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Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Who do you think Scorpion beats right now?

Matix218

Get over here!
Someone said its a guaranteed punish. i dont want pressure after teleport i want a punish. also you can just neutral duck the sai if you make the right guess and then punish
There is no guaranteed punish. If you use the method I stated you will get full combo if they sai and pressure if they dont. If you think they won't sai just block and stand 3 them in the air for a punish. I like the dash method because it leaves you in good shape either way
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I don't know if d1 teleport can catch Mileena air bourne to convert into full combo (because I don't play Scorpion) but if it works it should be the best punish. Like I said in Tom's salty thread about Mileena telekick air sai, if you can figure out a d1 anti air combo then it's the best way to punish Mileena's cheap shit
 

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
It's still a punish. You guys should really test it out. It's legit.
Well i did honestly, if you dash and she doesnt throw it you dont get a punish, anw if you crouch block the telekick d2 will give you guaranteed damage every time, if you want to get a full combo its a 50/50 if she throws it or not
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Well i did honestly, if you dash and she doesnt throw it you dont get a punish, anw if you crouch block the telekick d2 will give you guaranteed damage every time, if you want to get a full combo its a 50/50 if she throws it or not
What did you try to punish with? S3 should work.

The dash eliminates the 50/50 because he dashed through the Sai.
 

xZoro

War God.
I think one of the Issues with scorps 2 best variations is that they seem to cover the same matchups, and struggIe with the same matchups due to their simiIar styIe of, 'Catch the opponent coming in or pressing a button'
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I think one of the Issues with scorps 2 best variations is that they seem to cover the same matchups, and struggIe with the same matchups due to their simiIar styIe of, 'Catch the opponent coming in or pressing a button'
No way, I don't think any two variations in the game compliment each other as well as Scorps do. Ninjutsu would be the perfect secondary for me, I personally can't do two variations of the one character though
 

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
No way, I don't think any two variations in the game compliment each other as well as Scorps do. Ninjutsu would be the perfect secondary for me, I personally can't do two variations of the one character though
I kind of agree with @xZoro . They both struggle against almost the exact same characters.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I kind of agree with @xZoro . They both struggle against almost the exact same characters.
Ninjutsu does a great job of evening out lost match ups like DVorah and Takeda and the like. I think the two variations compliment each other really well
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Are we still talking about the Sai? I'm at work.

Can someone tell me the start-up frames, active and recovery of Standing Sai Toss and Crouching Sai Toss?
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Are we still talking about the Sai? I'm at work.

Can someone tell me the start-up frames, active and recovery of Standing Sai Toss and Crouching Sai Toss?
Sai:
Startup | 16
Active | 200
Recov. | -168
Block | -11
Hit | 11

Low Sai:
Startup | 14
Active | 200
Recov. | -155
Block | -17
Hit | 7

Added block & hit advantage for reference.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Sai:
Startup | 16
Active | 200
Recov. | -168
Block | -11
Hit | 11

Low Sai:
Startup | 14
Active | 200
Recov. | -155
Block | -17
Hit | 7

Added block & hit advantage for reference.
Unless the frame data is wrong that looks pretty damn reactable if you can punish it before the sai Hits you -168 frames is over 2 seconds of real time recovery, if you can keep your eye out for the Sai you can definitely TP punish it.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Unless the frame data is wrong that looks pretty damn reactable if you can punish it before the sai Hits you -168 frames is over 2 seconds of real time recovery, if you can keep your eye out for the Sai you can definitely TP punish it.
recovery and active frames are extremely inaccurate. It's the exact same frames as Sub-Zero's Iceball, for example. I'm pretty sure it's just placeholder frames for projectiles. Although, can you imagine Sub Zero with an Iceball as fast as Mileena Sai's? :cool:
 

ragnar0kz28

Warrior
I think Hellfire solidly beats Jacqui easy, Raiden, Kitana (every *EDIT: "both" :p * Scorp variation should wreck her), Triborg, Tanya, Kenshi, and thats probably it.

That is however, to be expected. He 5-5's the majority of the cast. I'd say Hellfire's losing match ups are DVorah, Kano, Spectral, and his pupil Takeda. Mileena maybe, not sure if shes bad enough to call a losing MU, but Sai spam is difficult to Teleport through, but maybe I need to level up on this one. What do others think of Mileenas Sai zoning?
You might be playing the wrong kitanas... its even
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Unless the frame data is wrong that looks pretty damn reactable if you can punish it before the sai Hits you -168 frames is over 2 seconds of real time recovery, if you can keep your eye out for the Sai you can definitely TP punish it.
The in-game frame data isn't far off from what I posted originally.
 

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
What did you try to punish with? S3 should work.

The dash eliminates the 50/50 because he dashed through the Sai.
What are you guys talking about? If she doesnt throw sai and you dash not only you dont get a punish, she can roll or d1 you on reaction and you still dont get not even a poke out on time, am i the only one who actually labbed it :( or am i that bad that im missing something....i feel so alone :(
 

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
Unless the frame data is wrong that looks pretty damn reactable if you can punish it before the sai Hits you -168 frames is over 2 seconds of real time recovery, if you can keep your eye out for the Sai you can definitely TP punish it.
Its wrong, in the recovery they count the time the sai is traveling until she can throw another one, not when she can move or no.
anw i went for a mathematical way to figure out reaction time for high sai, its under 20 frames so if you can react to sub zero or kung jin overhead you can go for it, btw the input of tp has to be within the 20 frames
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Don't use the in-game frame data for reference of recovery of projectiles, I assume the game itself calculates it based on how long the projectile itself can hit you for at any point while it's on screen.

For example, the recovery of Shinnok's Dark Beam is listed as something like "-560", the fuck is that supposed to mean? lol
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
What are you guys talking about? If she doesnt throw sai and you dash not only you dont get a punish, she can roll or d1 you on reaction and you still dont get not even a poke out on time, am i the only one who actually labbed it :( or am i that bad that im missing something....i feel so alone :(
How can she do that at -19? Are we on the same page here?
 

JINAMOUNAINAI

He who is on fire is not troubled by the smoke
How can she do that at -19? Are we on the same page here?
We would be if you labbed it first :p
Anw if you block a telekick crouched and dash she not only recovers she is +4
If you block it standing and dash its neutral, again i can be off by 1~2 frames
Either way you dont get a punish
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
We would be if you labbed it first :p
Anw if you block a telekick crouched and dash she not only recovers she is +4
If you block it standing and dash its neutral, again i can be off by 1~2 frames
Either way you dont get a punish
Can't really lab in my current circumstance. What you said still makes no sense. I have my guy testing on my end, so I'll know for sure later on.