Question - A-List Who is still playing Cage?

[Wigy]

You're making this about something it's not. Go back and actually read before making statements. Also I'd like to see you point out where I'm speaking to you like the arbiter of Johnny Cage knowledge.

Go read your comments they're very smug and 'my opinion is final'

Go read my comments, i never said he wasnt viable just that hes not a good pick compared to other rushdown and his tools can be lackluster

Again, do you play cage? Or did u see one tourament with a very good cage player and decide, yep hes sick. Despite the entire cage community saying otherwise

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

You're overthinking this... It's purely hypothetical. However I disagree with a few of your points.

1) Tournament vigour can have something to do with it, but Irish has a pretty flawless record when it comes to beating Happypow online and when they played the day after, he just wanted to see if offline was the same. Same result. Keep in mind, Happypow also played the rest of us (including Crathen iirc) and beat us just like he did in tournament lol. There's a key difference between us and Irish though; he knows how to deal with the gimmicks really well, which gives him the edge, eventhough Happypow thinks Reptile wins the match up.

2) Being native to any console isn't a big deal at all. He's been playing on PS4 for weeks, if not months. It really doesn't take THAT long to get used to another pad. Having played on PS4/Xbox pads and Hitbox, I can tell you the difference isn't that big.

3) Yes you can always mention this argument, but if you consistently beat someone in casuals, it's a fair assumption that you will win in tournament if you're used to tournament pressure. Of course this isn't true 100% of the time, but winning in tournament when you usually lose any other time is not as common.

Yes he knows how to deal with the gimmicks and has he's own gimmicks too

I am not trying to take anything away from Irish, he is a good player. But the original comment made by Tweed was if mantis picked up possessed he would have won the tournament (or another character).

-So lets use that same logic then- lets say Irish struggles in the GM sub match up and if he picked someone else more capable he would be able to handle that match up.
-Now lets apply that to Irish and happypow and lets say Irish knows how to play that match up against reptile very well with johnny.
- Then i can just say the same thing twatty said which was (well if happypow picked another character that could deal with that match up better he would have won in the casuals).
See it never end its just a circle of who can counter pick better or pick a better match up. Thats why its the tournament results that counts.

The getting used to a controller thing is a big deal because xarakamaka struggled with it and was dropping combos and happypow struggled with it and was dropping combos he never drops. Maybe your just a controller god taco

btw - nice unbreakable

 

[rubmytaco]

Go read your comments they're very smug and 'my opinion is final'

Go read my comments, i never said he wasnt viable just that hes not a good pick compared to other rushdown and his tools can be lackluster

Again, do you play cage? Or did u see one tourament with a very good cage player and decide, yep hes sick. Despite the entire cage community saying otherwise

All I said was that Irishmantis makes him work. I didn't even mention any specific variation. You somehow made the assumption that I meant Stunt Double, when I never said anything about it, eventhough Irishmantis doesn't really use that variation anymore. I also never said anything about the character being viable or not.

And to answer your question, yes I do know how to play cage. He was my secondary for quite a while.

 

[Wigy]

All I said was that Irishmantis makes him work. I didn't even mention any specific variation. You somehow made the assumption that I meant Stunt Double, when I never said anything about it, eventhough Irishmantis doesn't really use that variation anymore. I also never said anything about the character being viable or not.

And to answer your question, yes I do know how to play cage. He was my secondary for quite a while.

Fair enough, just dont go into a discussion saying 'conversation over' its just completely douchey, shit i expect from some drunk basic bitch followed by some sassy hand movement

 

[Tweedy]

Good Dragon, find something to do man. Play the game or something.

I gave Mantis props in one sentence and you've dropped like 14 paragraphs about how i'm wrong, about how Taco is wrong, or whatever. I wasn't trying to diss Happypow, but even if I was, what are you gonna do about it? Type to me? Okay.

Aren't you the same guy who wrote letters to me about Heavy Weapons Jax, even personally insulting me, because I suggested that he could be played differently? I swear a fly could bug you and you'd devote a week of your time to writing a book about why flys are annoying. You put way too much effort in, for what people are coming at you with. Whether you're right or wrong, I think it's clear to everyone that you're a gigantic forum dwelling dungeon troll.

 

[rubmytaco]

Yes he knows how to deal with the gimmicks and has he's own gimmicks too

I am not trying to take anything away from Irish, he is a good player. But the original comment made by Tweed was if mantis picked up possessed he would have won the tournament (or another character).

-So lets use that same logic then- lets say Irish struggles in the GM sub match up and if he picked someone else more capable he would be able to handle that match up.
-Now lets apply that to Irish and happypow and lets say Irish knows how to play that match up against reptile very well with johnny.
- Then i can just say the same thing twatty said which was (well if happypow picked another character that could deal with that match up better he would have won in the casuals).
See it never end its just a circle of who can counter pick better or pick a better match up. Thats why its the tournament results that counts.

The getting used to a controller thing is a big deal because xarakamaka struggled with it and was dropping combos and happypow struggled with it and was dropping combos he never drops. Maybe your just a controller god taco

btw - nice unbreakable

Why are you bringing what Tweedy said into this? All I said was that Irish probably would've won if he was in grand finals instead of Crathen. Super hypothetical. Maybe even worded the wrong way. What I meant to say was that he probably wouldve beaten Happypow in tournament.

I kind of see what you mean with the counterpicking argument, but there's a difference between saying Irish could've won if he didn't play a 3-7 match up and wanting to counterpick to play a match up with a 7-3 advantage.

Xarakamaka played a cancel character with high execution. I can imagine your fingers getting tangled somehow with different buttons, but the reason Happypow was dropping things at AFK seemed to be related to online vs offline delay if you ask me.

I'm no controller god, but it doesn't take months to get used to a new controller if you're playing on it regularly, unless it's a completely different control scheme (c.q. Hitbox).

 

[rubmytaco]

Fair enough, just dont go into a discussion saying 'conversation over' its just completely douchey, shit i expect from some drunk basic bitch followed by some sassy hand movement

Are you saying I'm NOT a drunk basic bitch who makes sassy hand movements? Shows what you know.

 

[Wigy]

Are you saying I'm NOT a drunk basic bitch who makes sassy hand movements? Shows what you know.

The blowup is real, are you also called shaniqua or raquanda or sha nay nay

 

[rubmytaco]

The blowup is real, are you also called shaniqua or raquanda or sha nay nay

Laqueefa actually...

 

[llabslb]

Good Dragon, find something to do man. Play the game or something.

I gave Mantis props in one sentence and you've dropped like 14 paragraphs about how i'm wrong, about how Taco is wrong, or whatever. I wasn't trying to diss Happypow, but even if I was, what are you gonna do about it? Type to me? Okay.

Aren't you the same guy who wrote letters to me about Heavy Weapons Jax, even personally insulting me, because I suggested that he could be played differently? I swear a fly could bug you and you'd devote a week of your time to writing a book about why flys are annoying. You put way too much effort in, for what people are coming at you with. Whether you're right or wrong, I think it's clear to everyone that you're a gigantic forum dwelling dungeon troll.

No that was actually me, fuck you again btw.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

Why are you bringing what Tweedy said into this? All I said was that Irish probably would've won if he was in grand finals instead of Crathen. Super hypothetical. Maybe even worded the wrong way. What I meant to say was that he probably wouldve beaten Happypow in tournament.

I kind of see what you mean with the counterpicking argument, but there's a difference between saying Irish could've won if he didn't play a 3-7 match up and wanting to counterpick to play a match up with a 7-3 advantage.

Xarakamaka played a cancel character with high execution. I can imagine your fingers getting tangled somehow with different buttons, but the reason Happypow was dropping things at AFK seemed to be related to online vs offline delay if you ask me.

I'm no controller god, but it doesn't take months to get used to a new controller if you're playing on it regularly, unless it's a completely different control scheme (c.q. Hitbox).

I was referring to what twatty said because he was who i initially replied to and was the one who suggested irish picking up possessed for the match up.

Also reptile nimble isn't exactly the easiest character in the game some of his stuff has strict timing. But hey 7-3 match ups aren't absolutely unwinnable. (think Madzin won a couple of 7-3 match up with blood god).

Yes i would agree that the input delay between offline and online may have also played a part - but against all odds he pulled it out of his ass and took the win.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

Good Dragon, find something to do man. Play the game or something.

I gave Mantis props in one sentence and you've dropped like 14 paragraphs about how i'm wrong, about how Taco is wrong, or whatever. I wasn't trying to diss Happypow, but even if I was, what are you gonna do about it? Type to me? Okay.

Aren't you the same guy who wrote letters to me about Heavy Weapons Jax, even personally insulting me, because I suggested that he could be played differently? I swear a fly could bug you and you'd devote a week of your time to writing a book about why flys are annoying. You put way too much effort in, for what people are coming at you with. Whether you're right or wrong, I think it's clear to everyone that you're a gigantic forum dwelling dungeon troll.

Hahahahahaha. Your just realising i am a troll? Took you long enough. And whats with this whole what are you going to do about it thang- did i say i was gonna do anything?!
Hey if it was anyone else i wouldn't give 2 shits but because its you i have to put in extra time and effort debunking the silly things you say - Mr 95% of TYM is at my feet. I am still not over that btw and i just realised something omg how didn't i see it earlier. You are the Kanye of TYM.

 

[Killer Xinok]

This thread just went nuts..
And I dropped cage after Evo. Not even due to the patch, but due to my shitty drop against fox.
There's a player here in Brazil that is using him after all these patches, konqueror249, he is very good tbh

 

[Zionix]

All I got from this thread is that cage does damage, his life is hell and struggles against the a lot of the top tiers.

If you have a winning mindset and that's all you want, you drop him immediately. You will do better with another character.

If you aren't playing fisticuffs who has a 10 frame mid that's -3 and is one of the most brain dead staggers/baits in the game that leads to a 17% throw is +29 on hit (yes thats kano shit right there) that can be staggered into your overhead or d4; then you need to give it some lab time. This variation also has no stamina problems and you can still hit confirm F3 into buff(ex) F24 etc. It costs a bar of meter sure, have you seen b121 build meter on block? Or even 114 buff? its like 3/4 of a bar.

Anyway after my tremendous up-play the character is still in my opinion middle of the pack. It is extremely difficult to find new tech and I feel unless someone finds something ground breaking he will remain in a very difficult position and as Mantis put it 'betting on bracketology' to get far or win a major.

If you, are like me and picked up a-list for the creativity of the cancels, then that's gone. You get one cancel and most the time its F3 and then because you used F3 to get in you can't cancel 113 to confirm into say F4 or F24. Very linear game play, anti-airs aren't the best, you can play the same way with another character who has more kit to work with.

114 whiffs or ex forceballs have gone beyond funny, to the realm of "if this happened to be in a grand finals and I got reversal armored and lost, my controller would end up like pigs"

I have nothing but the utmost respect for mantis and will always be rooting for him come tournaments. The most audacious comment I've ever seen, anywhere was when someone called him a down-player. Gobsmacked

 

[Wigy]

The sheer retardedness of sub zero is enough to never play cage again

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

All I got from this thread is that cage does damage, his life is hell and struggles against the a lot of the top tiers.

If you have a winning mindset and that's all you want, you drop him immediately. You will do better with another character.

If you aren't playing fisticuffs who has a 10 frame mid that's -3 and is one of the most brain dead staggers/baits in the game that leads to a 17% throw is +29 on hit (yes thats kano shit right there) that can be staggered into your overhead or d4; then you need to give it some lab time. This variation also has no stamina problems and you can still hit confirm F3 into buff(ex) F24 etc. It costs a bar of meter sure, have you seen b121 build meter on block? Or even 114 buff? its like 3/4 of a bar.

Anyway after my tremendous up-play the character is still in my opinion middle of the pack. It is extremely difficult to find new tech and I feel unless someone finds something ground breaking he will remain in a very difficult position and as Mantis put it 'betting on bracketology' to get far or win a major.

If you, are like me and picked up a-list for the creativity of the cancels, then that's gone. You get one cancel and most the time its F3 and then because you used F3 to get in you can't cancel 113 to confirm into say F4 or F24. Very linear game play, anti-airs aren't the best, you can play the same way with another character who has more kit to work with.

114 whiffs or ex forceballs have gone beyond funny, to the realm of "if this happened to be in a grand finals and I got reversal armored and lost, my controller would end up like pigs"

I have nothing but the utmost respect for mantis and will always be rooting for him come tournaments. The most audacious comment I've ever seen, anywhere was when someone called him a down-player. Gobsmacked

So in summary cage is now a bench warmer?

 

[ismael4790]

All I got from this thread is that cage does damage, his life is hell and struggles against the a lot of the top tiers.

If you have a winning mindset and that's all you want, you drop him immediately. You will do better with another character.

If you aren't playing fisticuffs who has a 10 frame mid that's -3 and is one of the most brain dead staggers/baits in the game that leads to a 17% throw is +29 on hit (yes thats kano shit right there) that can be staggered into your overhead or d4; then you need to give it some lab time. This variation also has no stamina problems and you can still hit confirm F3 into buff(ex) F24 etc. It costs a bar of meter sure, have you seen b121 build meter on block? Or even 114 buff? its like 3/4 of a bar.

Anyway after my tremendous up-play the character is still in my opinion middle of the pack. It is extremely difficult to find new tech and I feel unless someone finds something ground breaking he will remain in a very difficult position and as Mantis put it 'betting on bracketology' to get far or win a major.

If you, are like me and picked up a-list for the creativity of the cancels, then that's gone. You get one cancel and most the time its F3 and then because you used F3 to get in you can't cancel 113 to confirm into say F4 or F24. Very linear game play, anti-airs aren't the best, you can play the same way with another character who has more kit to work with.

114 whiffs or ex forceballs have gone beyond funny, to the realm of "if this happened to be in a grand finals and I got reversal armored and lost, my controller would end up like pigs"

I have nothing but the utmost respect for mantis and will always be rooting for him come tournaments. The most audacious comment I've ever seen, anywhere was when someone called him a down-player. Gobsmacked

Lol to the on paper upplay of fisti.

Anyway I think this particular variation is okish now, if exflipkick had armor it would be very solid, now it's just ok. Not having mid wakeup is a very high price for the buffs he got. Also speedbag random inconsistencies are still there, that sucks considering that it is his main distinctive string.

There was an interesting small "secret" specific tech for fisti that was quite useful in certain matchups prepatch. It still works, but general changes reduced its effectivity. About ground breaking tech for the variation, I doubt there is nothing left to find.

 

[shura30]

Also speedbag random inconsistencies are still there, that sucks considering that it is his main distinctive string.

like he's the only one with string inconsistencies..
sadly the current hitboxes, pushbacks and stuns make too many strings whiff

I loved tho in the last kombat kast how they said the patch allowed better moveset variety

 

[ismael4790]

like he's the only one with string inconsistencies..
sadly the current hitboxes, pushbacks and stuns make too many strings whiff

I loved tho in the last kombat kast how they said the patch allowed better moveset variety

Check the post in my signature and you will see how bad the situation is. His inconsistencies vary depending on the character he's facing, and the different patterns for each one occur randomly, you can't have a plan, the tool is not what I would call reliable, specially when it is his main string to pressure in this variation.

It is ok that someone gets out of your pressure by a right decision, but not because one of the reps of your string randomly whiffs and gives him a free poke chance.

 

[IrishMantis]

Shit man it got intense in here real quick!!!!

i appreciate the compliments and name drops but i really dont want it to cause animosity at all.
Vs Crathen to me it doesn't matter if its a bad MU if i did not play that MU at the best i could, then to me i got outplayed and cannot blame the MU.

I wont lie these name drops did give me a slight semi.
its my fetish

 

[Wigy]

like he's the only one with string inconsistencies..
sadly the current hitboxes, pushbacks and stuns make too many strings whiff

I loved tho in the last kombat kast how they said the patch allowed better moveset variety

Fistcuffs is based around that one string though

 

[Zionix]

Fistcuffs is based around that one string though

*d4 and throw

 

[llabslb]

Shit man it got intense in here real quick!!!!

i appreciate the compliments and name drops but i really dont want it to cause animosity at all.
Vs Crathen to me it doesn't matter if its a bad MU if i did not play that MU at the best i could, then to me i got outplayed and cannot blame the MU.

I wont lie these name drops did give me a slight semi.
its my fetish

Can you at least try to downplay a little? Please.

 

[Asodimazze]

Imho what most people don't get is that Cage (no matter who is using him) wins most of his rounds around the opponent mistakes.

Opening people up for good damage can be done only if the opponent is not blocking properly or doesn't know Cage enough; the pressure sucks and the only true damage he gets is from throws. He can't win any poke exchange due to his d3 being absurdly bad (d3 being -9 is ridicolous and almost no one punishes it at the moment), his wake up game is among the weakest in the whole game.

He is the most stamina dependent character in a game where it has become a very scarce resource; I've lost count of how many times I do dash cancels and the opponent lets me press buttons after for free. That stuff shouldn't exist.

I know what is legit and what is not, imho in most matchup A-List lives around gimmicks and unsafe stuff.

 

[Wigy]

*d4 and throw

Groundbreaking tech

I miss 0 on block machine gun d4