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General/Other - Killer XL Killer Leatherface Discussion Thread

G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
thlityoursloat said:
Are BS cancels supposed to be very negative on block? I tried doing BS343 against Kitana set to reversal throat slash and I never ever got to block.
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Yup. BS4c is best for mixing up the end of a combo after Chain Sparks. Force the opponent to react to the BS4, and cancel it to continue pressure with 22 or some other move.

BS4c can't be used mid-string to make it safe. You won't be pulling Johnny Cage or Liu Kang style cancels with it.

Another use of cancels is BS1c to throw off the opponents block timing. Cancel just before contact, wait a tick' then go into BS1 again. If they block then you rebound into safety, if they try to attack you catch them with the second BS1. You can do this repeatedly to keep them guessing. If they try to jump over a BS1 you can cancel and quickly BS1 in the opposite direction to catch them on the way down.

Just remember that the cancels are a fake-out/mix-up option, as well as a shield against projectiles. They're not for safety and speed.
 
Reactions: jmt
Hidan

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
I think BS2 is to be used only to lock someone in the corner as an ender to a combo that begun with the restand, or an OH setup (and even that is debatable)

In neutral b2 is safer, faster, with almost the same dmg, hitbox is enough to bring jumpers to the ground (and not whiffing the next 1-2 hits) and you don't have to worry being counter poked on hit

BS2 Ex can be blown up by either backdash or armor, it's more of a mindgame to leatherface than his opponent. If BS1 wasn't so good, these things would be intolerable
 
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G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
Hidan said:
Killer is that one variation that doesn't let you even think of the other two after a while. Perfect design
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Killer is exceptional at what it is meant to do, extremely fun to play, but has sufficient weaknesses to make it not feel overpowered.

I want to get into Pretty Lady, but my other main is Erron Black Gunslinger and that covers my ranged needs. I just don't see a reason to go for post-nerf Butcher as Ive used Killer from the start.

What I love is how well they captured the "maniac with a chainsaw" feel. Even the moveset feels weighty and uneven, and Leatherface is so unhinged. It's just pure entertainment.
 
Hidan

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
Ghosty1981 said:
I want to get into Pretty Lady, but my other main is Erron Black Gunslinger and that covers my ranged needs. I just don't see a reason to go for post-nerf Butcher as Ive used Killer from the start.
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the reason you (and everyone else) don't see for playing butcher is that one of his powers is the weakness of killer and pretty lady: defensive options. He has a variety of 3 different armor moves, where each and every one of them is much better than the ones killer and PL have, plus his combos don't need bars most of the time, so that's plenty of armor for one variation

But, yes I too wouldn't suggest pretty lady over gunslinger for various reasons
 
G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
Hidan said:
the reason you (and everyone else) don't see for playing butcher is that one of his powers is the weakness of killer and pretty lady: defensive options. He has a variety of 3 different armor moves, where each and every one of them is much better than the ones killer and PL have, plus his combos don't need bars most of the time, so that's plenty of armor for one variation

But, yes I too wouldn't suggest pretty lady over gunslinger for various reasons
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That is actually the best sell for Butcher I've seen.

My biggest frustration with Killer is the lack of defense. His armored moves are so slow and unsafe that they can be blown up even by relatively slow pressure. I didn't realize that Butcher has such an advantage in this department.

Better defense isn't something that jumps off the page for me when looking at a character, as combos and speed are easier to spot in the training room.

Thanks for the tip!
 
HappyPow

HappyPow

Mortal
Anbu said:
Don't know if this is know but here is a 55% 2 bars and 64% 2 1/2 bars.

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Waaa I've been killed... I've been labbing Killer for more than 1 hour in the corner, one goal : Get at least 50% (Starter F12/ End with F2) + BS4 14%. (2bars)
So great I've found 50% (and a ~51-52% but I Can't get d3 BD4) + 14% and a 52% (maybe aroud 53-54% with D3 BD4) by ending with DB1. Ok so that sheet is really easy to do but damn 55% mate -_- I'm ruined. Is it sill possible and all, I can't hit it (only tried 4 times but still)?
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I'm a believer in Pretty Lady. The execution on iaSaws is quite difficult, but he's a very strong keepaway character.

Once they start trying to run in between projectiles (like, say if they're cornered), B2 will catch them. It's a very strong normal for his kit in this variation.
 
Hidan

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
Rude said:
I'm a believer in Pretty Lady. The execution on iaSaws is quite difficult, but he's a very strong keepaway character.

Once they start trying to run in between projectiles (like, say if they're cornered), B2 will catch them. It's a very strong normal for his kit in this variation.
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B2 and 22 should be included in his variation moves list
 
G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
HappyPow said:
Waaa I've been killed... I've been labbing Killer for more than 1 hour in the corner, one goal : Get at least 50% (Starter F12/ End with F2) + BS4 14%. (2bars)
So great I've found 50% (and a ~51-52% but I Can't get d3 BD4) + 14% and a 52% (maybe aroud 53-54% with D3 BD4) by ending with DB1. Ok so that sheet is really easy to do but damn 55% mate -_- I'm ruined. Is it sill possible and all, I can't hit it (only tried 4 times but still)?
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What combos are you using in the corner to get 50% + 14%?

I honestly gave up working on such high damage corner Combos because the timing was so strict and the risk from dropping so high, but if you have some reliable ones I'd love to see them.

A really fun 50-50 type game in the corner is b12(OH Low)/b1bd4(OH Sparks)/f3bd4(Low Sparks). The b1 is slow, but if you hit it as soon as you can after a hard knockdown when they don't have meter you can catch them on wake-up. If you go b12 you get to go again, and if you catch them with sparks you have an easy F2 set-up again. The simplest ender I use is f21d2 NJP 22db1 for ~32% and a hard knockdown.

This isn't a flawless set-up, and it would be easy to punish if the opponent is good at reading, but it is consistent and easy, and puts the pressure on them to react correctly. I should point out that the ender I listed above works anywhere on the screen, but outside of the corner you have to do a quick run after the NJP to catch the 22; if you use Killer, though, this should be second nature.

Again this isn't super-tech, just basic ideas for pinning them in a series of hard knockdowns and quick reads. If Killer has one thing going for him it's ridiculous damage off of react-and-punish, so any little tactic to keep them guessing can lead to mistakes and 50% of their health gone in an an instant.

Gonna go lab the corner again now!
 
jmt

jmt

Kombatant
HappyPow said:
Waaa I've been killed... I've been labbing Killer for more than 1 hour in the corner, one goal : Get at least 50% (Starter F12/ End with F2) + BS4 14%. (2bars)
So great I've found 50% (and a ~51-52% but I Can't get d3 BD4) + 14% and a 52% (maybe aroud 53-54% with D3 BD4) by ending with DB1. Ok so that sheet is really easy to do but damn 55% mate -_- I'm ruined. Is it sill possible and all, I can't hit it (only tried 4 times but still)?
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That combo you quoted from anbu is really unreliable. Don't even think about landing it consistently.
 
jmt

jmt

Kombatant
HappyPow said:
Yo what is the best amount of damages meterless/1bar (F12), mid-screen and in the corner? (Killer)
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My bnb mid screen is:

F12, bs1ex, f1, 12, sparks, j2, 4, db2

Or

F12, bs1ex, f1, 12, sparks, rc, f12, bs2 (for restand)

Or

F12, bs1ex, f1, 12, sparks, f2, bs4 (unblockable mixup)
 
HappyPow

HappyPow

Mortal
Finally it is kinda hard to hit my 50% + 14% (I'm going to record a 49%+14%, is it still good? The 50% is the same but with a JiP after the spark then F2 but it doesn't connect everytime. I don't understand the timing ---> hitting hit 1time on 10; sometimes the delayed JiP doesn't connect, sometimes the F2 doesn't connect). And by the way, is there any easy way to hit D3 BD4 consistantly?
 
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G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
HappyPow said:
Yo what is the best amount of damages meterless/1bar (F12), mid-screen and in the corner? (Killer)
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Not sure about meterless, but midscreen you can easily and consistently get 34% + 14% with f12BS1ex NJP rc 12 bd4 f2 BS4.

There are a couple of ways to get 1% or 2% more, I believe, but for me they are less consistent. In the corner you can easily hit f12 instead of 12 after the NJP and without the rc. I also recall you can squeeze an f1 in after the NJP and before the 12, but it only adds 1% for the trouble.

I like my bnbs to be as simple as possible 'cause I'm not a robot and I often play with heavy distractions. :p
HappyPow said:
Finally it is kinda hard to hit my 50% + 14% (I'm going to record a 49%+14%, is it still good? The 50% is the same but with a JiP after the spark then F2 but it doesn't connect everytime. I don't understand the timing ---> hitting hit 1time on 10; sometimes the delayed JiP doesn't connect, sometimes the F2 doesn't connect). And by the way, is there any easy way to hit D3 BD4 consistantly?
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Not seeing the Combo. ???

As for inconsistency, that just seems to be an issue with Leatherface in general. His moves seem to have weird hit zones, and the slightest change in distance or opponent size changes the combo.

I also play Erron Black - Gunslinger and I never have a problem just picking up a new Combo and connecting it consistently. I believe the nature of LFs moves just makes them less consistent.
 
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HappyPow

HappyPow

Mortal
Do you want to see the combo? Then watch the video on Leatherface ;) (It is not in it BUT it is the 49% with his EXDF4 that does 50% with the jip, sorry I do not record stuff that I do not hit consistantly ; like the combos I performed with D3 Sparks because it happens to rarely, I don't understand why it does BF4 19 times on 20 + it seems that the 50% is a frame perfect on the jip F2 so there is no point).
I do not agree, Leatherface is NOT inconsistent at all in his execution. Except for the NjP in général, you've got the time to do a coffee, smoke a cigarette, poop and come back to do continue your combo ;) (and in fact it is pretty much easy to hit the njp)
 
G

Ghosty1981

Dog will hunt!
HappyPow said:
Do you want to see the combo? Then watch the video on Leatherface ;) (It is not in it BUT it is the 49% with his EXDF4 that does 50% with the jip, sorry I do not record stuff that I do not hit consistantly ; like the combos I performed with D3 Sparks because it happens to rarely, I don't understand why it does BF4 19 times on 20 + it seems that the 50% is a frame perfect on the jip F2 so there is no point).
I do not agree, Leatherface is NOT inconsistent at all in his execution.
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I didn't see that you had made a new thread. I'll check it out. Thanks!

As for consistency, there are plenty of cases where he is prblematic. Pretty Lady is a different character against females, for example. Also, Jacqui can't be caught by BS1 after df3ex 3 f12 but most other females can. The corner combos can also be inconsistent.
 
HappyPow

HappyPow

Mortal
Ghosty1981 said:
I didn't see that you had made a new thread. I'll check it out. Thanks!

As for consistency, there are plenty of cases where he is prblematic. Pretty Lady is a different character against females, for example. Also, Jacqui can't be caught by BS1 after df3ex 3 f12 but most other females can. The corner combos can also be inconsistent.
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df3?
 
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