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"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I have trouble with anyone staying back and zoning, Sinestro and zod come to mind, although patience may pay off in those match ups and not jumping too. Aquaman is less scary to me than some of the rest of the cast, his b2 is 25f, f3 is around 30, and f13 is highly interuptible. Most overheads are twice as much start up as his lows and when full screen don't get too greedy with dashes as he will catch you with FTD. Block low an get him to whiff when you can
Yeah, reasons I hate the Aquaman matchup are basically because his d2 shuts down jumping at him in alot of ranges, though j3 can beat it, and he has superior footsies and zoning. His advancing low goes into 40% combos, ours is b1 crowbar... But once we knock him down, he struggles, so we have that going.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah. I think I'm gonna have to fight Tom Brady in a few weeks so.. Not saying it's favorable but definitely doable... But not favorable
Agreed.
I think the thing I hate most is his d2. I look at something like that, and consider everything else he has going for him, and then I look at how shitty the aerial hitbox on Joker's d2 is along with all of his stuff, and... ugh, why NRS, just... why?
But he is a character that struggles with getting up against Joker, especially in the corner.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
J2 is not your anti AA attack though, you wanna clip an antiair then use J3, I can't believe how this is not the standard yet, noone can anti air a J3 when they don't expect it.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
J2 is not your anti AA attack though, you wanna clip an antiair then use J3, I can't believe how this is not the standard yet, noone can anti air a J3 when they don't expect it.
I agree. I wasn't talking about it generally, more for crossups and such. Aquaman's d2 catches you when it really shouldn't because of the arch that he lifts the trident through, behind his head and such.
I also think you exaggerate j3 a bit. There very much are d2's in this game that beat it out, or at best trade with it, since that stupid d2 buff. It has pretty low active frames, so the window to beat d2's or even trade is really tight.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I almost never miss it, it's easy to determine the distance when you get used to it.
Agreed, it took me a while but now I an usually tell when B3 will hit or not.
That said, I was trying to find some other way to combo or reset when B3 doesn't hit. I'll have to mess with it more when I get back from France.




Also I don't play Tom Brady level Aquamans, but it didn't seem like an unwinnable matchup to me. Feels like a matchup where you have to be really really careful, but not that it's necessarily bad.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I agree. I wasn't talking about it generally, more for crossups and such. Aquaman's d2 catches you when it really shouldn't because of the arch that he lifts the trident through, behind his head and such.
I also think you exaggerate j3 a bit. There very much are d2's in this game that beat it out, or at best trade with it, since that stupid d2 buff. It has pretty low active frames, so the window to beat d2's or even trade is really tight.
I play vs the 2 best wonderwomen in the world, Foxy and Nivek, I also play vs a high lvl doomsday, Metzos.

When I'm not predictable with my jump pattern, not the classic walk back and forth as if you're not gonna jump but in the end will, then I get them to block J3 just fine and in some cases be counterhit by it even with the extremely lowered hitbox and D2 hitbox of WW or the 6f air throw of DD, it's a shame the use of this move still hasn't been figured out, a 9f air normal that has a good amount of advantage since ~frame 15-16 where it's in the unreactable magic frames is very good and top 3 if not top 1 air attacks in the game.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I think part of it is that I'm just alot more predictable with my jumps, but I find that offline it's alot easier for some character's with good d2 to react. Probably just because I'm to easy to get the read on though.
Yeah, I'd say it's up there with DS and GA j3's for a top 3 placing. Not really sure where to rank them though.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I think part of it is that I'm just alot more predictable with my jumps, but I find that offline it's alot easier for some character's with good d2 to react. Probably just because I'm to easy to get the read on though.
Yeah, I'd say it's up there with DS and GA j3's for a top 3 placing. Not really sure where to rank them though.
I'd say the best TBH because Joker's goes so low so it catches AAs, GAs is meh and a bit more defensive due to the weird hitbox while DS can crossup better and gives better meterless damage but ours even keeps us in the air longer and raises our hitbox to avoid some shit
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I'd say the best TBH because Joker's goes so low so it catches AAs, GAs is meh and a bit more defensive due to the weird hitbox while DS can crossup better and gives better meterless damage but ours even keeps us in the air longer and raises our hitbox to avoid some shit
Yeah I can agree with that. I keep hitting j1 instead of j3 to try to dodge interactable when I jump. Dunno where that habit came from. Feels like the hitbox should move more from the animation, but nope... oh well.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Yeah I can agree with that. I keep hitting j1 instead of j3 to try to dodge interactable when I jump. Dunno where that habit came from. Feels like the hitbox should move more from the animation, but nope... oh well.
J3 kind of curls you up into a ball so that's cool

lately J1 seems to be getting some weird use, need to check it out after crowbar or something.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I think part of it is that I'm just alot more predictable with my jumps, but I find that offline it's alot easier for some character's with good d2 to react. Probably just because I'm to easy to get the read on though.
Yeah, I'd say it's up there with DS and GA j3's for a top 3 placing. Not really sure where to rank them though.
Lex J3 says hi. That said Joker's J3 comes out faster.

On a side note, Qwark you mentioned getting to 78% for one bar? Please enlighten me.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Basically any combo into a background bounce is about that, 40% combo into another 40%
I feel it's necessary to clarify that a bunch of characters have wakeups that get them out of this though. Superman, for example, gets out regardless of the whether he adjusts for the crossup because he either gets breath or rising grab. Breath will blow us away, though he should still eat teeth, and rising grab will catch us and get out of the teeth. Flash can flying uppercut out. The list goes on. Not saying it's bad, but there are matchups where this isn't guaranteed and we need to adjust with different tactics. Bait and punish.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Basically any combo into a background bounce is about that, 40% combo into another 40%
Oh you mean with the resets? Ahhhh.... That makes a lot more sense.

I was hoping you'd found some non-sense with the MB B3 interactible thing that was found recently.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I feel it's necessary to clarify that a bunch of characters have wakeups that get them out of this though. Superman, for example, gets out regardless of the whether he adjusts for the crossup because he either gets breath or rising grab. Breath will blow us away, though he should still eat teeth, and rising grab will catch us and get out of the teeth. Flash can flying uppercut out. The list goes on. Not saying it's bad, but there are matchups where this isn't guaranteed and we need to adjust with different tactics. Bait and punish.
Breath is stuffable and you can make it really hard to autocorrect, it's not like it's a free option select between good wakeups, rising grab can be stuffed too.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Breath is stuffable and you can make it really hard to autocorrect, it's not like it's a free option select between good wakeups, rising grab can be stuffed too.
Hmmm. Maybe. But this window to stuff those is insanely small. They both have been good invincibility frames. And that's just a few examples off the top of my head. Alot of characters have something.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Hmmm. Maybe. But this window to stuff those is insanely small. They both have been good invincibility frames. And that's just a few examples off the top of my head. Alot of characters have something.
Breath is very easy to stuff, it's the air grab thats a abit difficult.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Breath is very easy to stuff, it's the air grab thats a abit difficult.
Yeah thinking back I think I'm wrong on breath. What's annoying about that is it's glitchy with how it tracks. Goes one direction and blasts you in the other even if you cross up properly sometimes... annoying.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
How do you guys typically get in on opponents? My j3 gets AAed more often than it connects, I feel his biggest flaw is starting momentum
Getting in is the hard part with Joker in alot of MUs because his mobility is crappy. You have to keep your opponent guessing, and it's different in every matchup. No offense at all, but I have heard from GGA commentators that you're a bit predictable with the j3's, which is probably why you're struggling. I am alot of the time as well, and people that play me often tend to blow me up for it. Just have to adapt your playstyle to be more patient, something I'm working on as well.
Sometime you can rely on dash cancel mind games with the gun and tossing around teeth from a distance for meter and as a threat. This isn't always an option though. Good zoners like Zod, Deathstroke, and Sinestro force you to block and dash your way in for the most part. You can mix in guns at times to keep them honest, but you really need to know the frame data alot of the time and it can be risky.
Something I like to do is get within sweep/jump distance and just throw far teeth at them. It's punishable if they make the read, but not really on reaction. If they try to catch you, push block them into the teeth. What most people will do, though, is play cautious and try to jump. Then you've got them; catch them with a j3 if they jump back and go into the d2 xx mb RLG combo, or if they jump at you, you should be able to get them with a d2 on reaction into a combo ending in crowbar for OTG setups.
And don't forget that going in isn't always the best option. Sometimes you just wanna sit back and zone with gunshots and teeth. Again, it all depends on the matchup. What gives you trouble specifically?