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Those Quotes We All Wish We Could Take Back -- The Forgiveness Thread

Deathstroke is overall better than Batman in almost every way.

Deathstroke has better:
Zoning
Counter-Zoning
Mix-ups
Corner Game
Interactable Control
Anti-Air
Footsies (without trait)
Normals

Batman has better:
Trait
Super

It's debatable who's jump attacks are better. Deathstroke is better than Batman in almost every way. If Batman is top 10, than so is Deathstroke. Either they both are top 10, or neither are top 10, or Deathstroke is while Batman isn't
#YEEAAAAPPP thy king hath spoken the truth
 

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Since people were talking about neutral games, scorpion's neutral game has to be the worse, what the hell does he do to make himself safe? lol and he has no damage even if he lands something :(
I thought about it but then realized he has a virtually safe ex tele and his ji3 still exists lol. That hellfire ~
Edit: id put him bottom 3 ass neutral lol
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
where is the thread ranking the neutral game of characters? that'd be an interesting thread tbh #YEEAAPPP, someone make it
Can't be made because Bane. How do you label a neutral game when theres a character who exists that completely ignores the concept of a neutral game? Do you ignore that and make it vs every other character instead?

Also what does the "neutral game" entail? Attack speed? Range? Hitboxes? Dash distance? Dash speed? This would be an interesting topic, but hard to make.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Question: do you think Scorpion's vortex in MK9 is fuzziable? No extended response, just a Yes or a No for now.

And yet when I say things like this it's "downplaying". Thank you Sonic for explaining that Batgirl isn't auto-win and that people aren't dealing with her properly sometimes :)
No, people say you downplay when you argue her match-ups and tier placement. Fox has her top 2 on his tier list.
 
Can't be made because Bane. How do you label a neutral game when theres a character who exists that completely ignores the concept of a neutral game? Do you ignore that and make it vs every other character instead?

Also what does the "neutral game" entail? Attack speed? Range? Hitboxes? Dash distance? Dash speed? This would be an interesting topic, but hard to make.
true, bane does say screw your neutral lol. But yeah what exactly are the components of a neutral game? very good question indeed #YEEAAPPP
 

coolwhip

Noob
The Sektor analogy aside, falling from 3rd to 12th best is actually a significant deterioration. Deathstroke deteriorated from super top tier to high mid tier.

Characters who are definitely better than Deathstroke are as follows.

- Aquaman
- Bane
- Batgirl
- Batman
- The Flash
- Martian Manhunter
- Sinestro
- Superman
- Wonder Woman
- Zod

I have also excluded characters like Black Adam, Doomsday, and Green Lantern who may be debated.
Batman is not better than Deathstroke and there's no way you can say Wonder Woman is "DEFINITELY" better. She might be, but you can't put her in the "definitely" category. There are 8 characters who are definitely better than Deathstroke: Aquaman, MMH, Batgirl, Zod, Bane, Sinestro, Superman and the Flash. He's at least extremely comparable to any character that might occupy the 9-12 spots.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Deathstroke is overall better than Batman in almost every way.

Deathstroke has better:
Zoning
Counter-Zoning
Mix-ups
Corner Game
Interactable Control
Anti-Air
Footsies (without trait)
Normals

Batman has better:
Trait
Super

It's debatable who's jump attacks are better. Deathstroke is better than Batman in almost every way. If Batman is top 10, than so is Deathstroke. Either they both are top 10, or neither are top 10, or Deathstroke is while Batman isn't
I'd say Deathstroke's jump attacks are better due to a better air to air game.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Time to grade.

Deathstroke is overall better than Batman in almost every way.

Deathstroke has better:
Zoning - incorrect. Batman zones most characters, such as The Flash and Sinestro, a lot more efficiently. Deathstroke's zoning is average at best. Low gunshots have become a poor man's From The Deep post-patch.
Counter-Zoning - true. High gunshots are a very good anti-zoning tool.
Mix-ups - true. Deathstroke's mix ups are better.
Corner Game - even. Batman's corner mix ups are ambiguous while Deathstroke's corner vortex is the only top tier aspect of the character.
Interactable Control - incorrect. Batman's trait creates far superior interactable object control. Everyone who has fought a high level Batman player in the Alley knows so.
Anti-Air - true. Deathstroke's d+2 and sword flip are very good anti-aerial attacks.
Footsies (without trait) - even. Batman has better footsies with trait. Deathstroke has better without.
Normals - true, albeit Deathstroke's normal attacks are not top tier material like Aquaman's, Martian Manhunter's, or Superman's.

Batman has better:
Trait - true. Self-explanatory. Only a complete fool like MIT may argue that Deathstroke's trait is as good as Batman's.
Super - true, albeit super moves are not a game changer in Injustice.


There are four aspects in which Batman is superior. Likewise, there are four aspects in which Deathstroke is superior. One aspect is even. So Deathstroke is not overall better than Batman in "almost every way."
You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Time to grade.



You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
King forgot about wake-ups. Deathstroke has much better wake-ups. Though I agree with you about Batman having better interactable control. And I prefer to have Deathstroke's footsie tools over Batman's, with or without trait.

And there's no way corner game is even. Deathstroke's corner game > Batman's corner game, easily.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
No, people say you downplay when you argue her match-ups and tier placement. Fox has her top 2 on his tier list.
It's not like I say 7-3s are 5-5s or vice versa though, and as I've said before I don't even have the worst mu chart for Batgirl. And when have I ever said she's a lower tier?! I've always said and will continue to say along with the rest of the Batgirl community that she's most definitely top 5. Fox has her top 1 but he was also voted Batgirl upplayer lol
You get a D
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Time to grade.



You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
Wait wouldn't the same argument be used for batman since he doesn't 7-3 anyone and goes 5-5 with the majority of the cast? I'm so confused
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Time to grade.



You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
You graded unfairly, I'm going to have to take my report to the guidance counselor to complain about grade discrepancy.

I'll agree Batman's zoning is better vs some characters, Deathstroke zoning is better against some characters. Zoning is a wash I guess, they're even.

You can't say Batman's interactable control is better just because of one stage. Deathstroke's overall interactable control is better for sure. You really can't toss interactables at Deathstroke, he will just quick shoot you or air shots.

Deathstroke's corner game is by far better, I can't let that even be argued. He has a meterless vortex in the corner that is over 30% that ends in a hard knockdown with sword flip. After the hard knockdown you have to guess high or low or crossover, if you guess wrong you eat another 30+% into a hard knockdown into another guess. This is meterless. Batman's corner vortex needs meter and takes the same amount of damage, also if Batman crosses his opponent over in the corner he lets them out of the corner. Deathstroke keeps you in the corner no matter what option he selects. DS corner game is by far better and cannot be argued.

All downplaying aside, Deathstroke is a much better character than Batman and you need to admit that. I'm not even really downplaying, I actually have been upplaying Batman for months but now I finally have seen the light. So my point is you cannot call Batman top 10 without calling Deathstroke top 10 as well. It's just obvious DS is the better character
 
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Time to grade.



You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
damn I didn't know batman 7 3'd that many characters, I mean they did nerf his b2,3 and bats for the reason of making the matchups he did very well in better for the opposing characters (like shazam for example). Also I think King would be tight with DS if he picked him up #YEEAAPPP
 

coolwhip

Noob
You graded unfairly, I'm going to have to take my report to the guidance counselor to complain about grade discrepancy.

I'll agree Batman's zoning is better vs some characters, Deathstroke zoning is better against some characters. Zoning is a wash I guess, they're even.

You can't say Batman's interactable control is better just because of one stage. Deathstroke's overall interactable control is better for sure. You really can't toss interactables at Deathstroke, he will just quick shoot you or air shots.

Deathstroke's corner game is by far better, I can't let that even be argued. He has a meterless vortex in the corner that is over 30% that ends in a hard knockdown with sword flip. After the hard knockdown you have to guess high or low or crossover, if you guess wrong you eat another 30+% into a hard knockdown into another guess. This is meterless. Batman's corner vortex needs meter and takes the same amount of damage, also if Batman crosses his opponent over in the corner he lets them out of the corner. Deathstroke keeps you in the corner no matter what option he selects. DS corner game is by far better and cannot be argued.

All downplaying aside, Deathstroke is a much better character than Batman and you need to admit that. So my point is you cannot call Batman top 10 without calling Deathstroke top 10 as well. It's just obvious DS is the better character
I know it's besides the point and I definitely agree with your take on their respective corner games, but can't Batman end combos with up-grapple to put the opponent right back in the corner (plus a hard knockdown) if you cross up?
 
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ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Time to grade.



You get a D for DOWN PLAYING. Upon further analysis, however, I will have to add a minus to the D because everyone knows if you used Deathstroke, you would complain about how most of his match ups are 5:5, how few match ups you win 7:3, how hard you have to work to win, how Zod is broken because you cannot win, etc. etc.

In other words, your Batman down playing would be transferred to Deathstroke and you would complain about the same things. Hence your final grade is D-.
Also Deathstroke's wakeups are FAR better than Batman's. So let's just say Batman has better trait, better super. They have even zoning. Then Deathstroke is better at every other aspect of the game
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
I know it's besides the point and I definitely agree with your take on their respective corner games, but can't Batman end combos with up-grapple to put the opponent right back in the corner (plus a hard knockdown) if you cross them up?
If you do that you are getting like mid 20's percent or less lol
 

coolwhip

Noob
Also Deathstroke's wakeups are FAR better than Batman's. So let's just say Batman has better trait, better super. They have even zoning. Then Deathstroke is better at every other aspect of the game
Plus, when you want to determine who's a better character, it's not simply about comparing every single category, because some categories are far more important than others in a game like this. For example, 50/50's are extremely important in Injustice, and Deathstroke having better 50/50's than Batman (who doesn't even have any) far outweighs Batman having say, a better super. Likewise, having strong wake-ups in a game in which your life can be ruined on a knockdown is also extremely important, and Deathstroke shines there as well. Ditto for anti-airs: in a game with very strong jumping, having a very good anti-air move is a game changer. I'd say those 3 categories alone tip the scale in Deathstroke's favor.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Also I think King would be tight with DS if he picked him up #YEEAAPPP
You are not very bright if you truly expect King to use Deathstroke. I guarantee you if King picked up Deathstroke, he would complain about the exact same things that he always criticizes Batman for (i.e., lack of dominant match ups, beats no top tier character, too much work, etc.).

King will stick to Batman (and Martian Manhunter). Despite the constant downplaying, he knows Batman (and Martian Manhunter) get the job done in tournaments.