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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

Decay

King of the Bill
I watched most of it. That was some hella good play. I watched the Erron matches over about 3-4 time and still have no idea how you did it. I'm just not playing this MU good at all against good Erron players. Even when I block the mixups it's like I eventually get caught and Batgirl'd but the 2.0 version.

Any pointers here?

EDIT: I thought it was the one you played Arma. Didn't see this. About to watch now as I've yet to play a good Kitana.
Thanks man. Erron has those 50/50s but if you never let him in he's not a much of a problem. Also, you can kind of fuzzy the overhead/low if it's offline without lag. I guess it comes down to learning his block strings and then finding an opening after blocking correctly.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Thanks man. Erron has those 50/50s but if you never let him in he's not a much of a problem. Also, you can kind of fuzzy the overhead/low if it's offline without lag. I guess it comes down to learning his block strings and then finding an opening after blocking correctly.
Ah ok, yea we played at one of my friends house and it felt brutal. Being in the corner felt like death lol. The one thing I felt that worked like a charm was the backdash though. Anything else up close felt like he was always one step ahead and I was fighting uphill. Gotta do it again on Friday so I can't have it go down like that again lol.

One other thing. When he does get in. What do you use to take back control of the match again or get him out? This was my main problem after blocking his pokes and strings.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
Ah ok, yea we played at one of my friends house and it felt brutal. Being in the corner felt like death lol. The one thing I felt that worked like a charm was the backdash though. Anything else up close felt like he was always one step ahead and I was fighting uphill. Gotta do it again on Friday so I can't have it go down like that again lol.

One other thing. When he does get in. What do you use to take back control of the match again or get him out? This was my main problem after blocking his pokes and strings.
Well he can't be plus after everything, in fact, most characters are negative on strings and pokes on block. Especially if he commits to a sand splash thing without hit confirming. You can get 112 after blocking that into full combo. Also, use b23 as a wiff punish, I just started using that string more after seeing a wiff or something that looks safe because of the distance. It has good distance and you can get the grenade combo from it
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'

Dunno if y'all watched any of this but at the end you can see my approach against zone heavy kitana
Dude. The way you got in against that Kitana was impressive. I hope I never have to face something like that online. I'd have an aneurysm.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
Dude. The way you got in against that Kitana was impressive. I hope I never have to face something like that online. I'd have an aneurysm.
God. I had to adjust big time because I got 3-0ed in winners lol. Cossner was next to me and was like "just down 4 under the fans and walk forward a little and wait for him to get to the corner or do something dumb" and I listened and it worked
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Well he can't be plus after everything, in fact, most characters are negative on strings and pokes on block. Especially if he commits to a sand splash thing without hit confirming. You can get 112 after blocking that into full combo. Also, use b23 as a wiff punish, I just started using that string more after seeing a wiff or something that looks safe because of the distance. It has good distance and you can get the grenade combo from it
Yea I was punishing sand on block, but he didn't throw it out recklessly too often. You're dead on about B23. No idea why I didn't think of trying it. On whiff I was throwing out a knife haha.

I'm gonna add your info on Erron when in categorize the OP by character in a couple of days. Thanks man. This should help me get a good idea on how to play this MU better.
 

OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
I've played a ton of matches against Quan Chi. I feel that if he goes Summoner, you ABSOLUTELY must go Cutthroat, since he outzones the fuck out of you in Cybernetic. If you don't go Cutthroat you have no way to open him up at all, especially in Cybernetic. Essentially the gameplan is get to the corner and 50/50 the fuck out of him, since his wakeups are ass. Also something I've been doing, instead of going into a full combo, is mixing b12~db1, b31~db1 and forward throw, it's sorta like a vortex I guess.

However, if he goes Warlock or Sorcerer I feel that Cybernetic is best.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Quick question. How can (Cutthroat) Kano deal with people poking with d3 after they do a string?
You can upball people on a hard read if they try to do crouch pokes after they do a string that is zero on block. The buffering window for specials is bigger than for normals and its easy to get the upball out frame perfect. Upball is 5 frames in this game so every now and then you should use it just to get into your opponents head. Same thing applies to the straight ball. People have to be made wary that you will throw it out and hit them with it if they get too predictable, they start blocking more after only getting hit once or twice because they are greedy for the punish.

You can also use ex straight ball cancel into a combo as away of interrupting interruptible strings and when you know your opponent is gonna press buttons. After the staggering first hit you don't even need to run cancel as you are in range for f2,1,2.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
I am almost done labbing the whole cast, I feel like I definitely need to get some equipment to start making videos. I am starting to think Kano definitely has the tools to beat the entire cast in Cutthroat, you just change your playstyle and adapt to your opponent.

Edit: even if you don't get a full combo with normals or instant run rancelling into normals, you can still get an upball or a straight ball or other specials on a lot of stuff. Kano all in all has very good punishment and we all just gotta hit the lab and figure these out by ourselves. Due to the varying amounts of blockstun on different moves all punishes must be practiced. Record the dummy doing a string into block and attempt to punish. If you know your opponent is gonna block after safe strings you gotta practice instant run cancelling into commando throws and cutthroat b1.
 
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LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I am almost done labbing the whole cast, I feel like I definitely need to get some equipment to start making videos. I am starting to think Kano definitely has the tools to beat the entire cast in Cutthroat, you just change your playstyle and adapt to your opponent.

Edit: even if you don't get a full combo with normals or instant run rancelling into normals, you can still get an upball or a straight ball or other specials on a lot of stuff. Kano all in all has very good punishment and we all just gotta hit the lab and figure these out by ourselves. Due to the varying amounts of blockstun on different moves all punishes must be practiced. Record the dummy doing a string into block and attempt to punish. If you know your opponent is gonna block after safe strings you gotta practice instant run cancelling into commando throws and cutthroat b1.
I am beginning to look into cutthroat again as well. I'm actually quite pleased with the char since I'm finding all the variations are viable in different ways. But I miss b2 in cyber quite a bit when I'm not using it. Honestly haven't nailed down a MU yet where I feel commando is best, but I enjoy trying my luck at it and am successful kinda often . Insta run into cmd grabs have been eluding me but I think they will be needed as will tick throws.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I have yet to find a losing mu with cybernetics
Swarm Queen/Venomous D'Vorah.
All Scorpion variations.
Grandmaster and Unbreakable Sub.
Covert Ops Sonya.


I think we have on of the few characters that can go toe to toe with Bojutsu, but these matches definitely don't feel in Kano's favor. They feel really uphill, even the ones I win.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Swarm Queen/Venomous D'Vorah.
All Scorpion variations.
Grandmaster and Unbreakable Sub.
Covert Ops Sonya.


I think we have on of the few characters that can go toe to toe with Bojutsu, but these matches definitely don't feel in Kano's favor. They feel really uphill, even the ones I win.
I will agree with Sub, takes some work to take on a grandmaster but I've never faced an unbreakable yet. Tbh that's the only char on the list that I've faced someone who was a competent user. The rest of them have been eluding me except for the lagging scorpion army and only like two of them even did combo's lol. Would be nice to run into some good players. You play rooms, vs. matches, or private?
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I will agree with Sub, takes some work to take on a grandmaster but I've never faced an unbreakable yet. Tbh that's the only char on the list that I've faced someone who was a competent user. The rest of them have been eluding me except for the lagging scorpion army and only like two of them even did combo's lol. Would be nice to run into some good players. You play rooms, vs. matches, or private?
Yea they don't feel too fun to play lol. I actually think Scorpion is even worse a MU than Sub-Zero though.?He has more answers than most for Kano and can turn one missed knife into a 35-39% vortex. You gotta play this MU in slow but with double the brain lol.

I play people I know be it from here or from my area that play. Other than them when I play randoms I usually go to a room and look for people with strong connections and high win % which gives 50/50 results. Some people have good records but when you beat them one time they quit, and some people actually are good and play a long set. When people I want to play with or know aren't available, I'll search for good players in rooms.
 

NoobSaibot

PSN: JP_THUNDA
Just realized Erron Black has a pretty dirty set up with his f1 2 string. If you block it he can cancel it into his command grab and it'll connect. Can be poked out of but if he doesn't go for the throw and instead finishes the string he can beat out most of Kano's normals. Might be able to poke him with a d3 or d4 if there's a big enough gap in the string but haven't had too much time to practice with it. I'll check it out more when I get home though
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Swarm Queen/Venomous D'Vorah.
All Scorpion variations.
Grandmaster and Unbreakable Sub.
Covert Ops Sonya.


I think we have on of the few characters that can go toe to toe with Bojutsu, but these matches definitely don't feel in Kano's favor. They feel really uphill, even the ones I win.
I've played against great subzeros and Sonya and they are definitely in kanos favor imo. Can't comment on devorah and scorpion though
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I've played against great subzeros and Sonya and they are definitely in kanos favor imo. Can't comment on devorah and scorpion though
Sonya maybe I don't know the match too much but what in the world makes you think the Sub match is in his favor?

I think Scorpion is probably his worst MU so far. I heard a few people say it and didn't believe it at first, but now I do lol.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Sonya maybe I don't know the match too much but what in the world makes you think the Sub match is in his favor?

I think Scorpion is probably his worst MU so far. I heard a few people say it and didn't believe it at first, but now I do lol.
Kano knives recover to quickly. He cant throw a clone and trade with projectiles like he can in other mus so he haaas to approach you. The only way he can approach is by sliding or jumping in again because of how quickly knives recover. Both options are very unsafe and a jump in is easily aa by b1 and slide is very punishable. Besides the close, Kano also has considerably better footsie tools such as knives, f4, d4, b1, b2 , etc.. Also all of subzeros 50/50 are easily punishable with b1 unless he ends in ex ball.. Also if trapped in the corner ex knives are the perfect tool to escape and actually start your own pressure. Also sub can't clone out of kanos pressure and his armored options are unsafe
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Sonya maybe I don't know the match too much but what in the world makes you think the Sub match is in his favor?

I think Scorpion is probably his worst MU so far. I heard a few people say it and didn't believe it at first, but now I do lol.
I'd love to play a good scorpion but who has one?
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Kano knives recover to quickly. He cant throw a clone and trade with projectiles like he can in other mus so he haaas to approach you. The only way he can approach is by sliding or jumping in again because of how quickly knives recover. Both options are very unsafe and a jump in is easily aa by b1 and slide is very punishable. Besides the close, Kano also has considerably better footsie tools such as knives, f4, d4, b1, b2 , etc.. Also all of subzeros 50/50 are easily punishable with b1 unless he ends in ex ball.. Also if trapped in the corner ex knives are the perfect tool to escape and actually start your own pressure. Also sub can't clone out of kanos pressure and his armored options are unsafe
I'm gonna have to take this into account next time I play one. I have had the majority of my problems when up close against him, but not really at distance or even getting out of the corner which I feel Kano does better than most of Subs opponents. It's mainly inside of nuetral range that always feels like a mission. I'm gonna take a lot of this into account for next time.

I'd love to play a good scorpion but who has one?
In one of those online tourneys I played a guy in the semi's with a Scorpion that was just insane. I was so salty that after it I added him and played like 30 games and probably lost 20 of them. Then I've been playing him about 3 or 4 times after but always come out with something like 14-25 each time. When I go back online I'll ask if I can share his tag to a really good player who wants to play Scorpion and I'll PM you it. Hopefully you can figure something out I'm not seeing here.
 

cyke_out

Noob
I've done some test with grandmaster sub in training. I had the Kano dummy block everything and reverse with knife toss. I did all of sub's strings into ice clone and immediately did either ice ball or slide and everytime, Kano was able to block everything.

The clone is not an issue for cyber Kano. Kano has better normals and better mid screen damage and control than grandmaster.

Scorpion on the other hand... Fuck that guy.
 

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Yeah, haven't faced a good scorpion yet. Just been facing scrublords who spam teleport.
They can be punished into full combo by Cutthroat's f212 btw. Not sure about you other variations. f4 probably has enough distance to start something.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
in commando variation you can throw a knife and parry right after. it caught erron blacks slide , and can probably catch other moves such as subs slide
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
I'm gonna have to take this into account next time I play one. I have had the majority of my problems when up close against him, but not really at distance or even getting out of the corner which I feel Kano does better than most of Subs opponents. It's mainly inside of nuetral range that always feels like a mission. I'm gonna take a lot of this into account for next time.



In one of those online tourneys I played a guy in the semi's with a Scorpion that was just insane. I was so salty that after it I added him and played like 30 games and probably lost 20 of them. Then I've been playing him about 3 or 4 times after but always come out with something like 14-25 each time. When I go back online I'll ask if I can share his tag to a really good player who wants to play Scorpion and I'll PM you it. Hopefully you can figure something out I'm not seeing here.
Yea that'd be great. Thanks
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Good stuff, duder. Nice to see blockstrings being used properly.
Be sure to put this in the video thread too :v
I fought a Grandmaster Zero just now. He never threw the clone so I don't know if I can jump it or whatever but from fullscreen if he makes the clone and starts spamming ice balls, jump the first two, then throw a knife. The clone will disappear allowing you to hit Zero and block the ice ball which does no chip.

Things should then be in your favor for throwing knifes. Doesn't matter if he crouches, your building meter and he needs to get to midscreen to play at his best. You'll probably do a little chip as he tries to close distance to mid screen. If he is determined to stay away then he can't do anything as you keep throwing knifes.

Expect a ragequit if he isn't good enough to approach.
I will agree with Sub, takes some work to take on a grandmaster but I've never faced an unbreakable yet. Tbh that's the only char on the list that I've faced someone who was a competent user. The rest of them have been eluding me except for the lagging scorpion army and only like two of them even did combo's lol. Would be nice to run into some good players. You play rooms, vs. matches, or private?
when u play sub especially grandmaster just zone them out. I feel that commandomkano is the best since u can throw a knife and immediately parry his slide so sub has no option but to come in on u and even then Kano has an amazing close game