Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

[Tweedy]

Lol I watched a little of the top 8 again.

There's this part where Aris starts randomly going off about pepperoni mushroom jalapeno pizza.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

I agree that maybe we should start prioritizing other tournaments but EVO is big and NRS putting its money into EVO makes sense. Maybe we kan bring this up to NRS as a kommunity so that they kan speak up for us and not sponsor the event if they don't maintain it to a standard?

While you're chatting up NRS tell them that it makes absolutely no sense to decide to give a tournament a pot bonus months in advance but only announce it a couple weeks ahead of time.
If you want to have 700 people show up to a tournament, they need to make travel plans.

 

[AeWhole]

MKX in its 2nd year of Evo had more entrants in proportion to mk9 and injustice of their 2nd year, so you're wrong, it's actually stronger, not weaker.

This is what I was saying about taking a page out of the smash communities book, do it yourself.

It doesn't matter if sonic wins all the events (which he hasn't, not ALL of them). You can't say that he has that much influence on an entire community because he doesn't, one furry shouldn't be enough to waver any bodies passion for competition/love of MK.

I'm not really talking to you, in the rant, only in the "meaning". While disagree with some of your post most of what you are saying in this thread is bang on. There is a difference between someone putting forth thought out points and a bunch of trash talking ingrates acting like foot stamping 12 year old girls.

K&M are legit casters, there is not a question here. Everyone thinks so, and that is why they were given a shot at Evo commentary. For that very reason. This is the 1st time they are commentating at Evo and they are there BECASUE they are respected. That dosn't mean they should instantly get the most coveted casting job in the FGC a Top 8 EVO night on the very first time they ever show up.

ESPN was watching, all eyes.. huge money men where watching EVO 2016 thinking about the future of eSports. Is it really so hard to understand why they would want some very experienced casters who are known quantities, as well as having cross game appeal?

Aight I can respect what you are saying the fans didn't understand though. Ketchup and Mustard are stepping up their professionalism though lately could have been a huge opportunity for them. Call me a fanboy.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So let's be real here. The whole reason this all happened is because SFV got 5000 entrants at EVO and they put all resources into running that tournament, shafting everyone else. Once you added in that the finals was on ESPN, EVERYTHING had to cater to that. Hence finals got moved to 8AM. This seems unfair, but I wouldn't give up on EVO just yet.

I didn't think SFV being on ESPN would be that big a deal, but it was. I was watching in my living room when my family walked by and wondered what it is. After watching a match they all sat down and watched the whole 2+ hours of it getting just as hype as me, which was pretty incredible. EVO has over 151,000 tweets(hashtags?) on twitter, which means at least that many people were watching on a Sunday night.

I know what your thinking, "But Zoidberg, EVO only cares about Capcom games, what does this do for OUR scene?" We'll have to wait until the ratings come out to know for sure, but that amount of exposure could be a huge boost to the FGC and get a LOT more people playing FGs. And what happens if they don't like SF but just so happen to love DC comics? Or played MK growing up and learn about the tournament scene for it? Is it that crazy to think that if a bunch of new players migrated to the FGC that some of them might just make their way to NRS games, growing OUR scene?

"But Zoidberg, even if it does give us new players, we still won't ever be on ESPN and get that exposure. EVO doesn't care enough to put us on there". It's true that SFV will always take precedent over MKX for stream/tv time, but whose to say they only show SFV next year? Maybe next year they try showing two game's finals, and the next they show 3 games etc. It may be a few years down the line but there is a chance that an NRS game sees air time on national tv and gets that exposure. Could ESL/CEO/KiT also be aired eventually? Maybe, but why throw away a tournament that already has been aired in the first place?

The funny thing is people have made these same threads about tournaments like CEO, Final Round, Combo Breaker, SCR and the like. And in most of those cases, the TOs made adjustments the next year to make the tournament even better and all was forgiven. Why not give EVO that chance?

I feel like i'm tired and just rambling but I'll end with this. If you really want that kind of exposure and more attention at tournaments like EVO, get those entrants up. If more finals start getting aired and we get entrants to rival SFV or surpass Melee, there's a 99% chance they put us right before SFV. But to do that we have to get more people(like me ) to get out to these tournaments.
That's just the bottom line.

 

[Zabru]

Would have liked the twins or pig and brady commentating.

 

[dotunderscore]

EVO has over 151,000 tweets(hashtags?) on twitter, which means at least that many people were watching on a Sunday night.

Off-topic but this made me realize that putting a $12 fee on twitch chat likely turned out to be a brilliant (though likely unintentional) social media strategy

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I feel like i'm tired and just rambling but I'll end with this. If you really want that kind of exposure and more attention at tournaments like EVO, get those entrants up. If more finals start getting aired and we get entrants to rival SFV or surpass Melee, there's a 99% chance they put us right before SFV. But to do that we have to get more people(like me ) to get out to these tournaments.
That's just the bottom line.

I think you mightve missed the point, its not about exposure so much as:

- allowing our game to be played by our rules
- proper seating arrangements
- allow our scenes most notable commentators to commentate our top 8, just as it was done for other games
- smoother running of the brackets
- sorting out stream issues

 

[MK_Al]

So let's be real here. The whole reason this all happened is because SFV got 5000 entrants at EVO and they put all resources into running that tournament, shafting everyone else. Once you added in that the finals was on ESPN, EVERYTHING had to cater to that. Hence finals got moved to 8AM. This seems unfair, but I wouldn't give up on EVO just yet.

I didn't think SFV being on ESPN would be that big a deal, but it was. I was watching in my living room when my family walked by and wondered what it is. After watching a match they all sat down and watched the whole 2+ hours of it getting just as hype as me, which was pretty incredible. EVO has over 151,000 tweets(hashtags?) on twitter, which means at least that many people were watching on a Sunday night.

I know what your thinking, "But Zoidberg, EVO only cares about Capcom games, what does this do for OUR scene?" We'll have to wait until the ratings come out to know for sure, but that amount of exposure could be a huge boost to the FGC and get a LOT more people playing FGs. And what happens if they don't like SF but just so happen to love DC comics? Or played MK growing up and learn about the tournament scene for it? Is it that crazy to think that if a bunch of new players migrated to the FGC that some of them might just make their way to NRS games, growing OUR scene?

"But Zoidberg, even if it does give us new players, we still won't ever be on ESPN and get that exposure. EVO doesn't care enough to put us on there". It's true that SFV will always take precedent over MKX for stream/tv time, but whose to say they only show SFV next year? Maybe next year they try showing two game's finals, and the next they show 3 games etc. It may be a few years down the line but there is a chance that an NRS game sees air time on national tv and gets that exposure. Could ESL/CEO/KiT also be aired eventually? Maybe, but why throw away a tournament that already has been aired in the first place?

The funny thing is people have made these same threads about tournaments like CEO, Final Round, Combo Breaker, SCR and the like. And in most of those cases, the TOs made adjustments the next year to make the tournament even better and all was forgiven. Why not give EVO that chance?

I feel like i'm tired and just rambling but I'll end with this. If you really want that kind of exposure and more attention at tournaments like EVO, get those entrants up. If more finals start getting aired and we get entrants to rival SFV or surpass Melee, there's a 99% chance they put us right before SFV. But to do that we have to get more people(like me ) to get out to these tournaments.
That's just the bottom line.

While I agree on everything you said I'd like to remind you that smash had about 2600 entrants and suffered similar problems, so geting the entrants up won't solve our problems. it is as well up to the evo tos to raise the bar

 

[Tweedy]

Our community is super negative in comparison to the SFV community. Maybe it has a lot to do with the community being newer?

There were more Nashs and Chuns in top 8 than Aliens, yet people are going nuts about how Sonic used Alien in one game. The only people who really complain about Nash and Chun are casuals and stoners, yet we have community representatives constantly using hyperboles when referencing the top tier in our game. We have casuals thinking that Alien and Mileena is the reason that it was at 8am and lost 400 people lol.

I see people getting frustrated when casuals come in and say "well why would people sign up and want to watch such an unbalanced game", when we all know that the days of +30 EX hat, Raiden's F12, CEO Tanya, etc, are long gone. It's our fault, though. We act like the game is a lot worse than it is, then get frustrated when people take our word for it.

SFV gets 8 frames of lag, the players just stay positive and tweet out good vibes. Imagine if MKX had 8 frames of lag. Man.

Obviously SFV is a bit more fundamentally correct than MKX. That doesn't mean that we can't be positive every once and awhile. People read TYM, people read Twitter. Don't use hyperboles bro. Superman 4 exists because of them, right, @Dankster Morgan.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Our community is super negative in comparison to the SFV community. Maybe it has a lot to do with the community being newer?

There were more Nashs and Chuns in top 8 than Aliens, yet people are going nuts about how Sonic used Alien in one game. The only people who really complain about Nash and Chun are casuals and stoners, yet we have community representatives constantly using hyperboles when referencing the top tier in our game. We have casuals thinking that Alien and Mileena is the reason that it was at 8am and lost 400 people lol.

I see people getting frustrated when casuals come in and say "well why would people sign up and want to watch such an unbalanced game", when we all know that the days of +30 EX hat, Raiden's F12, CEO Tanya, etc, are long gone. It's our fault, though. We act like the game is a lot worse than it is, then get frustrated when people take our word for it.

SFV gets 8 frames of lag, the players just stay positive and tweet out good vibes. Imagine if MKX had 8 frames of lag. Man.

Obviously SFV is a bit more fundamentally correct than MKX. That doesn't mean that we can't be positive every once and awhile. People read TYM, people read Twitter. Don't use hyperboles bro. Superman 4 exists because of them, right, @Dankster Morgan.

mkx has 7 frames of native input lag

 

[Tweedy]

mkx has 7 frames of native input lag

I thought it was 6?

Either way, it wasn't exposed early on like SFV's.

 

[B. Shazzy]

I thought it was 6?

Either way, it wasn't exposed early on like SFV's.

There's exactly .9 frames of input lag difference between mkx and sfv. It's not the biggest deal when nash and chun take up 4 spots in top 8 because these characters aren't borderline broken in their game, and the people behind them are sf gods. That's the difference.

 

[Tweedy]

There's exactly .9 frames of input lag difference between mkx and sfv. It's not the biggest deal when nash and chun take up 4 spots in top 8 because these characters aren't borderline broken in their game, just toptier. That's the difference.

Exactly what i'm talking about. That's a good example of what i'm talking about. In the SFV community, top tier is just top tier. In the NRS community, top tier is disgusting and broken.

None of the top tier are borderline broken on this game. They're probably not better than Chun or Nash are in SFV. I mean Chun actually causes significant upsets. The people who pick up Alien/Mileena and win, were already winning.

It's just repeated hyberboles that make characters seem better than they actually are. Mileena and Alien hit you one time and enforce a 50/50 hard to blockable vortex. They have 30% chip blockstrings with prepatch meterbuilding, like Kung Lao and Shinnok did in June. They're CEO Tanya.

Wait, none of that is true. All of that stuff has been toned down or taken out completely. Even those characters weren't borderline broken, if you're using the word broken in a literal sense. I don't think anyone does on this site. It's the #1 hyperbole.

Also, as far as comparing the input delay goes, here you go. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/mar/15/street-fighter-5s-input-lag-more-four-times-skullgirls-or-mortal-kombat-x-research-video-battlenonsense-eye-opening/

 

[Tweedy]

It crazy how low the input lag is in offline, or local MKX.

Get fucked Shazzy. Get your mans tth.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Exactly what i'm talking about. That's a good example of what i'm talking about. In the SFV community, top tier is just top tier. In the NRS community, top tier is disgusting and broken.

None of the top tier are borderline broken on this game. They're probably not better than Chun or Nash are in SFV. I mean Chun actually causes significant upsets. The people who pick up Alien/Mileena and win, were already winning.

It's just repeated hyberboles that make characters seem better than they actually are. Mileena and Alien hit you one time and enforce a 50/50 hard to blockable vortex. They have 30% chip blockstrings with prepatch meterbuilding, like Kung Lao and Shinnok did in June. They're CEO Tanya.

Wait, none of that is true. All of that stuff has been toned down or taken out completely. Even those characters weren't borderline broken, if you're using the word broken in a literal sense. I don't think anyone does on this site. It's the #1 hyperbole.

Also, as far as comparing the input delay goes, here you go. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/mar/15/street-fighter-5s-input-lag-more-four-times-skullgirls-or-mortal-kombat-x-research-video-battlenonsense-eye-opening/

Cause they always are. This is your first fg, and you've demonstrated your lack of perspective a lot on this site but as somebody who's played since mk9 toptier still is and was broken in every nrs game til arguably this moment in time. I'm not sure because I haven't played in a while.

Those 4 Chun and Nash players are literally SF gods/evo champions except Yukadon, who has still proven himself against other SF gods.

Also I'm not watching a 9 min video when I can literally look at this panel telling me the difference between mkx and sfv input lag is less than a frame on a website desicated to nothing else but demonstrating input lag, displaylag.com.

 

[Dirtylova]

European Salt is strong and EXTRA bitter...

 

[Tweedy]

Cause they always are. This is your first fg, but as somebody who's played since mk9 toptier still is and was broken in every nrs game til arguably this moment in time. I'm not sure because I haven't played in a while.

Those 4 Chun and Nash players are literally SF gods except Yukadon, who has still proven himself against other SF gods.

Also I'm not watching a 9 min bideo when I can literally look at this panel telling me the difference between mkx and sfv input lag is less than a frame

That panel is incorrect, though. It had to have been based off of pre-ggpo online tests. That video is legit.

And you can't be condescending when you call fighting game characters "broken", that clearly aren't "broken". Hit up a dictionary. I also body you so don't talk to me like that. Where is tth.

Edit: That's another example of how bad our community's attitude is. When someone wins in Street Fighter or Smash, no matter what character, they're a god. When Sonic or Dragon win, it's because they're snot nosed kids using broken characters.

 

[B. Shazzy]

That panel is incorrect, though. It had to have been based off of pre-ggpo online tests. That video is legit.

And you can't be condescending when you call fighting game characters "broken", that clearly aren't "broken". Hit up a dictionary. I also body you so don't talk to me like that. Where is tth.

Lmao this is exactly what I mean. What does ggpo netcode have to do with native input lag, or im babby terms, offline?

You have zero clue, 2015er and your insecurity of possibly maining a broken character but still accomplishing nothing in this game is prob why you go the extra mile to make sure everyone knows "it's not actually the character u guise safe meterless 50/50s on characters who don't happen to have 6f normals isn't mad scrubby."

 

[Tweedy]

Lmao this is exactly what I mean. What does ggpo netcode have to do with native input lag, or im babby terms, offline?

You have zero clue, 2015er and your insecurity of possibly maining a broken character but still accomplishing nothing in this game is prob why you go the extra mile to make sure everyone knows "it's not actually the character u guise."

Not at all. I comfortably admit that i'm not very good at this game. Since you're getting personal, I know that I have won this little debacle. GG

The video explains everything. If you cared enough to know who is actually right, you'd watch it. But you don't, especially since you jumped to conclusions about my motive, and use the word "broken" for characters.

Edit: Your post confuses me the more that I think about it. When did my posts ever have anything to do with me? Maybe you're just trying to allude to me downplaying Alien as a way to dismiss the points that I've made. Whatever, it's like when you're arguing with a women in a very mild fashion and they start going overboard. Maybe you're still butthurt about that 10-0 that I dished you the last time you played me on MK.

 

[Quantus]

-Stream issues/ Poorly Ran Brackets/etc
Not really a NRS unique issue. EVO should have been better in these departments, but they aren't examples of "EVO treating us like this"

-Running by our rules:
Ideally, we would do this, but unfortunately they do have a schedule that they are trying to make (even if they aren't great at it) and we have to realize that 3 of 5 is fucking scary to TOs. We should be thankful that we got it for all of Top 8. (This, also is not an example of "EVO treating us like this". Smash has also been very vocal about wanting 3 of 5. Not saying that they are right, because that shit would take forever, but they want it bad)

-Commentary
UD and Aris are extremely entertaining commentators and gave Top 8 a wider appeal, honestly. Having our guys up there would probably please a lot of NRS players, but UD and Aris are great commentators for the FGC viewers.

- Seperate venues for pools and top 8
Wasn't this the case for every game?

This community's reputation about being whiney didn't come out of nowhere. It seems that the NRS community really wants to fragment itself from the FGC, and that's a shame.

Acting more and more like Smash Kiddies at every release...

 

[Dirtylova]

-Stream issues/ Poorly Ran Brackets/etc
Not really a NRS unique issue. EVO should have been better in these departments, but they aren't examples of "EVO treating us like this"

-Running by our rules:
Ideally, we would do this, but unfortunately they do have a schedule that they are trying to make (even if they aren't great at it) and we have to realize that 3 of 5 is fucking scary to TOs. We should be thankful that we got it for all of Top 8. (This, also is not an example of "EVO treating us like this". Smash has also been very vocal about wanting 3 of 5. Not saying that they are right, because that shit would take forever, but they want it bad)

-Commentary
UD and Aris are extremely entertaining commentators and gave Top 8 a wider appeal, honestly. Having our guys up there would probably please a lot of NRS players, but UD and Aris are great commentators for the FGC viewers.

- Seperate venues for pools and top 8
Wasn't this the case for every game?

This community's reputation about being whiney didn't come out of nowhere. It seems that the NRS community really wants to fragment itself from the FGC, and that's a shame.

Acting more and more like Smash Kiddies at every release...

@A F0xy Grampa

 

[B. Shazzy]

Edit: That's another example of how bad our community's attitude is. When someone wins in Street Fighter or Smash, no matter what character, they're a god. When Sonic or Dragon win, it's because they're snot nosed kids using broken characters.

Oh my bad that's right Dragon and Sonic are comparable to multiple SF evo champs who have been winning and plaving top in tournaments for almost a decade because at least 10 years of SF and the 3 years combined MKXL/ Injustice are super equivalent with equal pools of competition and skill-barriers...lol how do I not go about this not- condescendingly? It's weird to have to explain this.

Just don't compare the two very different games - that's why nobody likes nrs players, the whining for validation, not the games they play.

Not at all. I comfortably admit that i'm not very good at this game. Since you're getting personally, I know that I have won this little debacle. GG

The video explains everything. If you cared enough to know who is actually right, you'd watch it. But you don't, especially since you jumped to conclusions about my motive, and use the word "broken" for characters.

Edit: Your post confuses me the more that I think about it. When did my posts ever have anything to do with me? Maybe you're just trying to allude to me downplaying Alien as a way to dismiss the points that I've made. Whatever, it's like when you're arguing with a women in a very mild fashion and they start going overboard. Maybe you're still butthurt about that 10-0 that I dished you the last time you played me on MK.

Not being good with Alien takes real skill, I'll admit. idk whether to give you props for that or for being proud of beating my week 1 Spec ops Cassie in a ft5. Displaylag.com is the reference everyone cites, from twitch monsters to Redbull E-sports articles. I don't have to watch a video telling me what I already know, especially from a guy who, the other day, thought normals in sfv could be special canceled on whiff or who thinks ggpo has literally anything to do with native input lag.

Anyways, I brought you up because your points are based off your limited experience with fgs, which sums up to a year and a half of mkx and yet here you are talking about dragon's mastery of his craft being on the same level as sf evo champions because they win with toptier in their respective games... why did I even bother?

 

[Rude]

Such fucking savagery.

I swear, someone needs to take these TYM rivalries and stream a card of nothing but people that can't fucking stand each other from TYM.

I'd watch the shit out of that.

Anyway, regarding the topic at hand:

Why was MKX in some warehouse and not in the convention center of whatever hotel was billed as the venue hotel? Not enough space?

 

[SewerRat]

I found it despicable sitting on a cement slab for an entire day after paying a respectable amount of money to compete. Even high school gymnasiums have better seating than what we were provided. People utter, "this is the premier fighting game tournament" yet we were treated as bums.

The competition though is not replicable. EVO is a fierce tournament.

 

[RM AtK!]

Fyi i've never been to an evo where we could all sit... --- ever....

i honestly think im the only one that didn't mind the venue. TBH i barely ever smelled BO as well, which is like a fuckin FGC miracle. the dream is real imo well worth