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Why Liu Kang Is Broken: A Breakdown

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Yea liu and Jax are stupid af atm. Also very clear since post patch Online (in KL especially) I run into those two 90% of the time and they just casually hit buttons that cover most everything while I’m trying to outplay all that nonsense
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
As for this scorpion talk I use him and frost. Frankly he’s the same as he was before the nerf to me. People still get hit by my TP because they simply DONT BLOCK. Besides he never had a 9f mid/anti air/starter/stagger/safe attack but yknow, that’s fine to leave in.
 

Wigy

There it is...
That Johnny winning is a bill.

The f4 whiffing issue is almost a non thing.

You need to be stand blocking.

Against any good Liu Kang is barely ever works, they can just see you try it, not finish the string and destroy you with low pokes grabs b3 and f4 staggers

The 12 thing is proper help for Johnny but that doesn't help that Liu Kang has 7 KBs and just better tools.

Johnny can challenge his neutral well though.

It's probably closest to 5-5. Issue is Liu Kang is a complete potato and Johnny is probably one of the most honest characters in the game.
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Mid teleport made him broke? How?

Like, the character is the exact same.
Right after the patch you made a thread about how Scorpion is now trash that his teleport was nerfed. But now you're saying he's the same >_> Make up your mind, guy.
Anyway, I thik Liu is OK, just needs his flying kick start-up reduced so you can react to it from 75% of the screen.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Yea liu and Jax are stupid af atm. Also very clear since post patch Online (in KL especially) I run into those two 90% of the time and they just casually hit buttons that cover most everything while I’m trying to outplay all that nonsense
I like to differentiate jax and lui. It's TRUE jax turns into lui with heated arms however heat is a resource that you have to manage. Agaisnt a jax with max heat theres a couple options that you clearly steer away from. I know 90% of the time heated jax wants to forward throw or one of his overhead options you can game plan that. For me that's the distinction, lui is lui kinda potato jax you can play a sound prevent on
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
As for this scorpion talk I use him and frost. Frankly he’s the same as he was before the nerf to me. People still get hit by my TP because they simply DONT BLOCK. Besides he never had a 9f mid/anti air/starter/stagger/safe attack but yknow, that’s fine to leave in.
Scorpion is not the same. I can now react with ducking to his teleport, or move without blocking. He's definitely not the same, but surely not trash. He's right where he needs to be.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Scorpion is not the same. I can now react with ducking to his teleport, or move without blocking. He's definitely not the same, but surely not trash. He's right where he needs to be.
I think when you put the move into perspective it being an instant air able fullscreen mid launcher that tracks. WHO WANTS A MOVE LIKE THIS?
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I like to differentiate jax and lui. It's TRUE jax turns into lui with heated arms however heat is a resource that you have to manage. Agaisnt a jax with max heat theres a couple options that you clearly steer away from. I know 90% of the time heated jax wants to forward throw or one of his overhead options you can game plan that. For me that's the distinction, lui is lui kinda potato jax you can play a sound prevent on
Jax is still stupid even without arms and it’s not hard for him to get them. Liu Kang is largely more busted but Jax has some stupid crap too. Those characters play themselves
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Scorpion is not the same. I can now react with ducking to his teleport, or move without blocking. He's definitely not the same, but surely not trash. He's right where he needs to be.
He’s the same in terms of how a lot of us run him. You can’t duck a TP being used while you’re whiffing. That’s my point. I don’t just toss it out there i usually use it off of a read or bait. Thing is even if I had a bad read and they blocked I still get combo punished.

Besides I’m not even concerned with the nerf. But I’m not about to let people deflect the topic at hand with scorpion talk (been happening in various places) trying to divert attention away from liu kang. Nah that character is poison lol
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Jax is still stupid even without arms and it’s not hard for him to get them. Liu Kang is largely more busted but Jax has some stupid crap too. Those characters play themselves
F3 isnt f4 his staggers arnt safe and he cant get in for free. I get what you mean but jax isnt aids to deal with like lui. Kang is legitimate broke jax is very good with CLEAR FLAWS we shouldn't just ignore the obvious issues of blacks b22 and f4 geras up3 and kabals safety. Soooooo much more dirt going on outside of jax
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Why in a neutral heavy game do people belive fullscreen Fast tracking mid launchers make any sense? Why are we still defending it. If you were good with scorpian you still are was a great change by NRS
Because they enjoy having as few even (or worse) matchups as possible. People don't want to work for the neutral, they want to press a button and win.

Honestly if anyone thinks 9f advancing mids into damage are good for the game, or teleports that work as get out of jail free cards at no disadvantage, or anything that bypasses neutral, they aren't thinking. Top players not withstanding because obviously they have money riding on this and they'll play the most broken shit obviously.
 

Dante

Noob
Imo scorpion and sub are the most well designed chars in the game.
Because they enjoy having as few even (or worse) matchups as possible. People don't want to work for the neutral, they want to press a button and win.
Was about to write sth similar. The game makes you want to abuse all the stupid shit. 1 Button supers full armored super fast maybe fullscreen and some hard to punish for 32%+ are a big example.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Jax is still stupid even without arms and it’s not hard for him to get them. Liu Kang is largely more busted but Jax has some stupid crap too. Those characters play themselves
Jax has to manage resources to zone you and to actually deal any damage, that and his staggers are objectively worse. f3 is unsafe at 2 of its 3 points and f2 only really has 3 mixup options with the low being unsafe and the OH potentially unsafe.
His grab game is objectively worse because his auto shimmy is poor and there are no grab tech KBs so you can just tech to your heart's content, and because of his low damage without KBs you can even fish for cheap d2 kbs with not much risk (he gets 11-14%, you get 30-50%).
Seriously, I'm not saying Jax is bad, but I don't know where all the comparisions between Luis and Jax are coming from, Jax has far fewer options, has genuine weaknesses and bad MUs and far more counterplay. Luis just does everything.
f3 also isn't advancing, so to set up his f3 stagger game he has to condition you with his other mids.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
We need to compile a list of dumb shit that simply needs to go from Kabal's, Erron's and Cetrion's fullscreen tracking Fatal Blows to every advancing F4 that leads to a launcher, Kabal's B1 being a mid,etc.
Just let NRS know that we don't want 9f advancing mids fullscreen supers and other nonsense anymore.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
We need to compile a list of dumb shit that simply needs to go from Kabal's, Erron's and Cetrion's fullscreen tracking Fatal Blows to every advancing F4 that leads to a launcher, Kabal's B1 being a mid,etc.
Just let NRS know that we don't want 9f advancing mids fullscreen supers and other nonsense anymore.
Theres nothing wrong with advancing normals or even 9fram launchers. Dont let kang's f4 make you blind to the issue with it. If it didn't have the up3 gap it would be fine, could make f4 stagger unsafe. There are plenty of sensible changes you could do for the character. As far as FB only broken one is jax, everyone else is more of a nuisance than anything else. I think they just forgot about kabal honestly
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Great video. Thanks for compiling everything people have been saying.

I don't understand how people can say, "Stop bitching about Kang, he's fine." It's clear he's broken in the current meta. And don't give me the bullshit line "Well if they nerf him, some other character will just fill that void." LOOK AT HIM. He has weaknesses, yes, but his strengths are off the fucking charts. You barely have to tweak him to make him fair, and he'll still be really good. Make 12 zero on block, and adjust his fucking KB potential.

I can't fucking stand having the upper hand in a Kang match, playing my ass off, and then it's KB, KB, FB, I'm dead. I don't even attempt to tech his throws anymore. Fuck that shit.