M2Dave's Friends of the Internet Most Recent Injustice: GAU Tier List

[Icy Black Deep]

I say everything goes in this thread.

 

[Ra Helios]

He's talking about on knockdown. Deathstoke, wonder woman, lex, KF, basically anyone with a 50/50 can vortex ger

That is kinda true but I have trait so they will have to respect which its not that hard for catwoman players to get 1 out. Plus if I delay the catdash it will be more successful of punishing stuff wakeups when read right of course.

The only character that can vortex me for free is probably lex because of trait everything else can be really work around with.

But I understand what he means now. She still a A

 

[Slips]

That is kinda true but I have trait so they will have to respect which its not that hard for catwoman players to get 1 out. Plus if I delay the catdash it will be more successful of punishing stuff wakeups when read right of course.

The only character that can vortex me for free is probably lex because of trait everything else can be really work around with.

But I understand what he means now. She still a A

Your talking about theories when laws have already been established. Doesn't matter if you delay the catdash wakeup or not, many characters vortex her for free. Deny it all you want, but that is a fact.

 

[HoneyBee]

I think Flash is a contender for the 5th spot for sure. But he does have significant holes that keep him from being S-tier (definitely A+ material, and if we broke down into S+ tier he would be S-).

For one, his '50/50' is partially unsafe for some characters (the overhead string wiffs and d12 has terrible range)... (Although I think the overhead can be made safe, he no longer can hit-confirm for the same damage).
He can also have trouble setting this up in the neutral if b22 wiffs, which means he has to play a risky b2-RMS meta game, or an even riskier dash in/Sonic Pound/torpedo thingy - to get in game***

***and this is coming from a zoning perspective, who want to get away from flash.

The character is fast and does so much high burst, corner carrying damage that he can be very overwhelming. His mixups are insane (especially if you do not have a fully invincible wakeup). It still gives me a migraine trying to remember when the Sonic Pounds and ambiguous F3s or f3-cancels are supposed to 'cross-up'. Concentration is so important and it really comes down to punishing Flash really hard when you have the opportunities... And there are more opportunities than people realize (compared to a char like batgirl), but they are easy to miss and will be gone in a ... flash.

Your knowledge of the Flash is pretty impressive, much better than most. Although his B22 only whiffs against Zod lol.

 

[Emperor Eevee]

So you're upset not because you disagree with me, but because you don't like what I'm saying. Got it.

@General M2Dave move Harley to D tier immediately. These Harley up-players have no defense.

Actually its both.

 

[DarthArma]

Your knowledge of the Flash is pretty impressive, much better than most. Although his B22 only whiffs against Zod lol.

zod confirmed top 4...oh wait

 

[JDM]

Looks good.

Catwoman should be B tier though, as should Hawkgirl.

 

[JDM]

She has what, like 2 losing matchups? Zod and Deathstroke? Mixups for days, wing evade, meta-breaking zoning, one of the best d1s in the game, insane chip and plus frames, godlike corner game, and she's a power character. I can't see how she's not at least on par with Nightwing, Raven, and Killer Frost (???), and she's definitely better than Lobo.

GL destroys Hawkgirl.

 

[Relaxedstate]

Your knowledge of the Flash is pretty impressive, much better than most. Although his B22 only whiffs against Zod lol.

Losing to (*your) Flash almost puts me into a non-relaxedstate.... and I can't have that! So I was forced to study that silly MU (Although it is one of my favorites now).

And lol, That is amazing about the b22. Thank Zod I play Zod!

 

[Peckapowa]

She has what, like 2 losing matchups? Zod and Deathstroke? Mixups for days, wing evade, meta-breaking zoning, one of the best d1s in the game, insane chip and plus frames, godlike corner game, and she's a power character. I can't see how she's not at least on par with Nightwing, Raven, and Killer Frost (???), and she's definitely better than Lobo.

Dude, Martian Manhunter beats Hawkgirl liek 8-2, you literally have no options... if you wing evade or mace charge from a far enough distance i can just instant air tele on reaction. Let alone she has ZERO answer for his zoning and trait 3... her dash is horribly punishable and i can just barrage her projectiles in front of her at will (and build way too much meter) and have multiple moves that easily punish any attempt of avoidance... it's horrible... you don't even have to learn the matchup at the highest level to easily win with martian against her.

Zod is like 8-2, instant airs, mb ground zod balls, pistols and ZOD CHARGE beat everything she has...

Sinestro is horrible, Cyborg is horrible, Deathstroke is horrible, GL IS BAD, LEX is definetly bad(he can setup pretty freely and have armor and his probes shut down her options).... I am willing to put money batgirl does okay and probably scorpion. Most of the other characters certainly hold their ground; her strategy is highly linear and revolves around 2 moves essentially... she has nothing without a lifelead and most characters have tools to contain her. Consider Wonder womans instant air demigoddess, batman's trait enables him to turtle, doomsday's belly flop. Characters like superman, lobo, and black adam have to play defensive and bait... but they punish hard enough to keep it close.

She is stupid and has cheap shit but in all honestly so many characters easily counter her...

 

[Peckapowa]

Losing to (*your) Flash almost puts me into a non-relaxedstate.... and I can't have that! So I was forced to study that silly MU (Although it is one of my favorites now).

And lol, That is amazing about the b22. Thank Zod I play Zod!

Once zod establishes his zoning flash has no safe option of exit, like most characters....

 

[Doombawkz]

Bane gets bodied by 3 characters and likely loses 1-5 more matchups on top of that. Flash gets bodied by no characters, may not even lose to any characters, and is one of the 3 characters who bodies Bane.

Having a few dominant matchups does not make up for getting dominated in a few matchups. Consistent viability is more important in tournament play than a complete crapshoot of hoping to avoid all your terribad matchups and possibly land all your GG matchups.

Uh... Bane gets bodied in one MU: Zatanna, whom no one plays and has a hard counter of her own in Aquaman (last I heard).
Flash is debatable, notably because some breakthroughs have been made and it needs further testing. I can't even fathom who the third is but I can say with near confidence you are wrong. Also losing MUs doesn't matter much to Bane since a 6-4 on paper and outplaying an armored beef wagon are two different situations.

To the second point, having numerous 7-3 slants makes up for one hard 7-3 that no one plays. Add also we go even or better with about 75% of the cast, and the few we don't are based on the top representatives and don't necessarily cover the other users of the character or their styles. For the most part, Bane has one of the better MU charts and more than enough options to end a lifebar or even a game in a matter of 4 guesses. A 6-4 with the advantage still has to avoid making any mistakes because the cost is high. I was joking when I said Bane was too high, honestly he could easily be in the top 5 discussion since he has good representation and an omnipresent fraud-factor.

 

[Doombawkz]

I think Flash is significantly better than bane and other characters in that tier... Flash does an unfair amount of damage and deals with zoning exceptionally well

Sounds like someone else I know.

 

[Qwark28]

Best j2 in the game

If you want the best air attacks then play Joker. 5F -1 on block nearly instant J1 and lots of other shit.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Uh... Bane gets bodied in one MU: Zatanna, whom no one plays and has a hard counter of her own in Aquaman (last I heard).
Flash is debatable, notably because some breakthroughs have been made and it needs further testing. I can't even fathom who the third is but I can say with near confidence you are wrong. Also losing MUs doesn't matter much to Bane since a 6-4 on paper and outplaying an armored beef wagon are two different situations.

To the second point, having numerous 7-3 slants makes up for one hard 7-3 that no one plays. Add also we go even or better with about 75% of the cast, and the few we don't are based on the top representatives and don't necessarily cover the other users of the character or their styles. For the most part, Bane has one of the better MU charts and more than enough options to end a lifebar or even a game in a matter of 4 guesses. A 6-4 with the advantage still has to avoid making any mistakes because the cost is high. I was joking when I said Bane was too high, honestly he could easily be in the top 5 discussion since he has good representation and an omnipresent fraud-factor.

Oh god here we go with the theory-crafting again. I would love for any Bane to make Honeybee look anything other than dominant in the matchup in a long set and some top Banes like Max have warned of the dominance a hitbox Zod should have in that matchup as well (but of course you think Bane can wave dash under IAZB's so let's not even go there). I'm very clearly not the only person in this thread who thinks that, at the very least, Flash is definitively better than Bane, among others in that tier potentially too. Feel free to argue with any of them, but I'll stick with my gut that Bane is in the top 10 discussion, not the top 5, and leave it at that.

 

[Doombawkz]

Oh god here we go with the theory-crafting again. I would love for any Bane to make Honeybee look anything other than dominant in the matchup in a long set and some top Banes like Max have warned of the dominance a hitbox Zod should have in that matchup as well (but of course you think Bane can wave dash under IAZB's so let's not even go there). I'm very clearly not the only person in this thread who thinks that, at the very least, Flash is definitively better than Bane, among others in that tier potentially too. Feel free to argue with any of them, but I'll stick with my gut that Bane is in the top 10 discussion, not the top 5, and leave it at that.

Theres no theory crafting involved, pretty much everything I listed was accurate just off of base knowledge. HoneyBee is one person, and I already stated that one top representative isn't indicative of every other person using the character. Likewise, I also stated there have been breakthroughs in the MU and it needs further testing. If you wanna go off of face value, then in fairness you are less credible in this discussion than I am off of seeding points alone.

Second, "Banes like Max" being Max? Because he warns the end-of-days to anything he can't outright beat with the same strategy he beats everyone else with. He warned we might lose to Superman and then proceeded to get a 100% punish on rising grab and now Superman is no problem. The wavedash was confirmed to exist by like 7 or 8 other Banes, so I don't know what to tell you on that one.

Third, most people who think Flash is better than Bane are basing it on the idea that Flash has better MUs, has an easier time with zoning, and so on. All of these are arguable points, and they need further insight rather than simply assuming one side of the other. Bane will always be top 10, because if he takes your first lifebar he loses all momentum or something, right? I'm still curious as to who this third character who bodies Bane is.

Bane could be a top 5 character, its very possible. Results, representation, and just overall Bane has as much chance of winning a tournament as the Flash does.

 

[Rodrigue]

Arghh. Hes mu chart is almost similiar to mines smh. Who throws out unreasonable and irrational mu charts? all my mu are reasonable. Just Because you struggle in a mu doesnt mean that mu is set in stone. There is players that is better then you in the mu you struggle against. My cw not to brag is not on a level where tym or m2dave thinks cw is c material.

Only 5 losing mu. Awesome damage, tech, and one of the best 50/50, best j2 in the game, b3 which evade high mids and overhead and etc make this character a A material.

Level up

Stop telling people to level up. Your catwoman is decent at best. Definitely C material.
And if you wanna prove yourself, go to tournaments instead of trying to make a point with your atrocious english.

 

[Indecisive]

I'm going to need you to stop tagging me whenever this guy says something dumb. I deal with enough idiots at work and don't want to spend all of my time off correcting them here.



Pretty sure I have NEVER seen a Harley player say she is a good character in the last year. In fact, while she has some obvious flaws, I've ONLY seen Harley mains downplay her to the point where Harley players claim godlike status when they win with her (Though in all seriousness, most Harley players are really good).
You just have an abnormally low opinion of the character and the stuff you say about her belies the fact you probably don't know how to use her tools all that well.

____________

That said @all Harley players, while I can't necessarily disagree you have a low tier trait, your trait is considerably better than the other bad/sub-par traits (Joker's, Cyborg's, potentially Batgirl's, Deathstroke's, Shazam's, Killer Frost's and Scorpion's trait are all worse than Harley's).

EDIT:



Not a chance.

On the flip side though, some characters have gotten high level representation and still find themselves on the low end (Green Arrow, Grundy and Ares come to mind) so I doubt Batgirl would have been out of the top 10 even without Sonicfox.

Shazams Trait is insane. Please Apologize.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Theres no theory crafting involved, pretty much everything I listed was accurate just off of base knowledge. HoneyBee is one person, and I already stated that one top representative isn't indicative of every other person using the character. Likewise, I also stated there have been breakthroughs in the MU and it needs further testing. If you wanna go off of face value, then in fairness you are less credible in this discussion than I am off of seeding points alone.

Second, "Banes like Max" being Max? Because he warns the end-of-days to anything he can't outright beat with the same strategy he beats everyone else with. He warned we might lose to Superman and then proceeded to get a 100% punish on rising grab and now Superman is no problem. The wavedash was confirmed to exist by like 7 or 8 other Banes, so I don't know what to tell you on that one.

Third, most people who think Flash is better than Bane are basing it on the idea that Flash has better MUs, has an easier time with zoning, and so on. All of these are arguable points, and they need further insight rather than simply assuming one side of the other. Bane will always be top 10, because if he takes your first lifebar he loses all momentum or something, right? I'm still curious as to who this third character who bodies Bane is.

Bane could be a top 5 character, its very possible. Results, representation, and just overall Bane has as much chance of winning a tournament as the Flash does.

Bane has enough representation that a top Bane should be able to beat the top Flash. Doesn't matter if it's one person taking that character to the limit; there's only one Batgirl doing anything of note too. It's as irrelevant as your "seeding points" and top secret "breakthrough" technology that "needs more testing" are at this point in time. Which is to say very.

I don't believe Max is the only one who's projected that Bane can't do much against iazb's (your wave dash might exist but isn't doing shit to get in on hitbox Zod). I think Bio has said hitbox Zod could be a problem too. I know I'm not the only one yet again and those that are actually play the game rather than just talk about it. And yes, him having to get in a minimum of three times per match (second lifebar included) IF and only if he guesses right on every single knockdown is relevant in that matchup.

And in case your math really is that bad: Flash + Zatanna + Zod = 3. I also wish you'd argue with someone else now. I have very little respect for the talking points of anyone who is just that, all talk. Don't care what all you've found in the lab; it goes out the window when I could probably beat your Bane with Grundy. Let's just agree to disagree on Bane's placement by anywhere from 1-4 positions on the tier list, as if that's so incredibly major a debate that it warrants me wasting yet more time addressing your responses.

 

[Ra Helios]

Stop telling people to level up. Your catwoman is decent at best. Definitely C material.
And if you wanna prove yourself, go to tournaments instead of trying to make a point with your atrocious english.

A material use properly. When people play me they always say she cannot be mid. She has to be mid high. Going to a tournament will prove that I will have the best catwoman but going to a tournament will not prove what rank she fits on the tier list. Because 16bit make consistent top 8. So that wont prove anything. What will prove it is mu numbers which she only lose 5mu and what she is capable of which I already explain it.

I almost beat pig of the hut in his own stream. 8-10. Played playing to win and went almos even 8-10 almost beat cowboy on stream 3-5z Do not go there saying my catwoman is a C. You will just sound ignorant and coming off as a hater.

Now saying I have to prove I have the best cw is going to a tournament I agree. But at the same time my Cw is still phenomenal.


Level up!!!!!!!!

 

[Ra Helios]

If you want the best air attacks then play Joker. 5F -1 on block nearly instant J1 and lots of other shit.

I would say one of the best for joker because you cannot get 46% out of a anti air j2. Look at the whole picture

 

[Ra Helios]

Your talking about theories when laws have already been established. Doesn't matter if you delay the catdash wakeup or not, many characters vortex her for free. Deny it all you want, but that is a fact.

i disagree from what I experience they don't. Lex trait and wonderwoman otg vortex me the most. You can deal with killer frost and other characters. Most of the time when a high quality player play me I always have trait out. That is not going to work most of the time for free

 

[Rodrigue]

Do not go there saying my catwoman is a C. You will just sound retarded, ignorant and coming off as a hater.

The only thing that will make me sound retarded is arguing with you Helios. Ignorant? Coming from you that means a lot. And am I coming off as a hater? Yes because I have nothing better to do with my life than hating on your phenomenally average Catwoman.

But at the same time my Cw is still phenomenal.

Again, phenomenally average.

Level up!!!!!!!!

Level up your arguments and your grammar.

 

[Qwark28]

I would say one of the best for joker because you cannot get 46% out of a anti air j2. Look at the whole picture

Yeah, only 100%.

 

[Phosferrax]

I almost beat pig of the hut in his own stream. 8-10. Played playing to win and went almos even 8-10 almost beat cowboy on stream 3-5z Do not go there saying my catwoman is a C. You will just sound retarded, ignorant and coming off as a hater.

You did all of that online, against players who prioritize offline. It isn't concrete, conclusive proof.