Why isn't cartwheel punishable on block?

[GNG Iniquity]

I don't understand this. Sonya gets a free wakeup/anti-rushdown armored full comboable tool with absolutely no risk (-3 frames is not a risk). KL got nerfed, why hasn't Sonya had this fixed?

 

[BDMao88]

It's not called Special Forces for nothing!

before anyone else says it...

SHE NEEDS IT!!!!

 

[THTB]

Because Sonya players wanted her cartwheel to "work properly". Which was dumb tbh. She was already a good character that didn't need anything changed other than the block infs.

It's still vulnerable to NJP (especially on wakeup), so it's not fool-proof.

 

[Big Pampering]

simply because she is a b*tch. jax also has safe armor btw

 

[salvificblood]

Because NRS thought it was a good idea... The safe armoured cartwheel into full combo, the safe divekick into full combo. She needs it!

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

*looks at Shady from across North America*

 

[Gabriel032]

Well, she is left at -3 on block, so it's still a bad idea for her to randomly throw Cartwheels around. So, if a Sonya player is doing random Cartwheels to you and getting away completely unpunished (as I said, she is left at disadvantage, you can't punish her with full combo but you do get free pressure) you're doing something wrong.

And you can't do random dive kicks also, it needs proper spacing to be completely safe.

 

[Error]

Because NRS thought it was a good idea... The safe armoured cartwheel into full combo, the safe divekick into full combo. She needs it!

Divekick isn't safe.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Even with the armor, Sonya's Kartwheel Bash still gets parried by Cyber Sub Zero

 

[CJKRattlehead]

Well, she is left at -3 on block, so it's still a bad idea for her to randomly throw Cartwheels around. So, if a Sonya player is doing random Cartwheels to you and getting away completely unpunished (as I said, she is left at disadvantage, you can't punish her with full combo but you do get free pressure) you're doing something wrong.

I wouldn't say free pressure, cartwheel into armored cartwheel still gets you a combo and once you condition them to block or jump after a cartwheel then you are the one rewarded for that -3. Should be full punishable if you can make them adjust so you can get more pressure off negative frames.

I think the ex cartwheel should be full combo punishable but not the regular one. Reg cartwheel just doesn't need to be punishable.

 

[Gabriel032]

I wouldn't say free pressure, cartwheel into armored cartwheel still gets you a combo and once you condition them to block or jump after a cartwheel then you are the one rewarded for that -3. Should be full punishable if you can make them adjust so you can get more pressure off negative frames.

The thing is I feel that Sonya has much better options up close than cartwheel. I really don't see why anyone would use it other than in combos and to get chip damage. Of her reset, for example, I feel much better about only using MS F1 than canceling it into cartwheel. Obviously, the armored version has a lot more uses. It wouldn't make that much of a difference if the regular version was full combo punishable. But if the armored version was, Sonya would struggle even more against heavy zoners.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

But if the armored version was, Sonya would struggle even more against heavy zoners.

So you mean the way a rush down character with a low hitbox should be? Don't hear johnny cage players complain about Red kick being punishable...

 

[OmyMk]

I don't understand this. Sonya gets a free wakeup/anti-rushdown armored full comboable tool with absolutely no risk (-3 frames is not a risk). KL got nerfed, why hasn't Sonya had this fixed?

Becouse it would have been retarded if 5 out of 5 of her specials would have been punishable with full combo on block. Or wouldn't it? Pfff........

 

[Gabriel032]

So you mean the way a rush down character with a low hitbox should be? Don't hear johnny cage players complain about Red kick being punishable...

Red Kick is full screen and can be used in reaction to projectiles. And even though EN Cartwheel isn't punishable on block., you don't see good Sonya players using it randomly.

It's not punishable on block, but that doesn't mean it's not punishable at all.

Cage and Sonya are different characters. Cage is even better than her up close, so it makes sense that he has a harder time getting in.

 

[MileenaOTR]

I always thought cartwheel was safe on high block just not low.

 

[G4S KT]

I don't understand this. Sonya gets a free wakeup/anti-rushdown armored full comboable tool with absolutely no risk (-3 frames is not a risk). KL got nerfed, why hasn't Sonya had this fixed?

It's full combo whiff punish.

Someone link to the CD v Morty Seinfeld from the 5v5. THAT'S how you stop cartwheel.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

The thing is I feel that Sonya has much better options up close than cartwheel. I really don't see why anyone would use it other than in combos and to get chip damage. Of her reset, for example, I feel much better about only using MS F1 than canceling it into cartwheel. Obviously, the armored version has a lot more uses. It wouldn't make that much of a difference if the regular version was full combo punishable. But if the armored version was, Sonya would struggle even more against heavy zoners.

Sonya struggles vs zoners?!

zone back with those rings and her ungodly recovery from them?

 

[Gabriel032]

Sonya struggles vs zoners?!

zone back with those rings and her ungodly recovery from them?

I would like to see you try to outzone Kabal, Noob, Kenshi, Freddy, Kitana, Mileena or Sindel with Sonya's rings. Good luck.

Even Scorpion can beat Sonya if she spams rings. He gets two hellfires while she gets one ring.

You should only use rings against a heavy zoner if you have a huge life lead.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I would like to see you try to outzone Kabal, Noob, Kenshi, Freddy, Kitana, Mileena or Sindel with Sonya's rings. Good luck.

Even Scorpion can beat Sonya if she spams rings. He gets two hellfires while she gets one ring.

You should only use rings against a heavy zoner if you have a huge life lead.

Good, at least she sucks at something. Glad I'm learning Kenshi then.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Honestly I'm not sure why her cartwheel can't be punished on block...and I happen to main her.

However, it leaves her at disadvantage and you can poke her after a blocked cartwheel to get some pressure going. And as other users have pointed out, it is punished by a full combo if whiffed.

As for her EX Cartwheel having armor, it's necessary for her to be able to have a chance against the hardcore zoners. Sonya vs. Kenshi is bad enough as it is, and I don't need to explain why, LOL.

 

[Gabriel032]

Good, at least she sucks at something. Glad I'm learning Kenshi then.

A lot of people says she is top 5, but in my opinion, that is exactly what stops her of being. If you play her, there is a good chance that you'll need a backup char. She has 3-7 matches, she is not unbeatable like a lot of people think she is.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

You are giving up all of your pressure when you use Cartwheel against good players.

 

[Gabriel032]

You are giving up all of your pressure when you use Cartwheel against good players.

^This.

 

[RTM2004]

People here whining about Sonya's Cartwheel, you can blow it up with NJP combo or cross over to make it whiff.

If you block Sonya's Cartwheel, you can D1 her first - same applies to her Ex armored Cartwheel.

Also, her Dive Kick is punishable but online Sonya gets away with that.

Sonya NEEDS that armored Ex Cartwheel against Kabal/Kenshi. Stop crying here to nerf it, learn the game!

Who gives a s*** that it's an armored combo starter, why is no one complaining about Scorpions Ex Spear, Rain's Ex Roundhouse Kick, Kabal's Ex Nomad Dash.... because you can punish those? Learn to NJP punish Sonya's Cartwheel!

 

[Gabriel032]

People here whining about Sonya's Cartwheel, you can blow it up with NJP combo or cross over to make it whiff.

If you block Sonya's Cartwheel, you can D1 her first - same applies to her Ex armored Cartwheel.

Also, her Dive Kick is punishable but online Sonya gets away with that.

Sonya NEEDS that armored Ex Cartwheel against Kabal/Kenshi. Stop crying here to nerf it, learn the game!

Who gives a s*** that it's an armored combo starter, why is no one complaining about Scorpions Ex Spear, Rain's Ex Roundhouse Kick, Kabal's Ex Nomad Dash.... because you can punish those? Learn to NJP punish Sonya's Cartwheel!

Actually, even online you can't use dive kick randomly. If you are blocked too high, basically anyone can punish it.