What's new

Who needs to use top tier to place?

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So are you off Kano yet bro? :( Don't be a fool, swap up to Hat Trick
Haha yea I'm a leg and a half out the door. I'm waiting to see if he gets anything in the upcoming patch. If he gets nothing or something stupid like a Jacqui patch note both legs will be out while slamming the door. If he gets something worthwhile I'll stick him out. I'm going to Summer Jam so I hope the patch is either very soon or after the major lol.

I've been mainly messing around with HQT Pred, Demo Sonya, and Hat Trick Lao the last couple of weeks so if I can improve enough with one of them I'll be using them at the tourney instead. Definitely might have to pick your brain for more Lao knowledge real soon lol.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Compared to Predator, Kung Lao, Tanya, Shinnok, and Cassie? Or even Jax, Raiden, Quan?

No sir. Not even close.


EDIT - OH YEAH forgot D'Vorah
He actually is on par with all of them, I'm not sure where all this talk of Erron Black not being S tier is coming from.

Relatively safe 50/50s, great advancing normals, has great pressure and chip across all his variations, best tick throw setups in the game, best runspeed in the game, Outlaw gives him a great NJP, massive damage, and an armored launcher, and Marksman gives him a completely safe 50/50 game, actual Anti-zoning, better mindgame pressure, and good damage as well. Where is he lacking?
 
Last edited:

SS_RedShadow

I lost because of Player 1 advantage.
She is good mid tier after the buffs bro. SonicFox is just good.
Lol, Kitana not top tier after buffs? Get outta here man, She is safe on almost all of her strings now and she gets anywhere from 35% to 40% METERLESS damage off of a mistake that your opponent will no doubt make after you keep zoning which Kitana is the best at in this game.

She is top tier for sure but is SonicFox good? Yeah he is, nobody can argue that, he proved himself. Does he use top tier characters to win? Yes he does. But so do other players who don't do as well as he does.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
He actually is on par with all of them, I'm not sure where all this talk of Erron Black not being S tier is coming from.

Relatively safe 50/50s, great advancing normals, has great pressure and chip across all his variations, best tick throw setups in the game, best runspeed in the game, Outlaw gives him a great NJP, massive damage, and an armored launcher, and Marksman gives him a completely safe 50/50 game, actual Anti-zoning, better mindgame pressure, and good damage as well. Where is he lacking?
Derptile kinda knows his stuff
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
He actually is on par with all of them, I'm not sure where all this talk of Erron Black not being S tier is coming from.

Relatively safe 50/50s, great advancing normals, has great pressure and chip across all his variations, best tick throw setups in the game, best runspeed in the game, Outlaw gives him a great NJP, massive damage, and an armored launcher, and Marksman gives him a completely safe 50/50 game, actual Anti-zoning, better mindgame pressure, and good damage as well. Where is he lacking?
The fact that people STILL don't want to acknowledge Erron is sickening.
 

Bomborge

Aspiring scrub
He actually is on par with all of them, I'm not sure where all this talk of Erron Black not being S tier is coming from.

Relatively safe 50/50s, great advancing normals, has great pressure and chip across all his variations, best tick throw setups in the game, best runspeed in the game, Outlaw gives him a great NJP, massive damage, and an armored launcher, and Marksman gives him a completely safe 50/50 game, actual Anti-zoning, better mindgame pressure, and good damage as well. Where is he lacking?
He can also make his stuff safe with option selects in outlaw as well.
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
He actually is on par with all of them, I'm not sure where all this talk of Erron Black not being S tier is coming from.

Relatively safe 50/50s, great advancing normals, has great pressure and chip across all his variations, best tick throw setups in the game, best runspeed in the game, Outlaw gives him a great NJP, massive damage, and an armored launcher, and Marksman gives him a completely safe 50/50 game, actual Anti-zoning, better mindgame pressure, and good damage as well. Where is he lacking?
Its not where he is lacking but the fact that he doesn't completely control a game with one thing he does along with more options. Jax has safe projectiles along with crazy damage and pressure...completely controlling the pace all game, Predator's set ups make you second guess everything you do and if you get caught then you are getting hit hard and his other variation is best zoning in game, Shinnok doesn't let people play the game at all, Kung Lao has the best overall speed in game with fast tele, consistent pressure, fast dive kick with the godlike Tempest spin and hat set ups, Erron has NOTHING he can do vs Quan's full screen if Quan has meter.

See one character can be great at several things but in this game that'd hardly enough with characters that have zero bad matchups. I can respect what you are saying, I just think SonicFox makes the character look top 5 but Erron Black is kinda popular...he is the only one cracking top 8...Arma gets close but other than those two, nothing.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Its not where he is lacking but the fact that he doesn't completely control a game with one thing he does along with more options. Jax has safe projectiles along with crazy damage and pressure...completely controlling the pace all game, Predator's set ups make you second guess everything you do and if you get caught then you are getting hit hard and his other variation is best zoning in game, Shinnok doesn't let people play the game at all, Kung Lao has the best overall speed in game with fast tele, consistent pressure, fast dive kick with the godlike Tempest spin and hat set ups, Erron has NOTHING he can do vs Quan's full screen if Quan has meter.

See one character can be great at several things but in this game that'd hardly enough with characters that have zero bad matchups. I can respect what you are saying, I just think SonicFox makes the character look top 5 but Erron Black is kinda popular...he is the only one cracking top 8...Arma gets close but other than those two, nothing.
Dude, If Erron Touches you once, he has the potential to take the entire round easily. That works against the entire cast, and do you know who that works especially well against? Quan Chi. Sure he has a hard time getting in, but if he does, Quan is in a hell of a lot more trouble than Erron ever was.

Seriously, from 3 quarter screen Erron is one meter burn slide away from knocking Quan on his ass. Sure he can't do much from full screen, but at 3 quarter screen he has to make Quan think or he will pay dearly.
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
Anyone who has EVER mained Sub Zero does not need top tiers to place... Sub Zero has a klone therefor Sub Zero is broken tier
#NERFKLONE #BUFFSHINNOK :DOGE
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Dude, If Erron Touches you once, he has the potential to take the entire round easily. That works against the entire cast, and do you know who that works especially well against? Quan Chi. Sure he has a hard time getting in, but if he does, Quan is in a hell of a lot more trouble than Erron ever was.

Seriously, from 3 quarter screen Erron is one meter burn slide away from knocking Quan on his ass. Sure he can't do much from full screen, but at 3 quarter screen he has to make Quan think or he will pay dearly.
Can't do much from full screen? Hard knockdown low projectiles. He just needs to nade you once, then boom.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Dude, If Erron Touches you once, he has the potential to take the entire round easily. That works against the entire cast, and do you know who that works especially well against? Quan Chi. Sure he has a hard time getting in, but if he does, Quan is in a hell of a lot more trouble than Erron ever was.

Seriously, from 3 quarter screen Erron is one meter burn slide away from knocking Quan on his ass. Sure he can't do much from full screen, but at 3 quarter screen he has to make Quan think or he will pay dearly.
Erron Black has no trouble getting in on anyone. Godtier runspeed, Slide, Command Grab, advancing normals, and he can still throw nades down and use them as poverty reptile slimeballs.
 

Insuperable

My mom tells me I'm pretty
yall yung bludz don't recognize somemthing

Sonic Fox was getting bopped when he was playing Harely early in Injustice. Then, he took over when Batgirl dropped. When you're given a top tier character with the toolsets you need, your fundamentals improve because you're basing your character around a great toolset. After rolling over people with Batgirl, even his Joker was strong.

The reason top tier is good because even when you have to play the opponents' game, your toolset is strong enough to not be violated by their game
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Lol, Kitana not top tier after buffs? Get outta here man, She is safe on almost all of her strings now and she gets anywhere from 35% to 40% METERLESS damage off of a mistake that your opponent will no doubt make after you keep zoning which Kitana is the best at in this game.

She is top tier for sure but is SonicFox good? Yeah he is, nobody can argue that, he proved himself. Does he use top tier characters to win? Yes he does. But so do other players who don't do as well as he does.
Kitana does not have the best zoning. Maybe she would if Predator and Shinnok didn't exist. She lacks mixups to open people up. How else is she getting damage than from powerful punishes?

She's a hit and run, keepaway character that punishes mistakes hard. If she didn't punish hard and people felt comfortable taking more risks against her it would severely hinder her overall design.

She is not top tier. She's a solid upper mid.
 

SS_RedShadow

I lost because of Player 1 advantage.
Kitana does not have the best zoning. Maybe she would if Predator and Shinnok didn't exist. She lacks mixups to open people up. How else is she getting damage than from powerful punishes?

She's a hit and run, keepaway character that punishes mistakes hard. If she didn't punish hard and people felt comfortable taking more risks against her it would severely hinder her overall design.

She is not top tier. She's a solid upper mid.
I don't get what people's problem are with Mix-ups. The game is NOT about mix-ups and mix-ups only. Players who have zero idea how to play the game count on Mix-ups to win them the match but Tempest Kung Lao doesn't have a low starter and he is still top tier. Predator doesn't have an overhead starter and he is still kicking ass and is top tier. This game is more than a 50/50.

Kitana's instant air fans are stupid good and on par with her MK9 instant air fans if not bettter. Opening up your opponent is not about 50/50s it's about YOU. Kitana has got an Overhead and she has got a Low and even if she didn't have those she would still be good because what she lacks in so called "mix-ups" she more than makes up for in Meter building/Zoning/Frame Traps and High damaging combos.

Day 1 Kitana is complete ass compared to now, stop down playing your character and learn her strengths because she does have a lot to offer.
 
Its not where he is lacking but the fact that he doesn't completely control a game with one thing he does along with more options. Jax has safe projectiles along with crazy damage and pressure...completely controlling the pace all game, Predator's set ups make you second guess everything you do and if you get caught then you are getting hit hard and his other variation is best zoning in game, Shinnok doesn't let people play the game at all, Kung Lao has the best overall speed in game with fast tele, consistent pressure, fast dive kick with the godlike Tempest spin and hat set ups, Erron has NOTHING he can do vs Quan's full screen if Quan has meter.

See one character can be great at several things but in this game that'd hardly enough with characters that have zero bad matchups. I can respect what you are saying, I just think SonicFox makes the character look top 5 but Erron Black is kinda popular...he is the only one cracking top 8...Arma gets close but other than those two, nothing.
incorrect
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
Dude, If Erron Touches you once, he has the potential to take the entire round easily. That works against the entire cast, and do you know who that works especially well against? Quan Chi. Sure he has a hard time getting in, but if he does, Quan is in a hell of a lot more trouble than Erron ever was.

Seriously, from 3 quarter screen Erron is one meter burn slide away from knocking Quan on his ass. Sure he can't do much from full screen, but at 3 quarter screen he has to make Quan think or he will pay dearly.
Correct. Just hope Quan doesn't block and punish to full screen. Erron Black is not the only character that has touch of death but there are other characters that do a better job dealing with zoning. And you can't tell me I'm wrong.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
Win or lose, top tier users are the world's biggest cowards.
I would say it's inverted. When people play top tier they have no excuse when they lose. It was their lose for them to learn from and their character had the tools to take them to victory. On the other hand, how many times have lower-tier players made the excuse that they would have won if they played a top tier character? I'd say countless in my experience. To me that's cowardly, they are afraid to place the blame on their own game play and instead pawn it off on their character's shortcomings. No excuses, winning feels better than losing every time and for sure feels better than calling other players cowards instead of learning to beat them.
 

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
I would say it's inverted. When people play top tier they have no excuse when they lose. It was their lose for them to learn from and their character had the tools to take them to victory. On the other hand, how many times have lower-tier players made the excuse that they would have won if they played a top tier character? I'd say countless in my experience. To me that's cowardly, they are afraid to place the blame on their own game play and instead pawn it off on their character's shortcomings. No excuses, winning feels better than losing every time and for sure feels better than calling other players cowards instead of learning to beat them.
Stop. Cowards use top tier because they are afraid they'll lose with a legit character.