Question - A-List Who is still playing Cage?

[Asodimazze]

Who would you say are alist's bad matchups?

I hope this doesn't derail the thread, this is my opinion from what I've seen in this month. I won't write about the matchups I ignore at the moment (because I have never played them after the last patch, nor did I see anyone play said character) like tanya or D'vorah.

Scorpion Hellfire 4-6
Cassie Hollywood 4-6, might be worse
Sub GM 3-7
Tremor, Crystal 3-7/ 4-6 Aftershock
Liu Kang 3-7
Triborg, Sektor 4-6
Predator, HQT 4-6
Kitana, Royal Storm 4-6, might be worse
Kano Cutthroat, 4-6
Mileena, Piercing 4-6

And there are surely others, I just didn't play against every character or have the experience to judge everything.

 

[jaylee777]

I hope this doesn't derail the thread, this is my opinion from what I've seen in this month. I won't write about the matchups I ignore at the moment (because I have never played them after the last patch, nor did I see anyone play said character) like tanya or D'vorah.

Scorpion Hellfire 4-6
Cassie Hollywood 4-6, might be worse
Sub GM 3-7
Tremor, Crystal 3-7/ 4-6 Aftershock
Liu Kang 3-7
Triborg, Sektor 4-6
Predator, HQT 4-6
Kitana, Royal Storm 4-6, might be worse
Kano Cutthroat, 4-6
Mileena, Piercing 4-6

And there are surely others, I just didn't play against every character or have the experience to judge everything.

Yeah this is probably getting off topic, but here is my opinion on some of these matchups:

Grandmaster - Of course SD is better. I refuse to play this mu with alist. Sd is still 4-6 tho
Liu Kang - I personally like SD vs liu kang. I think alist is the worst of the 3 in this mu cause you often need to use stamina to run in and alist needs his stamina.
Sektor - I dont think this mu is that bad personally. Just have to play very patient. Johnny has an answer for almost everything sektor does. I've played cossner a few times and didnt feel like I was playing a losing mu.
HQT - I like fisticuffs in this mu cause he isnt so stamina reliant like alist. If you get him in the corner with any johnny variation its kinda ggs, but if you dont it will be a hard time.
Kitana - I think assassin may beat johnny worse than royal storm. The fact that johnny cant consistently anti air her makes this very hard. And her annoying hitbox

For the other characters you mentioned, I completely agree with you. I think you should also play the other 2 variations for some matchups.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Footwurk still does, we finished playing not long ago.

 

[ismael4790]

Against all the top players in Europe... The most recent tournament he entered, he only lost to Crathen's Sub (one of his worst match ups). He actually beat the winner of that tournament (Happypow) pretty convincingly the next day in casuals.

I don't remember speaking about SD btw...

Well, Pig destroyed people in esl season 1, yet Balanced and Possessed were crap. So that logic by itself doesn't work to tell if a character is good or not.

About Stunt double, it lost everything that made the variation shine, except the htb (and now the new gap gives some options to people there). Mimic shadowkick is only +2 on block when it was double digits plus before, making some blockstrings possible that gave him respect, that is gone. Ex mimic rising shadow has a gap, his ex forceball got damage reduction for no reason. Also, and this is probably one of the most remarkable points, mimic shadowkick does not combo in the corner anymore, for absolutely no reason. This would make sense for the armored version, but not for the regular one. One of the few things that saves the variation is that it has managed to keep a mid armor wakeup unlike the others, but overall, it is much worse than before, no doubt.

About the viability of A-List, I don't main the variation, so no idea. A-Listers will definitely have to relearn the cancels, so time will tell. But not having a mid armor wakeup hurts him, same as happens with fisticuffs. The character has not such a good pressure now to justify him being so free on the ground.

 

[IrishMantis]

Cage is mid tier IMO

still pretty solid you have to work with him to win now
you cannot just pick up and play this char.
which i like

the annoying thing with him is when shit whiffs like 114 and Ex fireballs and you get punished from what should be guaranteed .
but hay i have to deal with it.

but hes pretty solid and can definitely do really well in a tourney with solid fundamentals like Cassie can and with the right Bracketology even win.
throw in a good pocket char and you good to go.

Alist is still the best variation
then Fisti

then SD, SD is the weakest link he is still viable and is the better choice vs GM but if you wanna play Cage competitively Alist is still his best.

My SD twin agrees with me @Dja_Homies .

honestly i quite like this Cage, less braindead Ex Nutpunching their way to victory
but he is in a lot less of a place then he use to be and i still think people are not hurting his weakness enough such as when he has no stamina or when he dash cancels which is relatively punishable.

TL;DR

Cage is mid tier which is good in since the patch)
He is still really solid but you have to put in the work in

 

[crosstalk]

I only play this game for fun at this point, not competitively anymore like I used to with MK9. But I agree, playing with Cage in this current state is an uphill battle. Why bother when you can just turn your brain off and play a top tier. Scream character loyalty all you want but at the end of the day, the smartest players pick the best characters.

 

[rubmytaco]

Well, Pig destroyed people in esl season 1, yet Balanced and Possessed were crap. So that logic by itself doesn't work to tell if a character is good or not.

About Stunt double, it lost everything that made the variation shine, except the htb (and now the new gap gives some options to people there). Mimic shadowkick is only +2 on block when it was double digits plus before, making some blockstrings possible that gave him respect, that is gone. Ex mimic rising shadow has a gap, his ex forceball got damage reduction for no reason. Also, and this is probably one of the most remarkable points, mimic shadowkick does not combo in the corner anymore, for absolutely no reason. This would make sense for the armored version, but not for the regular one. One of the few things that saves the variation is that it has managed to keep a mid armor wakeup unlike the others, but overall, it is much worse than before, no doubt.

About the viability of A-List, I don't main the variation, so no idea. A-Listers will definitely have to relearn the cancels, so time will tell. But not having a mid armor wakeup hurts him, same as happens with fisticuffs. The character has not such a good pressure now to justify him being so free on the ground.

You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. All I said was that Mantis makes Johnny work just fine.

 

[Gofer_MK]

Calm yourself there you smug little boy.

Trying to have a discussion here.

I've not kept up with mantis or much of the competitive scene closely as i've had a busy few months.

That doesnt prove anything.

@IrishMantis

Wana chime in here man?

Feel free to blow me up, genuinely curious, i feel jc is solidly mid tier now and kang beats him in just about every department.

How you finding cage.

IrishMantis had a fantastic run at AFK Tournament with A-list. Check it out, the whole tournament was awesome.

 

[Tweedy]

Mantis probably wins that tournament if he has a legit counter to grandmaster.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

Mantis probably wins that tournament if he has a legit counter to grandmaster.

Just my opinion, though.

Alright and what about the person who actually won the tournament? Nice just sidestepping the best nimble reptile in the game who won against a bad match up lol

 

[Tweedy]

Alright and what about the person who actually won the tournament? Nice just sidestepping the best nimble reptile in the game who won against a bad match up lol

I said it's just my opinion.

Crathen is my team mate and Mantis is not. I mean no disrespect with my opinion, I just feel like if Mantis stopped shooting himself in the foot and picked up Lasher/Possessed for Sub, he would have won.

What are you gonna do about my opinion? You gonna do something? Nope.

 

[ismael4790]

You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. All I said was that Mantis makes Johnny work just fine.

I know, all I'm pointing out is that this fact has no direct relation with where the character position is now (gave the example of Pig) and seems obvious that your assertion was related with that.

Is like if I said prepatch A-List could have been not good because virtually nobody made it "work fine" by winning relevant tournaments with him.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

A-list is ok. Nothing to cry nerf about and nothing to shout about either.in my opinion he is a meh character at the mo. Looks like his old age caught up with him this recent patch.

But in mkx life we have all seen the correlation between top 8 placing in tournaments with top 10 characters in the game.

In my opinion if your going to a tournament and don't give yourself as much advantage as possible then your not really that serious about winning.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

I said it's just my opinion.

Crathen is my team mate and Mantis is not. I mean no disrespect with my opinion, I just feel like if Mantis stopped shooting himself in the foot and picked up Lasher/Possessed for Sub, he would have won.

What are you gonna do about my opinion? You gonna do something? Nope.

Wow so defensive recently ey hehe

So mantis would have won against crathen or would have won the tournament?
What are you gonna do about my opinion about your opinion?

 

[llabslb]

Let's be happy the character is viable. Damn.

 

[Gofer_MK]

Well, Pig destroyed people in esl season 1, yet Balanced and Possessed were crap. So that logic by itself doesn't work to tell if a character is good or not.

I think it is kind of unfair to compare both tournaments, looking on the time in which they took place. But that is just me. Both Pig and IrishM outplayed their opponents that is for sure.

 

[ismael4790]

I think it is kind of unfair to compare both tournaments, looking on the time in which they took place. But that is just me. Both Pig and IrishM outplayed their opponents that is for sure.

Yeah, different eras, but it's just an example, to show that certain tournament success/lack of it does not necessarily lead to "this character is good/bad", which is a logic many people use. One has to look at the tools of the character in comparison to the rest too.

 

[Saltea Mike]

Cage is mid tier IMO

still pretty solid you have to work with him to win now
you cannot just pick up and play this char.
which i like

the annoying thing with him is when shit whiffs like 114 and Ex fireballs and you get punished from what should be guaranteed .
but hay i have to deal with it.

but hes pretty solid and can definitely do really well in a tourney with solid fundamentals like Cassie can and with the right Bracketology even win.
throw in a good pocket char and you good to go.

Alist is still the best variation
then Fisti

then SD, SD is the weakest link he is still viable and is the better choice vs GM but if you wanna play Cage competitively Alist is still his best.

My SD twin agrees with me @Dja_Homies .

honestly i quite like this Cage, less braindead Ex Nutpunching their way to victory
but he is in a lot less of a place then he use to be and i still think people are not hurting his weakness enough such as when he has no stamina or when he dash cancels which is relatively punishable.

TL;DR

Cage is mid tier which is good in since the patch)
He is still really solid but you have to put in the work in

Fookin' shoit.

I still will be playing a-list, sd. Maybe fisti if I force myself to practise him a little and get to know this variation better. Also have a bloodgod pocket just because he was my go-to plan from the start.

Not thinking about changing him anytime soon.

 

[M.D.]

Is grandmaster still in the game?

a) Yes -> Nobody is playing Cage
b) No -> Nobody is playing Cage

 

[rubmytaco]

Calm yourself there you smug little boy.

Trying to have a discussion here.

I've not kept up with mantis or much of the competitive scene closely as i've had a busy few months.

That doesnt prove anything.

@IrishMantis

Wana chime in here man?

Feel free to blow me up, genuinely curious, i feel jc is solidly mid tier now and kang beats him in just about every department.

How you finding cage.

No you need to calm yourself. If you don't even pay enough attention to what's going on with these players, you shouldn't even be trying to correct me. You were also putting words in my mouth, so please check yourself.

 

[rubmytaco]

Alright and what about the person who actually won the tournament? Nice just sidestepping the best nimble reptile in the game who won against a bad match up lol

If Mantis would've played Happypow in grand finals instead of Crathen, I'm pretty sure Mantis would've took the tournament. It was on my very own couch that Mantis and Happypow played the next day and the final score was convincingly in Mantis' favor.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

If Mantis would've played Happypow in grand finals instead of Crathen, I'm pretty sure Mantis would've took the tournament. It was on my very own couch that Mantis and Happypow played the next day and the final score was convincingly in Mantis' favor.

I hear you but i disagree.
Happy-pow had already won the tournament so there is something to be said about him not really playing with as much vigour has he would have if it was serious. Secondly he is native to XBOX one not PS4 and still says he is trying to get used to the pad.

Thirdly it is on the day that counts - The tournament results are what is. Happy pow had to deal with exactly the same kind of situation that irish had to- play against a bad match up. I will grant reptile has more tools but still he won that battle and Irish couldn't deliver so.... in other words you can beat sonic fox or who ever else you want in casuals but if tournament nerves or what ever other reason stops you from getting those same results in the tournament where there's money on the table then it means nothing.

Happy pow won that tournament fair and square. Its like saying oh Usain bolt won that Olympic race but if this other guy who beat him in the heats convincingly had only been Jamaican too then he would have won.

 

[Wigy]

No you need to calm yourself. If you don't even pay enough attention to what's going on with these players, you shouldn't even be trying to correct me. You were also putting words in my mouth, so please check yourself.

I keep up with what the cage community has been saying including mantis metroid xarakamaka etc as well as having played cage since day one, and seeing the difference.

Do you even play the character?

I was trying to have a discussion and you immediately get butthurt and condescending.

Remember that long standing thing that everyonnnnee says, tourament results =/= tier list.

Unless you play the character dont speak to me like the arbiter of johnny cage knowledge.

 

[rubmytaco]

I hear you but i disagree.
Happy-pow had already won the tournament so there is something to be said about him not really playing with as much vigour has he would have if it was serious. Secondly he is native to XBOX one not PS4 and still says he is trying to get used to the pad.

Thirdly it is on the day that counts - The tournament results are what is. Happy pow had to deal with exactly the same kind of situation that irish had to- play against a bad match up. I will grant reptile has more tools but still he won that battle and Irish couldn't deliver so.... in other words you can beat sonic fox or who ever else you want in casuals but if tournament nerves or what ever other reason stops you from getting those same results in the tournament where there's money on the table then it means nothing.

Happy pow won that tournament fair and square. Its like saying oh Usain bolt won that Olympic race but if this other guy who beat him in the heats convincingly had only been Jamaican too then he would have won.

You're overthinking this... It's purely hypothetical. However I disagree with a few of your points.

1) Tournament vigour can have something to do with it, but Irish has a pretty flawless record when it comes to beating Happypow online and when they played the day after, he just wanted to see if offline was the same. Same result. Keep in mind, Happypow also played the rest of us (including Crathen iirc) and beat us just like he did in tournament lol. There's a key difference between us and Irish though; he knows how to deal with the gimmicks really well, which gives him the edge, eventhough Happypow thinks Reptile wins the match up.

2) Being native to any console isn't a big deal at all. He's been playing on PS4 for weeks, if not months. It really doesn't take THAT long to get used to another pad. Having played on PS4/Xbox pads and Hitbox, I can tell you the difference isn't that big.

3) Yes you can always mention this argument, but if you consistently beat someone in casuals, it's a fair assumption that you will win in tournament if you're used to tournament pressure. Of course this isn't true 100% of the time, but winning in tournament when you usually lose any other time is not as common.

 

[rubmytaco]

I keep up with what the cage community has been saying including mantis metroid xarakamaka etc as well as having played cage since day one, and seeing the difference.

Do you even play the character?

I was trying to have a discussion and you immediately get butthurt and condescending.

Remember that long standing thing that everyonnnnee says, tourament results =/= tier list.

Unless you play the character dont speak to me like the arbiter of johnny cage knowledge.

You're making this about something it's not. Go back and actually read before making statements. Also I'd like to see you point out where I'm speaking to you like the arbiter of Johnny Cage knowledge.