 starts high so I didn't bother, and so I tried b1(cyber) and it wiffed. Maybe b3? Or grabs?
 
Derocus

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
bdizzle2700 said:
What's a solid way yo punish scorps leg take down? 112 starts high so I didn't bother, and so I tried b1(cyber) and it wiffed. Maybe b3? Or grabs?
Click to expand...
Pretty much anything can punish that. I'd say use a B3 starter, it's probably fast enough, haven't had a chance to test this though.
 
Killusion

Killusion

Stream addict
Well if you play cutthroat, Scorpions slide gets punished by f2 which leads to 29-30% meterless. B3 punishes it, and if you're on point (not online? lol) you have time to walk forward a bit and punish with 112.
 
TheJaquio

TheJaquio

Noob
Any ideas on the Commando vs Mileena matchup? Her roll seems to low profile under command grabs, and her low pokes low profile under grabs as well, causing me to often burn a bar on a command grab for nothing if she decides to low poke. A blocked teleport or roll also often puts her outside of 112 range, so punishes are lackluster in damage since they have to be started with b13.
 
FlappyDaniel

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Play really defensive and try to force her to roll or teleport, and punish when you block it. Try punishing tele with 2,F4 since it pushes a far way and can help you get her to the corner to apply pressure. The only overhead option you have to worry about with Mileena is VERY slow so block low for the most part against her as well.

edit: roll should be punishable with a Command grab?

I don't have as much experience against this matchup so just thinking.
 
TheJaquio

TheJaquio

Noob
Roll is punishable with a command grab yeah, teleport should be too, but a 16% punish (w/o meter) isn't a very threatening way to make her think twice about doing roll and ex tele that both lead to upward of 40% for her.

The part I'm struggling with mainly is that her roll and low pokes go under cmd grabs, which negates the threat of armored grabs as pressure or an oki tool. At which point, what does commando really have in this matchup, since it can't punish her unsafe moves for big damage either?
 
FlappyDaniel

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
yeah that's a good point, low risk/high reward for her.

I'll get in the lab tonight and try to figure some stuff out. Though in commando we may have to settle for mediocre punish dmg and just go for more corner carry or something. Not being able to reliably punish with 112 is a little worrying since with that we could at least get 20% no meter or if we wanna spend meter get 30%+. is there not enough time after blocking to walk forward or RC into the 112?
 
TheJaquio

TheJaquio

Noob
There may be enough time to walk forward, but I'd have see if I can get it reliably on reaction. All said and done though, with cmd grab pressure falling flat due to her low profile moves, it seems like there is no reason to not go cybernetic. Same string pressure options, better spacing, mid knife, better meterless punishes, etc.

EDIT: Double checked, and roll can be punished with 112 just fine, but a telekick blocked from standing is out of range on the first punch. I think you can walk just slightly and connect the 112, but it's a tight window and B13 is more reliable.
 
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FlappyDaniel

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Yes cyber may just be a better choice, but I like to be stubborn and stick with 1 character (1 variation in this game). I just have to peek at some frame data for things and see if we have any time to move before punish on those moves. If there's enough time to walk in range of 112 or even 32 or B13.

My game plan above all else in Commando is get them to the corner, as efficiently as I possibly can. With Air Kano ball/upball as well as his grounded normals and strings plus the command grab potential he is an extremely vicious opponent in the corner. Teleports mess with this since people have an option to get out with teleports, even if they are punishable on block.
 
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