Who would dominate? If Kabal and Kenshi were gone.

[Alien Substance]

I'd say everyone who has a bad matchup against Kabal and Kenshi would rise a bit.

 

[Peckapowa]

I'd say everyone who has a bad matchup against Kabal and Kenshi would rise a bit.

so everyone would rise?? lol

 

[Alien Substance]

so everyone would rise?? lol

In the "being played as, at tournaments" department. Without the tyranny of Kabal and Kenshi, they would have at least one less bad matchup.

 

[Red Reaper]

your off, sonya has a much easier time getting in on liu and up close he has serious issues because of his lack of a good down-1 and good armor options, any1 whose zoning isnt broken has a rough time with sonya... sektor is a footsies battle i know that matchup by heart but sektors footsie tools are superior to liu, its close to 5-5 but in sektors favor imo.... liu kangs suspect dash speed makes the smoke matchup suspect and the noob matchup is slightly in noobs favor because his rushdown isnt maintainable as someone like johnnys, it could be a 5-5

kung lao and cage are also suspect 5-5's, along with reptile in my opinion.

freddy kreuger is a horrible matchup 3-7 at best... liu has nothing in this matchup

How is Liu's Zoning not as good as Kabal's? Even his Standing Fireball is good. Let alone instants. Plus he has good and fast footsies.

For the Sektor Match Up: Liu's Footsies are Faster. Liu's B3 and F1 are 10 Frames while Sektor's B3 is 12 and his B1 is 16.

 

[Peckapowa]

How is Liu's Zoning not as good as Kabal's? Even his Standing Fireball is good. Let alone instants. Plus he has good and fast footsies.

For the Sektor Match Up: Liu's Footsies are Faster. Liu's B3 and F1 are 10 Frames while Sektor's B3 is 12 and his B1 is 16.

his instants aren't as fast as kabals let alone as susceptible too human era and lead to full combos if jumped, his low fireball doesnt have pushback on the level of kabals buzzsaw or startup frames, and he doesnt have a cancellable dash to fuck your entire footsie and spacing game in the ass... its not really a contest... liu does have amazing footsies though especially when has has the zoning advantage... liu kangs zoning is much easier to react too.


sektor has better range and his strings are more defensive oriented in positioning, ive played that matchup 8 million times... ive said its 5-5 before ill say its arguably 4-6...

 

[Peckapowa]

In the "being played as, at tournaments" department. Without the tyranny of Kabal and Kenshi, they would have at least one less bad matchup.

well everyone loses to kabal and almost everyone loses to kenshi was my argument.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I am no expert or anything and don't play offline but Cyrax is ridiculous. I recently picked him up for online play and like others have said, he is NEVER out of the game as long as he has meter.

I've played about 50 online matches with him and of the ones I was getting beat on badly, I had a "Net and a dream" and came back on a lot of occasions where I would of lost with playing as Rep or Ermac easily.

Even with very little health, if I can pull off one of my BNB combos for 55% or 49% that puts me back in the match and usually the opponents game falls apart because they worry about my nets and they try to save meter to try and break.

I think Cyraxs psychological game is his best asset.

 

[ForeverKing]

^lolol evo is only tournament that matters

Obviously. But you must have missed the part of argument when the other guy said "Kung Lao has won like 86 tournaments."

Correction: Kung Lao has won 2 majors, and alot of local tournaments

 

[Dizzy]

If they got banned, Kabal and Kenshi mains would go to Cyrax and Sonya. That would actually be bad for KL players, IMO

 

[joemabob]

Obviously. But you must have missed the part of argument when the other guy said "Kung Lao has won like 86 tournaments."

Correction: Kung Lao has won 2 majors, and alot of local tournaments

ohhh lolol didn't see that haha who ever said kung has won that many is dumbass or troll

 

[STRYKIE]

I like how this thread pretty much confirms that the new #1 would magically have no bad matchups with no rational discussion behind why they wouldn't lose to anyone.

But I guess that's why Kabal's "game-breaking" zoning helping him win 5/6 matchups is still a talking point in MK9.

 

[ForeverKing]

I like how this thread pretty much confirms that the new #1 would magically have no bad matchups with no rational discussion behind why they wouldn't lose to anyone.

But I guess that's why Kabal's "game-breaking" zoning helping him win 5/6 matchups is still a talking point in MK9.

Kabal doesn't have bad match-ups OR even match-ups. I've already explained this a million times so I'm not about to do it again lol

But Cyrax has a ton of even match-ups and only 1 bad match-up, Kabal. So people are saying if Kabal was banned than Cyrax would have no bad match-ups, which is true. But he would still have a ton of 5-5 match-ups so he wouldn't be as bad as Kabal was

 

[Alien Substance]

Without Kabal, Kratos would lose the distinction he possesses for being the only character to go 5-5 against him.
Additionally, Kratos would no longer have his only 2-8 matchup. (Against Kenshi)
#noonecares ;_;

 

[joemabob]

i think freddy jax n katana beat cryax.. but thats just my opinion... lol

 

[STRYKIE]

Kabal doesn't have bad match-ups OR even match-ups. I've already explained this a million times so I'm not about to do it again lol

But Cyrax has a ton of even match-ups and only 1 bad match-up, Kabal. So people are saying if Kabal was banned than Cyrax would have no bad match-ups, which is true. But he would still have a ton of 5-5 match-ups so he wouldn't be as bad as Kabal was

Well, that's part of the problem, Kabal has become more hated for what he doesn't need more than what his most effective tools actually are. Sektor for example, sure, he can iaTU iaGBs, but who cares when Kabal doesn't even need to jump to win the matchup? And then there's Cage who it's easier for Kabal to just zone out, but it's nothing his rushdown can't handle.

On the other hand, I'm just pointing out this has been the consensus since the Vanilla days, back when I played Kung Lao (not out of tier whoring or anything, I only dropped him because I couldn't keep up with guys like you, PL and F0xy in terms of execution), I stressed that Kitana was a bad matchup for Lao and got blown up for it because "Lao was #1", of course his mobility is a whole different ball game today, but by now I'm sure it has crossed every top Lao player's mind that he loses to Kitana, even if they've since changed their opinion.

In summary, I don't think it necessarily matters how many bad or even matchups the #1 in this game has, most of the community just can't accept there being a #1 character to begin with, Cyrax would eventually take the same flack Kabal currently does. And it would get to the point where at the highest level we should all just crouch block at full screen the entire round and let the timer run down until the CPU picks a winner at random as a means of keeping all matchups 5-5. lol

 

[Red Reaper]

his instants aren't as fast as kabals let alone as susceptible too human era and lead to full combos if jumped, his low fireball doesnt have pushback on the level of kabals buzzsaw or startup frames, and he doesnt have a cancellable dash to fuck your entire footsie and spacing game in the ass... its not really a contest... liu does have amazing footsies though especially when has has the zoning advantage... liu kangs zoning is much easier to react too.


sektor has better range and his strings are more defensive oriented in positioning, ive played that matchup 8 million times... ive said its 5-5 before ill say its arguably 4-6...

You kan't jump Liu Kang's Instant Air Fireballs. Liu Kang would actually outzone Kabal if he didn't have EX Nomad Dash.

 

[Peckapowa]

You kan't jump Liu Kang's Instant Air Fireballs. Liu Kang would actually outzone Kabal if he didn't have EX Nomad Dash.

hed outzone kabal, but that doesnt make him a better zoner or harder to deal with, thats 1 matchup. kabal is 10 times harder to deal with.

sindel outzones kenshi but kenshi is ten times harder to deal with in most other matchups.

 

[Flagg]

If those two are not in the roster, then clearly Cyrax, Smoke, Kung Lao and Skarlet are next dominate.

 

[Peckapowa]

cyrax would still have losing matchups

 

[Red Reaper]

hed outzone kabal, but that doesnt make him a better zoner or harder to deal with, thats 1 matchup. kabal is 10 times harder to deal with.

sindel outzones kenshi but kenshi is ten times harder to deal with in most other matchups.

Kabal has armor. My point is that Liu Kang's Zoning is like Kabals without armor and a faster start up Saw. He also kounter zones with low fireball in some match ups.

Sindel only outzones Kenshi Online.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I used to think Kabal was broken, then along came Seerax

 

[Peckapowa]

Kabal has armor. My point is that Liu Kang's Zoning is like Kabals without armor and a faster start up Saw. He also kounter zones with low fireball in some match ups.

Sindel only outzones Kenshi Online.

no... lius zoning is not nearly as hard to deal with as kabals.... the low fireball isnt faster startup than the buzzsaw(its 9 frame startup)... you can jump over lows on reaction... you do not have to deal with dash cancel fake.... kabals instants are faster...

 

[Peckapowa]

If those two are not in the roster, then clearly Cyrax, Smoke, Kung Lao and Skarlet are next dominate.

freddy...

 

[Red Reaper]

no... lius zoning is not nearly as hard to deal with as kabals.... the low fireball isnt faster startup than the buzzsaw(its 9 frame startup)... you can jump over lows on reaction... you do not have to deal with dash cancel fake.... kabals instants are faster...

Liu's low fireballs duck unlike saw. That's what I meant by kounter zoning. Anyway, my main point is that Liu Kang would be the runner up "Kabal" with Kenshi and Kabal gone. He goes even or better with the rest of the kast with the exception of Freddy (which may be arguable).

Even if Freddy does win against Liu Kang, he still has more bad match ups than Liu does. Both Smoke and Cyrax, beat Freddy. Plus maybe some others I'm forgetting about.

 

[coolwhip]

Liu's low fireballs duck unlike saw. That's what I meant by kounter zoning. Anyway, my main point is that Liu Kang would be the runner up "Kabal" with Kenshi and Kabal gone. He goes even or better with the rest of the kast with the exception of Freddy (which may be arguable).

Even if Freddy does win against Liu Kang, he still has more bad match ups than Liu does. Both Smoke and Cyrax, beat Freddy. Plus maybe some others I'm forgetting about.

But that implies that Liu's problems now are strictly Kabal and Kenshi. He's a solid characters, who has no absolutely horrible match-ups or anything beyond Kenshi. I'd also point that Liu Kang most likely loses to Kung Lao. Liu's problems won't change that much, due to his hitbox, poor D1, etc...