Juicy: Which players are carried or held back by their main?

[Matix218]

Even though kabal won KIT, look at the top 8.

Kabal
Cage
Kung Lao/Kenshi
Kitana
Cage
Jax
Smoke
Sonya

Most mk top 8's look that way. This idea that its all kabal is a false talking point

Yeah I agree, people way over exaggerate the whole "mk9 only had kabals in top 8" thing. Most mk9 top 8s at the best/most stacked tournaments during the games life had pretty good character diversity and I dont remember many that stick out in my mind as having more than like 2 kabals

 

[imblackjames]

I don't think sonic is carried by bg at all I think the only reason people think she's so good is because of sonic fox

 

[SonicFox5000]

I never said you were bad, obviously a bad player won't be placing at all regardless of character, but hands down best? We all know how retarded Batgirl vortex is and when I had to explain at NEC to someone outside of the NRS scene what was happening it sounds so fucking bad explaining how her vortex works. If she didn't have that she would have all the other tools she needs and all this tech you apparently have but don't need because gimmicks or fundamentals will never be better than a safe 50-50 that leads into itself. If you still go undefeated in MKX I will apologize, but no other player in any fighting game goes undefeated if it's not the character that has something to do with it. MK9 side tourney without the top players there is more of a pat on the back too. Until then I can't help but see you as a pretty good player using a rediculous character not the undisputed best of all time. When I try to think of the players that are "best" it's based on who as a player impresses me the most, I just don't ever get impressed by Batgirl when every single thing leads into vortex.

I competed with all the top players in mk9 what. And BG is stupid, but I can also use the entire cast well. Things looking pretty or not shouldnt play a factor at all. I didnt say you were calling me bad, but to say i have no fundamentals is completely ridiculous. Bg is one of the few characters who only needs to make 1 read in the neutral, and could potentially end the game right there. Take a smart player with knowledge of both neutral game and good fundamentals and give them batgirl or another top tier. Its Reeses in pieces homie.
And one extra note: I mainly used Mileena while the game was alive and counterpicked KL and Kenshi/Cage with Sonya. Now i use whoever I want whenever lol

 

[coolwhip]

I would argue though that detroit still missed a lot of top 8's. pl and cdjr played kabal but they were more kl/jax players. It was mostly reo. Kevo won some and got top 8 at some tournaments but that was a small period of time. Cat rarely placed. I would agree if our scene was bigger that kabals would be everywhere but our scene just isn't that big and there is small chance that will change in mkx.

The tournament in which PL and Detroit went mainly Kabal (EVO 2013), they got top 8, along with REO (3 Kabals in top 8 at the biggest tournament of the year is a pretty big indicator). The only top 8's Detroit ever missed out on were EVO 2012 and MLG Raleigh 2012, but that doesn't say much about Kabal. It just means that everyone goes through a bad patch. Even REO missed out on top 8 at Anaheim and EVO 2012.

It was "mostly REO" because he was the one dedicated Kabal main, not to mention the best player who used him consistently. So obviously, he's going to have more success than others. But, Detroit got top 8 at EVO with Kabal, and won MLG Anaheim with Kabal. That's pretty big. CD Jr had to resort to a underdeveloped Kabal at EVO 2012 too, and Kabal made grand finals. And of course you have 3 Kabal players in top 8 at EVO 2013, two of which used only Kabal, and one only used another character in one of the sets he won (PL used KL against Forever King. The only other time he picked KL was against REO and he lost that set).

I mean nobody's saying MK9 had nothing but Kabals. That would be flat out false. There are other viable characters who were almost always in top 8's. But it doesn't take much to see just how dominant that character was, as evidenced by the above. Hell even Kevo won a major with him. PL won a major with him mainly (CEO 2013). Detroit won a major with him (MLG Anaheim), and REO won about a million.

 

[coolwhip]

PS: It says a lot that we look at Kenshi and Cyrax as two super broke characters (and they are), yet for the most part, with the exception of Denzell's insane EVO 2013 run, Kabal dominated those characters. I mean, it wasn't even close. Kabal vs. Cyrax sets in tournament were painful to watch.

 

[GuamoKun]

as much as I hate @SonicFox5000 's style of play he knows what's like going on in people's heads and messes with it and stuff. EVERYTHING HE SAYS AND DOES IS A TRAP.

Playing a character like BG or Mileena or Sonya just amplifies that

 

[Skkra]

Who is held back because of their character? No one.

Have you guys seen all of those on-stream matches where Tyrant wanted to play Aquaman but the TO was holding a gun to his head and wouldn't let him??? It's just a game. People play who they like. And generally, when you like playing a character, you are naturally more motivated to improve with them.

Remember how unstoppably dominating 16bit was with Frost? Exactly. Then he said fuck it and switched to the shitty character he loved and... I mean, is anyone surprised by the result?

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

1. Sonic Fox no definitley not
2. Theo nope
3. Jupiter nope
4. Forever King counterpicks so no
5. KDZ yes superman is not what he used to be lbsh
6. 16 Bit yes great player
7. Pig of the Hut no
8. Perfect Legend idk maybe
9. Whiteboi no
10. Wound Cowboy yes great player
11. Honeybee slightly
12. Pimpimjim f*** hawkgirl
13. Darth Arma not sure
14. Chris G YES
15. Rico Suave does what he wants AM no BA yes
16. DJT yes amazing player gl is unparalleled except maybe gross
17. Blind Ducky phenomenal player ravens shit makes top 8 mad props
18. Tyrant yes great player
19. MIT deathstroke ummm yeaaaaappp
20. Biohazard nope well maybe 1 or 2 mu's

 

[juicepouch]

kdz was the only superman player to win a major in pre patch. kdz was the only superman to make top 3 at evo. kdz was the only superman to win a major post patch.

your first mistake was comparing any other superman to kdz. youre second mistake was believing there was another superman on kdz level

I actually agree with this, KDZ doesn't really get the kind of credit he should for being the most successful superman and i really don't get why

 

[DarthArma]

 

[Qwark28]

 

[REDRUM]

Do you know that your posts just look different, but you actually say the same thing in every single post? If only bit lived in the east coast...

Some of my fav nrs players are not from NY. ie. MIT, Slips, PPJ, Tyrant etc etc...

 

[Jer]

@Chuckychuck Your statement about @SonicFox5000 is completely wrong, and he isnt carried by the character. He places consistently well in every game he plays (Look at multiple tournament wins with Mileena, a low mid character). Just because he exploits what a character can do, doesn't me he was carried by it. His Batman was really good at the beginning of the games life (played it first hand), but Batgirl was a way better fit for him


@GGA Dizzy I totally forgot about that Kevo thing, and it saddens me that a bunch of people actually have no idea what that means.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

PS: It says a lot that we look at Kenshi and Cyrax as two super broke characters (and they are), yet for the most part, with the exception of Denzell's insane EVO 2013 run, Kabal dominated those characters. I mean, it wasn't even close. Kabal vs. Cyrax sets in tournament were painful to watch.

I hate to have to do this, but "broke" should not be thrown around so easily. At least for me, I would say that a broke character must win every matchup and probably have to do that in dominant fashion. Also they also must have been banned or should be banned. This is just my opinion on what makes someone "broke' and kenshi cyrax and even kabal don't fit all of my criteria. If anything, kabal the only one who could be debated as " broke" but kenshi and cyrax are just OP imo.

 

[Youphemism]

People on TYM need to start backing up their points with evidence, jeez.

@Wetdoba Please don't compare pre patch superman to batgirl. How many superman players were in top 8 that evo compared to how many batgirl players actual place?

There were 3 Supermen in EVO 2013 top 8. There were two Batgirls in EVO 2014 top 8. There were more Superman players at EVO 2013 than there were Batgirl players at EVO 2014. Therefore the ratio of people playing the EVO-winning character to the number of people in the tournament is about the same so Wetdoba's point stands.

 

[Chuckychuck]

@Chuckychuck Your statement about @SonicFox5000 is completely wrong, and he isnt carried by the character. He places consistently well in every game he plays (Look at multiple tournament wins with Mileena, a low mid character). Just because he exploits what a character can do, doesn't me he was carried by it. His Batman was really good at the beginning of the games life (played it first hand), but Batgirl was a way better fit for him


@GGA Dizzy I totally forgot about that Kevo thing, and it saddens me that a bunch of people actually have no idea what that means.

Good point. Do you think he would consistently place as well if he played say The Joker?

 

[coolwhip]

I hate to have to do this, but "broke" should not be thrown around so easily. At least for me, I would say that a broke character must win every matchup and probably have to do that in dominant fashion. Also they also must have been banned or should be banned. This is just my opinion on what makes someone "broke' and kenshi cyrax and even kabal don't fit all of my criteria. If anything, kabal the only one who could be debated as " broke" but kenshi and cyrax are just OP imo.

That's true, though I would actually argue that Kabal and Kenshi are OP, but Cyrax is broke. In the strictest sense of the word, he's the only one who has tools that flat out shouldn't exist, actually "break the rules of the game" (unlike Injustice Scorpion, lol), and are there not by design, but by mistake. Even though he's not as good as Kabal, he's flat out broken.

 

[Jer]

Good point. Do you think he would consistently place as well if he played say The Joker?

This is a terrible argument. Playing the worst character in the game will hold you back really hard, though I don't doubt he would do amazing with him. Injustice is extremely MU based from what I can tell, so once someone picks AM/Babs against Joker, it is unwinnable. Again that argument is terrible

 

[coolwhip]

People on TYM need to start backing up their points with evidence, jeez.

There were 3 Supermen in EVO 2013 top 8. There were two Batgirls in EVO 2014 top 8. There were more Superman players at EVO 2013 than there were Batgirl players at EVO 2014. Therefore the ratio of people playing the EVO-winning character to the number of people in the tournament is about the same so Wetdoba's point stands.

EVO 2013 had three legitimate Superman mains. MIT just picked Batgirl in top 8 for one match-up. It's not the same.

 

[coolwhip]

And by the way, yes, I think Sonic Fox would consistently place if he played a low tier character. Obviously, he wouldn't be nearly as dominant as he is now, but would he be making top 8's more often than not? Yeah, I think so.

In before "he played Harley for 2 months."

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I am going to keep it real here as I have said this before (not on tym). @SonicFox5000 started out with Harley and it didn't go his way and he switched to batgirl and now is having lots of success. I always say 50% character and 50% player. But the thing is, he made a smart character switch to give himself the best chance to win. I can not deny or hate on that and I think players should not be afraid to do that. Second thing, others had the chance to pick up batgirl but they didn't and that isn't his fault. So in conclusion, I just think he found the character for him and rolled with it.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Only on TYM can a random person call out an Evo champion saying that they have no fundamentals. LMAO

 

[Youphemism]

WETDOBA ISN'T SAYING HE HAS NO FUNDAMENTALS. BACK UP YOUR POINTS, JESUS.

This is a terrible argument. Playing the worst character in the game will hold you back really hard, though I don't doubt he would do amazing with him. Injustice is extremely MU based from what I can tell, so once someone picks AM/Babs against Joker, it is unwinnable. Again that argument is terrible

How is it a terrible argument? Look at Chris G with Green Arrow, a fundamentally great player doing very well with a shitter. And he doesn't even practice this game.

EVO 2013 had three legitimate Superman mains. MIT just picked Batgirl in top 8 for one match-up. It's not the same.

Not true, 2 of them only played Superman. And MIT may have used her more in pools, we don't know. Let's just ask him in case this devolves into a baseless argument on both sides @MITDJT

 

[Chuckychuck]

This is a terrible argument. Playing the worst character in the game will hold you back really hard, though I don't doubt he would do amazing with him. Injustice is extremely MU based from what I can tell, so once someone picks AM/Babs against Joker, it is unwinnable. Again that argument is terrible

Interesting... So playing one of the worst characters in the game will hold you back but then we can't go and say playing one of the best characters in the game will carry you forward?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

WETDOBA ISN'T SAYING HE HAS NO FUNDAMENTALS. BACK UP YOUR POINTS, JESUS.


How is it a terrible argument? Look at Chris G with Green Arrow, a fundamentally great player doing very well with a shitter. And he doesn't even practice this game.

Not true, 2 of them only played Superman. And MIT may have used her more in pools, we don't know. Let's just ask him in case this devolves into a baseless argument on both sides @MITDJT

I used her against biohazard to get top 8 and in top 8 against ppj. The rest was mostly Aquaman outside top 8 and desthstroke in top 8.