Question - A-List Who is still playing Cage?

[Zionix]

Yeah. I'd probably say Buzzsaw is the best variation out of the two characters, but overall I think they're both mid tier.

The sheer fact that you're trying to compare these two completely different characters with different tool-sets and footsie tools, shows how out of your depth you are in this discussion.

 

[Tweedy]

The sheer fact that you're trying to compare these two completely different characters with different tool-sets and footsie tools, shows how out of your depth you are in this discussion.

I'm not "out of depth" at all. I'm just saying that I think they're both mid tier. I also compared the complaining about wake ups.

Can you quote me and provide something substantial? Saying i'm out of depth for comparing them does nothing. Tell me why this is.

And no, getting likes on your posts from fellow Cage downplayers does not do this.

 

[Zionix]

I'm not "out of depth" at all. I'm just saying that I think they're both mid tier. I also compared the complaining about wake ups.

Can you quote me and provide something substantial? Saying i'm out of depth for comparing them does nothing. Tell me why this is.

And no, getting likes on your posts from fellow Cage downplayers does not do this.

Cage and Lao are two completely different characters so comparing them and their wake-up options is ridiculous. I am not even gonna pretend to know how useful ex teleport is for lao, but there is no comparison to shadow-kick.

Jax would of been a better comparison wake-up wise although I believe he has two options; one of which stop jump ins on a read in all variations, so again better. Jax also has better frame data pokes and can poke into safe gotcha grab to catch counter-pokes, all of which add to his defense when trying to get out of bad situations. Is pumped ups armored gotcha grab 22% and mid? LOL I'm out of my depth

If you want to provide meaningful discussion, discuss a character that has similar defensive options to cage, I'm coming up empty. Jackie maybe? Is her 0 on block 1 bar armor a mid though?

 

[Wigy]

Yeaaah tweedys just trolling.

Took me too long to realise that one

 

[Zionix]

Yeaaah tweedys just trolling.

Took me too long to realise that one

Forum banter is all some of us have.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Forum banter is all some of us have.

For one it's super hard to take someone like this serious to me.

Everyone on this site downplays the shit out of the characters they play and only guy arguing with them is a dude who it doesn't matter to because he's going to use whatever character is in the top 10 after patches anyways. Didn't you make like an entire post about alien not being that bad? Lol

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Jesus, all it took was one post brining Lao's in. Come on now, let's put this discussion down to bed or else where. Folks were Takin' about JC and let'em to do so. We all want what's best for our character but I don't think this is the right spot to blend in one with another. You'all have a good evening gentleman,

 

[llabslb]

You guys had to take the bait smh...

 

[Zionix]

The troll is back in his cupboard it seems

 

[LaidbackOne]

Why are you people still trying to take anything this guy writes seriously?

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Why are you people still trying to take anything this guy writes seriously?

Gosh, I dont know ... maybe because for a second I thought he might be serious. I really wouldnt be surprised if he would ...

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I do agree that his s1 needs to be faster. When Tremor, Triborg, Raiden, Kung Lao (more than halfof the casts).....now alll got 7f advancing hit confirmable high to punish stuffs, he's still stuck with a 9f short s1
Edit: Cage is only character who can't punish Alien's F134, PU Jax Gotcha, Slasher's B122, Mileena's F44, Predator 321+3, Tanya's B1D2 on block, which makes those already uncomfortable matchups worse for him. He also has a lot of trouble punishing -10 stuffs

 

[Wigy]

I do agree that his s1 needs to be faster. When Tremor, Triborg, Raiden, Kung Lao (more than halfof the casts).....now alll got 7f advancing hit confirmable high to punish stuffs, he's still stuck with a 9f short s1
Edit: Cage is only character who can't punish Alien's F134, PU Jax Gotcha, Slasher's B122, Mileena's F44, Predator 321+3, Tanya's B1D2 on block, which makes those already uncomfortable matchups worse for him. He also has a lot of trouble punishing -10 stuffs

This.

Just about everyone in the cast has faster moves than him. Hes meant to be rushdown lol.

 

[xSamuel]

Haven't really been keeping up on this thread but here are my two cents on A-List:
I think A-List is still good because F3 is one of the best normals in the game, it's usefulness as a normal is incredible (plus on block, 11 frame advancing mid, combo starter on dash, great whiff punisher, etc) besides his staggers and cancels being great. Armored launchers got removed for the most part so his pressure is more of a read on when they're going to back dash. Ex Shadow Kick is still a good way to get in on zoning and a decent wake up. Granted, it can be scouted and punished but most of the armor in the game can be scouted and punished or blocked and punished, take your pick. I think he has his problems and the patch definitely didn't help him but he also has a lot of positives that make him viable. I've messed with a lot of other characters, mostly to get used to their new adjustments, and find myself going back to Johnny. Could just be my love for his cocky attitude

 

[Nedyrc]

Haven't really been keeping up on this thread but here are my two cents on A-List:
I think A-List is still good because F3 is one of the best normals in the game

His f3 is the only thing he has.. And even with f3 you dont need to respect cage as much because f3 cancel 1 no longer jails which means after jc f3 you you can d1 check against everything other than f3(unless your execution is frame perfect every time and you manage to hit f2 against chars with 7 frame d1 (and it still trades against 7f because they are crouching so f2 hits in its 2. or 3. active frame). yes 6 frame d1 wins against f2.) which is punishable if you dont run cancel it.. Johnny no longer needs to be respected. One of the two nerfs was enough but balance team decided to nuke him just in case more people cried about how unbalanced jc is. He was pretty good, sure, but unlike vanilla alien, vanilla quan, old kobu tanya etc. he required high execution and still was not as good as those characters. Now it doesnt really matter you can pick a character you just spent 2 hours on and still win more games than you could with day 1 a-list. AND WTF IS THAT D3

Edit: wait now that i think about it.. s1 doesnt jail after f3 which means f3, when perfectly cancelled is +8 at best. Which means 15 frame f2 = 7 frame after f3. Which means it can be beaten or at best traded by d1' of everyone in the cast. Its not just me right? it should be impossible to jail 1 after f1 now. (Or im not used to new cancel timings)

Edit: opsie i misstyped 8 instead of 9 and some of calculations are wrong by 1 frame. Doesnt matter tho lul

 

[llabslb]

He's still plus after F3 so condition your opponent accordingly. For me the problem is how he checks his opponent if he makes a read. Meanwhile Kang and Lao are able to check their opponents with staggerable mids. Also those mids at max range force the opponent to make more reads. If Cage makes a read with F3 he has to commit but there's no exact safety if he makes the wrong read regardless how he's spaced unlike Lao doing F2 at max range, Cage will get punished. He has to check his opponent with either a poke or F3. We can't truly capitalise on our opponents pressing buttons like others.

 

[llabslb]

His f3 is the only thing he has.. And even with f3 you dont need to respect cage as much because f3 cancel 1 no longer jails which means after jc f3 you you can d1 check against everything other than f3(unless your execution is frame perfect every time and you manage to hit f2 against chars with 7 frame d1 (and it still trades against 7f because they are crouching so f2 hits in its 2. or 3. active frame). yes 6 frame d1 wins against f2.) which is punishable if you dont run cancel it.. Johnny no longer needs to be respected. One of the two nerfs was enough but balance team decided to nuke him just in case more people cried about how unbalanced jc is. He was pretty good, sure, but unlike vanilla alien, vanilla quan, old kobu tanya etc. he required high execution and still was not as good as those characters. Now it doesnt really matter you can pick a character you just spent 2 hours on and still win more games than you could with day 1 a-list. AND WTF IS THAT D3

Just stop

 

[YUZU_RZA]

This thread won't die :'(

 

[Nedyrc]

Just stop

 

[xSamuel]

There are still options outside of jailing. The only reason jailing your cancel was so important was to prevent one bar armored launchers coming through and wrecking your life.

First off @Nedyrc why are you using F2 and not F24? You know, the safe launching overhead string...
Secondly, I started using F3SKRC, instead of F3(4), for the extra plus frames. Regardless of what F3 cancel you are using you still have options. If they are pushing buttons then try another F3 dash cancel. It's a frame trap, catches some back dashes, and is a full combo on hit. If not that, then try 12 dash cancel or D4. Recognizing your options after specific cancels is up to you, I got you started so go check it out. Btw, Johnny wasn't pretty good, he was insane. 7% chip and building a bar of meter off every touch was pretty crazy and that's just if he didn't want to get to mixing and staggering .

@llabslb I don't understand what you're saying. You don't think it's right that you get punished for whiffing?

 

[xSamuel]

His f3 is the only thing he has.. And even with f3 you dont need to respect cage as much because f3 cancel 1 no longer jails which means after jc f3 you you can d1 check against everything other than f3(unless your execution is frame perfect every time and you manage to hit f2 against chars with 7 frame d1 (and it still trades against 7f because they are crouching so f2 hits in its 2. or 3. active frame). yes 6 frame d1 wins against f2.) which is punishable if you dont run cancel it.. Johnny no longer needs to be respected. One of the two nerfs was enough but balance team decided to nuke him just in case more people cried about how unbalanced jc is. He was pretty good, sure, but unlike vanilla alien, vanilla quan, old kobu tanya etc. he required high execution and still was not as good as those characters. Now it doesnt really matter you can pick a character you just spent 2 hours on and still win more games than you could with day 1 a-list. AND WTF IS THAT D3

Edit: wait now that i think about it.. s1 doesnt jail after f3 which means f3, when perfectly cancelled is +7 at best. Which means 15 frame f2 = 8 frame after f3. Which means it can be beaten or at best traded by d1' of everyone in the cast. Its not just me right? it should be impossible to jail 1 after f1 now. (Or im not used to new cancel timings)

Johnny's stand 1 is 9 frames. If it doesn't jail then that means, at worst it's +8.... WHO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT +8 OFF A FORWARD ADVANCING MID smh

 

[Asodimazze]

I don't know what you guys are saying, when cancelled perfectly f3skrc is +12 on block. It still jails into s1, s2, f3.

The problem is that (like I said a billion times) the cancel timing is way too different on block and on hit, so you can't prepare to execute it well enough to jail if the opponent blocks. Also, executing it properly is super weird and feels unnatural even after one month, it's just clunchy. Being forced to wait 5 frames before cancelling SKRC is just dumb.

 

[llabslb]

There are still options outside of jailing. The only reason jailing your cancel was so important was to prevent one bar armored launchers coming through and wrecking your life.

First off @Nedyrc why are you using F2 and not F24? You know, the safe launching overhead string...
Secondly, I started using F3SKRC, instead of F3(4), for the extra plus frames. Regardless of what F3 cancel you are using you still have options. If they are pushing buttons then try another F3 dash cancel. It's a frame trap, catches some back dashes, and is a full combo on hit. If not that, then try 12 dash cancel or D4. Recognizing your options after specific cancels is up to you, I got you started so go check it out. Btw, Johnny wasn't pretty good, he was insane. 7% chip and building a bar of meter off every touch was pretty crazy and that's just if he didn't want to get to mixing and staggering .

@llabslb I don't understand what you're saying. You don't think it's right that you get punished for whiffing?

No, what I'm saying is If my opponent blocks F3 and I read they're going to poke my options aren't as strong and safe in comparison to the characters I mentioned. If Kang does F44 fbrc which is around +4, he's still able to check most of the cast with his F2. If the opponent blocks his F2 check he can commit to stagger pressure (F2, F21, F213, F213 DB2, F213 BF2MB) which leads into plenty of mind games and opportunities to grab. Also if Kang does his F2 at max range it'll force the opponent to make a read. If they make the wrong read (poke) Kang can get a full combo by punishing the recovery of the button that was pressed. Meanwhile with Cage, if you block his F3 he HAS to commit into a check or simply block. His checking options are his pokes and F3. If I make the right read I get a combo, that's swell. If I make the wrong read I die. Kang doesn't have this issue.

 

[xSamuel]

I don't know what you guys are saying, when cancelled perfectly f3skrc is +12 on block. It still jails into s1, s2, f3.

The problem is that (like I said a billion times) the cancel timing is way too different on block and on hit, so you can't prepare to execute it well enough to jail if the opponent blocks. Also, executing it properly is super weird and feels unnatural even after one month, it's just clunchy. Being forced to wait 5 frames before cancelling SKRC is just dumb.

I thought I remembered posting some frames like that after the patch. I've heard you say this multiple times but I'm still not familiar with what you're talking about. What would happen if you were to prepare to jail the cancel on block and they got hit?

@llabslb Using F3SKRC you get S1 stagger pressure on block, guaranteed.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying A-List has all of these options and we're just being babies. His fastest punisher is 9 frames, his D3 is next to useless, his jump is free to AA, and his armor isn't great. I'm just saying that there are still some positives and people looking to play him can still make him work with practice.

 

[llabslb]

I thought I remembered posting some frames like that after the patch. I've heard you say this multiple times but I'm still not familiar with what you're talking about. What would happen if you were to prepare to jail the cancel on block and they got hit?

If the opponent is blocking and you were to use the same timing for the SKRC required on hit. F34 will probably come out.