What's new

Question Why Does Bane Have To Be One Of The Worst?

D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Bolded text. He goes 5-5 with most of the cast and beats a handful of characters.

Stop. stop it right now. Also no he isn't out-classed by Deathstroke. He has Deathstroke's range on his swords with far faster moves He doesn't need damage when he has set-ups that are difficult as shit and can kill you with a hard knockdown on level 3 Venom into super. Most of the cast? He does close to 60% with no meter, that's MILES better than a lot of characters. Having armor helps a lot considering you can stuff pretty much every counter-attack, force them to try dash backing only to command grab their shit and put them back in step one. You're not supposed to be going level 3 herp derp YOLO all day and with meter you can mitigate the problem on any debuff with armored launchers to check a knockdown. You get a free combo if it hits which will 100% run out the debuff and on block you get free pressure which done right will burn quite a bit too. Learn how to manage your Venom and this character's options will really open up.

I don't think you know anything about Bane to be honest. He's mid-tier as of right now.
I know enough about Bane to still win matches with him, and I firmly believe he is the worst character in the game. I'm talking purely high-level tournament play, where his set-ups simply don't work. 60% meterless sounds great until you realize the tables turn and he can easily start eating 80%+ combos on debuff. Having to rely on level-3 Venom super to kill a character should tell you how busted he is, considering his broken-ass super can be jumped on reaction and even whiffs for no good reason half the time, wasting all of your meter and trait in the process unless you combo into it off of his one(?) string that links into it.

As far as Deathstroke is concerned, he deals higher meterless damage, has actual frame-traps, and is much faster. Even if you can argue that Bane isn't actually outclassed by Deathstroke up close, it's still absurd that it's even arguable, considering Deathstroke was designed to be one of the best ranged characters in the game. There should be absolutely no question that Bane destroys characters like Deathstroke, Superman, and Green Lantern up close, but that's simply not the case. For a character with a giant hitbox and zero ranged options, his up-close game is absolutely pathetic.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
I know enough about Bane to still win matches with him, and I firmly believe he is the worst character in the game. I'm talking purely high-level tournament play, where his set-ups simply don't work. 60% meterless sounds great until you realize the tables turn and he can easily start eating 80%+ combos on debuff. Having to rely on level-3 Venom super to kill a character should tell you how busted he is, considering his broken-ass super can be jumped on reaction and even whiffs for no good reason half the time, wasting all of your meter and trait in the process.

As far as Deathstroke is concerned, he deals higher meterless damage, has actual frame-traps, and is much faster. Even if you can argue that Bane isn't actually outclassed by Deathstroke up close, it's still absurd that it's even arguable, considering Deathstroke was designed to be one of the best ranged characters in the game. There should be absolutely no question that Bane destroys characters like Deathstroke, Superman, and Green Lantern up close, but that's simply not the case. For a character with a giant hitbox and zero ranged options, his up-close game is absolutely pathetic.
Bane has actual frame traps. I don't know why you think he doesn't. B.1 is +12 on block, b.23 is +5, b.21 is +4, 113 is +3, d.1 +3. And that's just the block stuff. On hit d.1 frame traps into b.23, b.11, and 223. We're not getting into tick throws and the set-ups off of command grab where he can more than easily take huge chunks of life off you.

His super can't be jumped on a hard knockdown, that was my entire point. The hitbox needs to fixed and IMO it should be a LOT faster than what it is now, but you can't hate a 54% that in some situations you simply can't avoid.

On being able to destroy everyone up close, do you really think people aren't going to bitch? I have to agree he probably should be better considering the shit other characters have, but for some reason a character with no ranged options since f.2 is 21 frames and -20 on block shouldn't have absurd rushdown when he gets in. I think Venom compliments him nicely and with a damage buff without it(with Venom scaling appropriately) that could be all he needs. I think he's a solid conditioning character with a high risk/reward mechanic. Like I said before, mindlessly using Level 3 Venom is asking to die. That's all I need to say about it.
 

big_aug

Kombatant
Bolded text. He goes 5-5 with most of the cast and beats a handful of characters.

Stop. stop it right now. Also no he isn't out-classed by Deathstroke. He has Deathstroke's range on his swords with far faster moves He doesn't need damage when he has set-ups that are difficult as shit and can kill you with a hard knockdown on level 3 Venom into super. Most of the cast? He does close to 60% with no meter, that's MILES better than a lot of characters. Having armor helps a lot considering you can stuff pretty much every counter-attack, force them to try dash backing only to command grab their shit and put them back in step one. You're not supposed to be going level 3 herp derp YOLO all day and with meter you can mitigate the problem on any debuff with armored launchers to check a knockdown. You get a free combo if it hits which will 100% run out the debuff and on block you get free pressure which done right will burn quite a bit too. Learn how to manage your Venom and this character's options will really open up.

I don't think you know anything about Bane to be honest. He's mid-tier as of right now.
I think it's safe to say he's bottom 5. Most of the other cast doesn't have the types of bad match ups he has.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Like I said before, mindlessly using Level 3 Venom is asking to die. That's all I need to say about it.
I have no idea where you got the impression I advocated mindlessly going Level 3.
 

big_aug

Kombatant
He's the only character in the game that poses no threat outside of standing normal range. Every other character has something. That alone really hurts him.
 

PoweredbyProtein

Eternal student
Why would you backdash against Bane when jumping back is usually the better answer? And command grab can be backdashed out of. It doesnt penetrate backdash invincibility frames. Having venom on command grab doesnt matter because Bane's biggest issue is he cant get people to stop mashing buttons or jumping around. Command grab is so slow you can do a D1 which will absorb by armor but have enough time to jump up and full combo Bane on the way down in his recovery frames.
All his armor moves blow up people mashing buttons. High attacks, ring grab, Venom uppercut, and double punch are just a few moves that can blow up people that keep jumping.
If you read that someone is going to backdash, or if they just backdashed and didn't time it at the time when the grab will activate, the grab will catch them if they backdash. You cannot D1 and then jump away if the Bane used armor command grab.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Do you even play Bane?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Doomsday? Lex Luthor?
Doomsday actually loses all armor properties on his moves with his passive, if that's what you are referring to. He becomes incapable of being knocked down or lifted, and takes reduced hitstun. supposedly.

Lex has to charge his and once its gone, he has to wait again. Whats more is its only 1 hit of armor meaning that he doesn't truly have free armor on everything at least not in the way we do. If we trade we keep our armor, he doesn't.
 

Khaoz77

Don't run, you're gonna trip...
I read this whole thread and I came to 2 conclusions.

1: Get in the lab, and stay your ass there until you have answers for the shit you have trouble with.

2: I think I'm in love with Doombawkz :oops:
 

Limelights

"The smart stuff"
This Is Not A Enlighs Course. Seriously Do Some Of You Have To Go In Threads And Harass Members Who Dont Spell Perfectly Like They Are Writing A College Essay?

You're right, it's not. But it's just fucking outrageous that people can't help but comment on it. So much extra work having to press shift, you know?
 

Zen Razor

Hell Spawn
Bane low tier lmao yeah right.I have trouble getting bane off me when they guy really knows what he's doing.If bane knocks you down forget it.He has mid range grab if you block,if you wakeup venom for armor and uppercut if you jump.He can pretty much beat half the cast from close I don't know why people say he's low tier I think it's bs the only person I can beat him without a problem is Superman.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I read this whole thread and I came to 2 conclusions.

1: Get in the lab, and stay your ass there until you have answers for the shit you have trouble with.

2: I think I'm in love with Doombawkz :oops:
What did I do?

Bane low tier lmao yeah right.I have trouble getting bane off me when they guy really knows what he's doing.If bane knocks you down forget it.He has mid range grab if you block,if you wakeup venom for armor and uppercut if you jump.He can pretty much beat half the cast from close I don't know why people say he's low tier I think it's bs the only person I can beat him without a problem is Superman.
He is low tier, but if you don't know how to fight him properly he can be a monster.
 
Jeebus cripes the directions this thread has gone...

I guess before I begin I should state that my qualification to contribute to this thread is that I've mained Bane and nobody but Bane since the game dropped. I mean, there are a few characters I mess with... but I main Bane.

One of the key components to Bane's survival is proper Venom management. Pop one, wait till it's almost entirely gone then pop another thereby extending the duration of Venom and making it incrementally more effective. Note, however, that after 2 Venoms, it's probably best to let it expire. The risk behind a 3rd Venom pop, even after the patch, would make one look stupid against over half of the cast. This is, of course, situational in the sense that there ARE a few times where having 3 Venoms popped is pretty desirable such as against spamming Deathstrokes or to put a real quick end to that joke of a super Grundy has.

Yes, it's true, that Bane struggles with close encounters. The unfortunate thing is nobody here can tell you anything about proper timing and baiting out moves that you won't learn infinitely more from tried and true practice and experience.

But with 2 Venoms cooling down in 4.5 seconds and 1 Venom at 3 seconds, there should rarely be a situation where you are knocked down and don't have a Venom to burn on wake up strategy.

To stand a chance against a staggering majority of the cast you can't try to be the Bane in the comic books. No mindless barrages. No fight or flight style attempts to close in. There's no use in rushing in as he has few tools that safely get him in on his opponent. I used to make the mistake of using bf1 as my close-in tool. This, of course, meant either being jumped over for serious punishment or giving them a free MB b+3. Since the patch, you can dash in on a full screen opponent in 2 dashes. Just dash, block in case of reaction, and dash again after blocking any ranged moves.

Don't underestimate jumping d+3. Especially if you can get them in the corner before attempting it. It crosses up even at times where it looks like it shouldn't and the hit-stun opens up all kinds of opportunity for a b23 starter into whatever you want.

Again, tried and true practice and experience will enlighten you as to when to use what against who.

Oh, and d1 cancels into a sweet command grab on block or a safe bf2 overhead. Not always your first choice, I'm sure, but when you need to pressure that's a start at least.

At high-level play... Bane struggles with most of the roster. Sad but true. Either be patient and play the opportunist or put down the sticks and go buy a bike or something.
 
Bane is top 5. People are just underating that char but we still don't know what Bane is capable of.

/troll OFF.

Part of me REEEEALY wants to agree with you. Boy that'd be nice, huh?
The more practical part of me, however, thinks you're smoking crack.
Let's do the math for just a sec. Even if he's in the bottom of the top 5, for those of you keeping score at home that's 5th place, that would mean that pound for pound, matchup for matchup, there are only 4 other characters that fare better than him in high level play. Now, if you weren't smoking crack, you'd know that's BS.
 

D_Matt_Ma

Sheeva isn't Goro's wife. Goro is her husband.
I think Bane has to be the weakest because for design reasons. They want certain characters stronger than others based on the comic designs. From a power perspective, the game stays relatively true to the power/strength of the comics. Deathstroke really is the only exception, and even then you can't argue how smart he is. Your top characters really are top powered characters in the comics. Bane, as great of a character he is, really only had one great showing in the comics. Even after the last movie, he hasn't left much of an impression amongst people.

And yes, despite me knowing a few other characters, I'm sticking with Bane for Evo. As bad as he is, I play best with him... to the point counterpicking has proven to be less effective for me than sticking it out with him (Superman is an exception, but I'll work on that the next few weeks).
 

BigC

I'm great in my world.
I think Bane has to be the weakest because for design reasons. They want certain characters stronger than others based on the comic designs. From a power perspective, the game stays relatively true to the power/strength of the comics. Deathstroke really is the only exception, and even then you can't argue how smart he is. Your top characters really are top powered characters in the comics. Bane, as great of a character he is, really only had one great showing in the comics. Even after the last movie, he hasn't left much of an impression amongst people.

And yes, despite me knowing a few other characters, I'm sticking with Bane for Evo. As bad as he is, I play best with him... to the point counterpicking has proven to be less effective for me than sticking it out with him (Superman is an exception, but I'll work on that the next few weeks).
We should get a skinny Tom Hardy Bane character with the fur coat and what not. His super needs to be him putting the opponent in a stadium and blowing it up.
 

Garr123

Mortal
Why would you backdash against Bane when jumping back is usually the better answer? And command grab can be backdashed out of. It doesnt penetrate backdash invincibility frames. Having venom on command grab doesnt matter because Bane's biggest issue is he cant get people to stop mashing buttons or jumping around. Command grab is so slow you can do a D1 which will absorb by armor but have enough time to jump up and full combo Bane on the way down in his recovery frames.
Bane has some significant issues, but they mostly revolve around most of the cast having zoning, and many of them having zoning which completely negates his level 1 venom armor (Batman, KF, DS, MB Superman, to name a few. Nightwing's godamn three hit air projectile.). Bane's Charge should be able to punish lazy zoning, but it doesn't, and he has a pretty hard time getting around it with dashing/jumping.

People pushing buttons in his face and jumping around are not Bane's problem. In fact, I've found he specifically punishes that sort of behavior from much of the cast. His airthrow and uppercut both punish jumping, with his uppercut often leading into a mixup, and as long as he has venom his turn punch and throw stop random poking and sloppy pressure, and lead into mixups. He also has one of the strongest Oki games against most of the cast, as venom means they can't just throw out wakeups and genuinely have to play your guessing game which is not in their favor. Everyone goes on about Lobo's throw, but honestly I feel Bane's is the best in the game because of the position it leaves the opponent when you don't MB.

His d1 is also an amazing poke, and after training people to respect it, it can be used to go into turn knuckle or body press.

I've occasionally run into players who I believe are considered good, and if they weren't using someone that Bane had a nightmarishly hard time getting in on, then they first time I knocked them down would often cost them a life bar. If they were someone like Lantern, though, then I'd pick a different character because fuck that MU.

Also, I beat 90% of the Bane's I've played on XBL because they meter burn their moves and try to do flashy, bullshit combos instead of just keeping me in a meat grinder. I'm certainly not the best Bane, but before my data got corrupted I had like a 68% winrate over ~600 matches, and that was achieved by ending every combo in Body Press, then doing either Turn Knuckle, b23 113 bf3, or just bf3 on their wakeup, then doing it again, and again, and again. There's a bit more to it than that, and I know it's not flashy, but it works for me.

edit: Honestly, I think Bane is just very matchup dependent, ala Zangief. But he could probably use some buffs to get through multi-hit projectiles, IMHO.
 
I cannot see how Bane is low tier honestly. He blows up some really strong characters like KF and lantern really hard.

Here's what I think is good about him and how these strong points apply in matches.

1. Obscene movement. Possibly the best movement in the game. Bane has good walking and dashing speed. So all you have to do is block one projectile and you push the space forward. Oftentimes when you pushforward people jump back/up or forward for their life because they can't do ANYTHING against dash up venomed double uppers or charge.

2. Very strong anti-airs. venomed rising attack is a highly consistent anti-air. No character's jump can beat it. It also provides a very strong knockdown which people cannot backdash out of because of D.1 setplay. If we MB it, they instantly go to corner. Corner is death.

On wakeup, rising venom also makes crossups moot.

Even without venom rising, bane has an airgrab thats fairly consistent, and a D2 that works well against most of the cast. Moreover this normal has been buffed.

Against footdives and what not, jump up/back splash occupies the space in the air for a good period of time...

3. Bane has incredible wakeup. Really obsceeeene wakeup. the wakeup game vs bane is one-of-a-kind. I feel no need to elaborate further on this. done right, i personally think it is the death of the opponent. I should mention however that a properly timed D1 is UNBACKDASHABLE, and un MB B3/F3 armourable; it will also be option selected.

4. His mid-screen set play is incredible. D1, dash 113, blocked double upper and blocked charge set up very good situations where we can hit buttons again, bait for jump, or push further if we know the opponent wants to jump back.

5. His anti-environment is very strong, because he can charge through everything, and absorb and then punish people. rising venom against environment users is also powerful on wakeup. If you do it right people DIE.

6. Level 3 venom charge and F[2] dash cancel play is sick when Bane has level 3 because it is completely unarmourable... and with the coming patch, charge cannot be parried ( i personally think this is stupid and simply too much).

7. His resets :/ Charge -- super is stupid

8. One must also not forget that his environment abilities are very interesting and strong. If you do a level 3 venomed backbreaker at the left of metro or wayne manor, and then throw them OUT of the corner, then send the car on them with level 3... thats a lot of damage.
 
My take on Bane is that a fundamental issue will always be the trait. I actually LOVE the trait and how they did it. I give NRS cool props for the way the Venom trait works. And after all, wtf else could the trait for Bane be other than Venom? It is perfect. It is fun too. I don't main Bane, but the trait is damn fun. Anyways, fundamentally, we are going to have the Venom juice principle, where Bane is a real beast when he is juiced up on Venom, but he has the corresponding cooldown period where he is more vulnerable. I don't think I am going out on a limb to suggest that a good game for Bane is getting in on someone when he is juiced up, inflicting a bunch of damage, avoiding the foe during cool down, rinse and repeat. A good game for Bane's opponent is avoiding Bane when he is juiced up and getting in on him while he is in cooldown and vulnerable.

I think this cooldown vulnerability will always be Bane's bane. Some characters are just going to be too mobile for Bane to reliably get in on when juiced and/or to avoid when he is in cool down. Obviously a high level Bane player against a low level foe is going to be more successful, but the cooldown is always a concern, and something other characters don't have. NRS had some mercy earlier by reducing the cooldown period, but the line is going to be drawn somewhere. Without the cooldown, there's no reason for Bane not to always be juiced out of his gourd. My feeling is that this is really the thorn for Bane, since most characters don't have a trait that leaves them extra vulnerable. Most characters don't have to worry that if they get combo-ed at the wrong time their foe is going to do a bunch of extra damage on top of what they normally would. The problem is if the balance gets shifted too much in Bane's favour, then all of a sudden Bane is S+, like if his lvl 3 cooldown lasted 30 seconds with a 1 sec cool down (extreme example, I know), then while that might be awesome for Bane fans, everyone else would complain. Based on the last few patches, I just don't know if NRS plans to make any further Venom adjustments. Making his charge unparry-able is a nice tweak, but I don't know if the cooldown is ever going to be "fixed" to where a Bane main-er wouldn't want more.