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General/Other - Butcher XL Butcher Leatherface General Discussion Thread

Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Bad Genez said:
So, I'm not super knowledgable about frame data, but his f4 restands and has 15 frames of advantage on hit, so if you used that in the corner does that guarantee a follow up 2 or 22 string considering 2 starts in 14, and 22 in 9?
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No, because although f.4 is very plus, you can't combo it into other normals because no such string exists. Normals only combo into normals if the opponent is juggled in the air or if it is an actual string in the move list.

You can cancel f.4 into bd.4 though, and then you are guaranteed anything you want (in the corner) because that's the property of bd.4. It's early but I think it's safe to say bd.4 is a super important part of his corner game in all variations for that reason. So you had the right idea, but it's with bd.4, not f.4.

But since you said you're not super knowledgable about frame data, you wouldn't look at the startup of 2,2 because that only tells you the startup of the last move in the string. We don't care about the startup of the any move after the first, we're concerned with the first move, which has a startup of 14. If you land the first hit in a string, opponent is already in hitstun, so the rest of it is going to come out fine.
 
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Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
LEather face has a vortex in butcher btw after a restand with the spark do, b2
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I found a dirty little trick with this. After the 2nd b.2 in a combo, the opponent can block regardless of how plus you are (since otherwise it would be an infinite) and any decent player will block in this situation basically 100% of the time, since they're like minus infinity. So you can exploit that with the d.4 xx dbf.1 tick throw immediately after the final b.2 hits.

Example (corner): b.2 ~ 1,2,2 ~ 2,2 xx bd.4 ~ b.2 ~ d.4 xx dbf.1 = 36.6%


This optimizes damage as opposed to just ending a combo with a special (see below) because the tick throw is in it's own combo, so doesn't scale.

b.2 ~ 1,2,2 ~ 2,2 xx bd.4 ~ s.4 xx db.3 = 32%

Obviously isn't not too easy to start a combo with b.2, but you can start whatever combo you get, then cancel into the sparks restand first, then use that advantage to sneak in b.2, and b.2 again. Now tick throw. I bet this is going to be the standard corner tech once everyone figures him out. Butcher is all about cornering the opponent and bullying them with super plus hitstuns.
 
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EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Trauma_and_Pain said:
I found a dirty little trick with this. After the 2nd b.2 in a combo, the opponent can block regardless of how plus you are (since otherwise it would be an infinite) and any decent player will block in this situation basically 100% of the time, since they're like minus infinity. So you can exploit that with the d.4 xx dbf.1 tick throw immediately after the final b.2 hits.

Example (corner): b.2 ~ 1,2,2 ~ 2,2 xx bd.4 ~ b.2 ~ d.4 xx dbf.1 = 36.6%


This optimizes damage as opposed to just ending a combo with a special (see below) because the tick throw is in it's own combo, so doesn't scale.

b.2 ~ 1,2,2 ~ 2,2 xx bd.4 ~ s.4 xx db.3 = 32%

Obviously isn't not too easy to start a combo with b.2, but you can start whatever combo you get, then cancel into the sparks restand first, then use that advantage to sneak in b.2, and b.2 again. Now tick throw. I bet this is going to be the standard corner tech once everyone figures him out. Butcher is all about cornering the opponent and bullying them with super plus hitstuns.
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thats if they block low
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Here's a little piece of Butcher neutral I've been working on. You can make df2 jail (no gap!) off of f12 string if you hit the 2 at max (or close to max) distance. This is also the distance at which f12df4 and f12b2 become pretty much safe. It's also about the same max distance that bf3 hits at (just outside jump range). If they block the df2, you are +2 and they get pushed back. This is a good spot to do b12. Also a good time to throw out an ex df2 since they think it's their turn.

f12 is probably his best string to use in neutral, even when the f1 whiffs. Once they see that they can't interrupt df2 every time, you can start using it a little more often. Mixing it up with df4 is probably a good safe-ish option as well.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Pterodactyl said:
I can see situations where that'd be handy.

I still think it'd be better to just ease your way into EX Jump Bop range because you can get a combo and even a restand out it.
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It's another thing the opponent has to think about from that range. The more you can get them to respect your options, the more doors open to you.
 
Rip Torn

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Rip Torn said:
Here's a little piece of Butcher neutral I've been working on. You can make df2 jail (no gap!) off of f12 string if you hit the 2 at max (or close to max) distance. This is also the distance at which f12df4 and f12b2 become pretty much safe. It's also about the same max distance that bf3 hits at (just outside jump range). If they block the df2, you are +2 and they get pushed back. This is a good spot to do b12. Also a good time to throw out an ex df2 since they think it's their turn.

f12 is probably his best string to use in neutral, even when the f1 whiffs. Once they see that they can't interrupt df2 every time, you can start using it a little more often. Mixing it up with df4 is probably a good safe-ish option as well.
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Just to add an option select to this:

The option select notation is f12df2b2 (do inputs very quickly)

On whiff you get f12b2

On block/hit you get f12df2

This is good because while you are trying to do f12df2 at max (ish) range, you might whiff, leaving you wide open. However, now the full string will come out and that b2 in f12b2 covers even further distance than f12. It's literally half-screen. And that string is also safe from max range like that. On block/hit, you will get the gapless f12df2 (the 1 is whiffing) and you will be at +2 on block or good oki position with HKD on hit.
 
Manouschka

Manouschka

Noob
I haven't seen a lot of corner combo posts about Butcher, but the best one I have so far is 39% with one bar. Pretty easy to do and does not require any specific situation for it to work. It starts with 1,2 so potentially fast enough to beat your opponent's attack. So, 12 - BD4 - B2 - F21 - EX DF4 - NJP - B1U2 - 12 - DB3. Do you guys think it's good?
 
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