Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Who do you think Scorpion beats right now?

[God Confirm]

Well just for your sake, I did cave in and "lab it", and sure enough;

Am I wrong that it can be reacted to with a teleport and legit punish her whilst she is still in recovery frames? The short answer is no. Did I ever at any point claim it was easy? Also no to that.

Then at this point we are at the same level as we have both labbed it, but judging by this response I feel like you've gone in too invested, looking to prove something or something.

If you can pump out a Teleport in 4 frames reacting to a neutral projectile from frame 1, then so be it. I'm confident that it isn't even humanly possible, and with this sort of reaction time, 50/50's literally don't exist in MKX. But if that's you, then that's you man. For the rest of us humans, reacting to it is not at all practical.

But if we're talking about how easy it is to do things at high level play, then I'm pretty sure Johnny Cage would be a lot lower on the tier list than he is currently situated.

I mean, this is Hellfire we are talking about here as well....

 

[Tweedy]

Unless you're online and the connection is considerably butt, then yes...


Both. The OP does kinda suggest that we don't take variation specifics into account lol.

That said, Ethereal may have a few aces in the hole that remain to be seen.

To be fair Strykie you did tell me that you can react and punish with teleport.

 

[STRYKIE]

Then at this point we are at the same level as we have both labbed it, but judging by this response I feel like you've gone in too invested, looking to prove something or something.

If you can pump out a Teleport in 4 frames reacting to a neutral projectile from frame 1, then so be it. I'm confident that it isn't even humanly possible, and with this sort of reaction time, 50/50's literally don't exist in MKX. But if that's you, then that's you man. For the rest of us humans, reacting to it is not at all practical.


I mean, this is Hellfire we are talking about here as well....

Reacting to a projectile in scenarios where you'd be looking for a projectile and it's trajectory, especially considering sai doesn't travel as fast as say, Cybernetic's knife, is considerably different than trying to distinguish 2 different animations in close quarters.

To be fair Strykie you did tell me that you can react and punish with teleport.

Didn't say I didn't....

 

[God Confirm]

Reacting to a projectile in scenarios where you'd be looking for a projectile and it's trajectory, especially considering sai doesn't travel as fast as say, Cybernetic's knife, is considerably different than trying to distinguish 2 different animations in close quarters.



Didn't say I didn't....

how is this not looking for multiple separate animations? There's a million things they can do in the neutral that isn't just blocking, including just taking a step or two backwards, and you have under 4 frames to distinguish this as this a projectile and get that TP out, or else you aren't reacting to the projectile at all, you are just reacting to them letting go of block.

 

[STRYKIE]

how is this not looking for multiple separate animations? There's a million things they can do in the neutral that isn't just blocking, including just taking a step or two backwards, and you have under 4 frames to distinguish this as this a projectile and get that TP out, or else you aren't reacting to the projectile at all, you are just reacting to them letting go of block.

Oh IDK, the sudden luminous pink glow that materializes from her hand that doesn't look like anything else?

Where are you getting this "4 frame window" figure from by the way?

 

[God Confirm]

Oh IDK, the sudden luminous pink glow that materializes from her hand that doesn't look like anything else?

Where are you getting this "4 frame window" figure from by the way?

I checked the frames


Sub's Overhead animation start up doesn't look like anything else he has, and its like a 19f start up, and its still a 50/50, so I just genuinely don't understand this, how Mileenas high sai is reactable with TP. It hasn't been for the whole of MKX .

Let's just agree to disagree because this is going nowhere. If you can react within 3-4 frames and execute a TP you can punish with it. If this isn't practical for you, then you can't do it.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I wasn't able to react to it when I tried. Also @God Confirm SZ's B2 is 17 frames

 

[STRYKIE]

I checked the frames


Sub's Overhead animation start up doesn't look like anything else he has, and its like a 19f start up, and its still a 50/50, so I just genuinely don't understand this, how Mileenas high sai is reactable with TP. It hasn't been for the whole of MKX .

Let's just agree to disagree because this is going nowhere. If you can react within 3-4 frames and execute a TP you can punish with it. If this isn't practical for you, then you can't do it.

I can agree to disagree, if anyone else doesn't feel comfortable doing it then I'm not going to force them to do so.

 

[God Confirm]

I wasn't able to react to it when I tried. Also @God Confirm SZ's B2 is 17 frames

yep, thats totally what I said

*goes back and edits*

Just kidding, thanks man

 

[IrishMantis]

I'd say SD vs HF 6-4 to SD

And maybe 5-5 to Ninjistu could be in SD favour

 

[Ze Dingo]

I'd say SD vs HF 6-4 to SD

And maybe 5-5 to Ninjistu could be in SD favour

Disagree, the lack of reliable armour severely dents Scorpion against Johnny Cage. I feel it's a damn near 7-3 vs A List and a definite 6-4 vs Stunt Double.

 

[Tweedy]

Is EX takedown really that bad?

I like it more than Kotal's EX overhead vs pressure characters, because it doesn't get broken.

I get that it's risk/reward is bad, but since it has good hit advantage now, I like it.

 

[HuttonMD]

Is EX takedown really that bad?

I like it more than Kotal's EX overhead vs pressure characters, because it doesn't get broken.

I get that it's risk/reward is bad, but since it has good hit advantage now, I like it.

I don't think it's bad it's nice we finally get advantage from it but it's just meh in this game really. You get 15% and a chance to get out of corner and some oki and if blocked full combo which isn't different then most armored moves in the game so that not a big deal

If you block low on wake up you kill both amored options for scorpion I actually find wake up grab works alot because ppl always are waiting for the teleports which then opens up more chances to get them pressing buttons on my WU later

 

[OutworldKeith]

Is EX takedown really that bad?

I like it more than Kotal's EX overhead vs pressure characters, because it doesn't get broken.

I get that it's risk/reward is bad, but since it has good hit advantage now, I like it.

It works for what it's intended for vs pressure. It's just a lot of other characters get full punishment for using a bar. We get a KD. Scorp's low pokes are some of the best though.

 

[Phosferrax]

Is EX takedown really that bad?

I like it more than Kotal's EX overhead vs pressure characters, because it doesn't get broken.

I get that it's risk/reward is bad, but since it has good hit advantage now, I like it.

It isn't bad for the idea behind it as a reversal.

But when you compare it to most of the armour in this game it is bad.

 

[t0mtas]

How can scorpion punish mileenas teleport guaranteed?

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

Probably the worst on whiff armor in the game, ppl can cross up with a move,dash forward and still punish you..... At least on whiff it should have been safer
And no the way to punish both armor moves is njp or cross jump, wake up d2 is actually your best bet vs this option, grab will just be punished as well

 

[Espio]

Kitana and Goro are pretty major 5-5's for Ninjitsu Scorpion I would say (Dragon Fangs & Assassin in particular) It's just pretty honest footsie/spacing battles overall.

Ninjitsu Scorpion is one of the least annoying/stressful match ups in this game, it is very fun lol.

 

[OutworldKeith]

How can scorpion punish mileenas teleport guaranteed?

Dash forward after he blocks it (standing or crouching) and punish with 214 or 114.

 

[Matix218]

How can scorpion punish mileenas teleport guaranteed?

Go to training mode against mileena. Record her doing tekeport, and teleport~air sai (record the latter at several different timings ranging from instant sai to a few frames of delay on the sai).

Then once you have this recorded, practice blocking the teleport, then immediately after blocking it do a forward dash then input 214 on her recovery. Regardless of the timing of the air sai the forward dash will go through it. The combo I use is 214~teleport, b3~spear (the ender will depend on if you are using hellfire or ninjutsu).

 

[Tweedy]

It isn't bad for the idea behind it as a reversal.

But when you compare it to most of the armour in this game it is bad.

I can't help but disagree. The problem with cross overs and NJPs is shared by many armored moves in the game, and with the added hit advantage + inability to be broken easily, I like it. Far from bad imo.

 

[JINAMOUNAINAI]

Go to training mode against mileena. Record her doing tekeport, and teleport~air sai (record the latter at several different timings ranging from instant sai to a few frames of delay on the sai).

Then once you have this recorded, practice blocking the teleport, then immediately after blocking it do a forward dash then input 214 on her recovery. Regardless of the timing of the air sai the forward dash will go through it. The combo I use is 214~teleport, b3~spear (the ender will depend on if you are using hellfire or ninjutsu).

What if she lets say....doesnt throw a sai?

 

[Matix218]

What if she lets say....doesnt throw a sai?

Then she is still on recovery and you get pressure, you just won't catch her airborne for a combo

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think that Ninjustsu beats the Triborgs except maybe Sektor or Smoke could be even. I do feel like he crushes the Cyrax and Cyber Sub-Zero Triborgs in footsies though.

 

[t0mtas]

Then she is still on recovery and you get pressure, you just won't catch her airborne for a combo

Someone said its a guaranteed punish. i dont want pressure after teleport i want a punish. also you can just neutral duck the sai if you make the right guess and then punish