What's new

Why isn't cartwheel punishable on block?

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
You can trade with her projectile without being knocked down is all I said and that's true. I wasn't arguing reaction times or reading your opponent in relation to her rings and didn't mention them in my post at any point.

My point is that the assertion that Noob's projectile should have better recovery than Sonya's rings is not sound, I'm not complaining or arguing against Noob's projectiles in their current form, they're fine at present. They do not need a buff in recovery is all I'm saying.

I mentioned Scorpion's spear to accent my point about Noob.
Like I said, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I agree with you. Just simply adding my input. And I know you didn't say that, it was just more evedence that Sonya has no need for a projectile that good.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Like I said, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I agree with you. Just simply adding my input. And I know you didn't say that, it was just more evedence that Sonya has no need for a projectile that good.
Sonya's Energy Ring - slow start up but fast recovery.

Noob's Shadow Tackle - fast start up but slow recovery.

It's balanced. I would prefer them to switch properties though XD
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Sonya's Ex Cartwheel gets beat by cross overs/njp, Kabal's Ex Nomad Dash rarely gets beat.

Sonya's Ex Cartwheel blocked can be stuffed by D1 then cross over (if apply) to end her pressure, Kabal gets full combo punish because he can cancel his Nomad Dash - two different scenarios. If Kabal didn't have his Nomad Dash cancel ability then his Dash would probably be the same as Sonya's current blocked property.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Because Noob Saibot's projectile is the size of a human, knocks the opponent down and hits overhead, Sonya's projectile can be easily jumped over, ducked or traded with by other projectiles without knocking the opponent down.
But Noob's clones are easily hopped over...I think if anything, the size of them make them easier to jump over.
 
Like I said, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I agree with you. Just simply adding my input. And I know you didn't say that, it was just more evedence that Sonya has no need for a projectile that good.
Kabal has no need for a reset and a good rushdown game.

Cyrax has no need for 80% combos for 1 bar.

Jax has no need for a corner 140+% combo.

Kenshi has no need for a lot of armored attacks.

See my point?
 

Espio

Kokomo
But Noob's clones are easily hopped over...I think if anything, the size of them make them easier to jump over.
Please explain to me how a projectile that is way bigger than Sonya's rings is easier to avoid? Because it makes no sense to me.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Wait what? How is the fact that they are huge make them easier to avoid? That's like saying Cyrax's net would be better if you could duck it.
They're really not difficult to hop over, I do it all the time. It's really a gamble for him to use at times due to the horrendous recovery. Cyrax's net has the hitbox of an 18 wheeler, that thing can hit your pinkie toe and net you. The clones do not have anywhere near that big of a hitbox. Anyways, I feel like we're getting really off topic here with her rings, I'm just stating that I don't feel that she should have such a strong projectile given her other strengths.
You can duck Sonya's Energy Rings. Even Sub-Zero can slide underneath her projectile.
Didn't know that, SZ has such odd properties on his slide.
 

Espio

Kokomo
And I know you didn't say that, it was just more evedence that Sonya has no need for a projectile that good.
Sonya's projectile is good, but it's not broken, it's not overpowered, the damage is reasonable, what is the problem with it?




Does Raiden need his teleport to be as fast as it is?

Does Kenshi need all that armor?

Does Johnny Cage need those frame traps?

Does Kabal need machine gun zoning?

Does Cyrax need those high damage unescapable resets?

Nobody NEEDS anything, but these tools are what help make these characters good and some of the best in the game.

Sonya's projectile isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things,
 

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
They're really not difficult to hop over, I do it all the time. It's really a gamble for him to use at times due to the horrendous recovery. Cyrax's net has the hitbox of an 18 wheeler, that thing can hit your pinkie toe and net you. The clones do not have anywhere near that big of a hitbox.

Didn't know that, SZ has such odd properties on his slide.
What if you are closing in and guess wrong though you hop over it and get upshadowed. Dive kick doesn't go through that, so it's a gamble either way. It's not as big of a hitbox as the net but it's not that far off, I've been tagged by it 2/3 of max jump height. No normal height projectile would do that.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
You are not playing it right. When Sonya does her Cartwheel and you blocked it, you can D1 her first before she can D1 you back. Also, you need to watch Sonya's meter because she can Ex Cartwheel through your D1 mashing. Fishing for Sonya's Cartwheel depends on your spacing especially on wake up, you can cross over so it will whiff OR you can step right outside sweep distance and NJP combo punish her Cartwheel. Players especially here are making Sonya's Ex Cartwheel so overrated crying out for a nerf or remove armor, it's ridiculous. Online Sonya is a nightmare, I will admit that. Those things that Death was trying in those tournaments on stream got Sonya's Cartwheel blown up, it's not good as people think. Good players know when to use Ex Cartwheel effectively, online scrubby players abuse Ex Cartwheel like no tomorrow.

Don't you play Kitana? She can perfectly fish for Sonya's Cartwheel up close and zoning. Kitana can even punish Sonya's Dive Kick (all angles) with 2,1,Ex Fan/Fan Lift even online but you need quick reactions.
I'm not talking about me, and I'm not complaining. I'm talking about Sonya and dispelling your points. If you're fishing for an NJP punish, she can dash up and AA you. I know you can d1 her before she can poke you, but you can armor cartwheel through that.

Also, getting your cartwheel blown up depends on the Sonya player. If you're at a distance that you can whiff punish it with something like Kitana's 2,1 or f2,1, it means Sonya shouldn't be throwing the cartwheels out.
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Kabal has no need for a reset and a good rushdown game.

Cyrax has no need for 80% combos for 1 bar.

Jax has no need for a corner 140+% combo.

Kenshi has no need for a lot of armored attacks.

See my point?
Does Raiden need his teleport to be as fast as it is?

Does Kenshi need all that armor?

Does Johnny Cage need those frame traps?

Does Kabal need machine gun zoning?

Does Cyrax need those high damage unescapable resets?

Nobody NEEDS anything, but these tools are what help make these characters good and some of the best in the game.

Sonya's projectile isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things,

Yes, yes we can do that all day.

Just making a point cuz, ya know... This is a Sonya thread.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Nooo- ok yes. I'm comparing both being similar outside of hitconfirmability.
They arnt the same.

The are both safe on block, launch and -3.

But there is absolutly no hit confirming on block with the cartwheel, you can just throw that thing out, and its no big deal.

And i woulnd't have a problem with the cartwheel being safe if you couldn't string it into F1 MS.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
I'm not talking about me, and I'm not complaining. I'm talking about Sonya and dispelling your points. If you're fishing for an NJP punish, she can dash up and AA you. I know you can d1 her before she can poke you, but you can armor cartwheel through that.

Also, getting your cartwheel blown up depends on the Sonya player. If you're at a distance that you can whiff punish it with something like Kitana's 2,1 or f2,1, it means Sonya shouldn't be throwing the cartwheels out.
I thought you were one of those people complaining, I'm sorry if I sounded rude - it's just whiners that irritate me XD
 

Espio

Kokomo
There's nothing wrong with Sonya's projectile, it does standard projectile damage, it has respectable recovery, it can be ducked.

What is the problem with it? I'm willing to hear the argument.
 

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
They arnt the same.

The are both safe on block, launch and -3.

But there is absolutly no hit confirming on block with the cartwheel, you can just throw that thing out, and its no big deal.

And i woulnd't have a problem with the cartwheel being safe if you couldn't string it into F1 MS.
They aren't the same, roundhouse is hit confirming and overhead, cartwheel is not hit confirming but not overhead. So each one has it's own advantage IMO. I do agree it is dumb to have it able to be stringed after ms f1.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Can't you do a little something called jumping Sonya's projectile and punishing her? Or ducking it and approaching her? Happens to me all the time.

The projectile is good as is, I don't see anything wrong with it.